Rudeness in the JC: Is it at a ridiculous level?

a_g seems to think the the rules of her classroom should apply in here, where her definition of what is acceptable should be definitive.

I'm realistic enough to know that this probably won't happen, but I don't know why I'm being slammed right and left, called a "pansy" and a "whiner" among other things, for thinking that it should be this way.

Geez, you'd think I'd suggested that we not be able to talk about Star Wars here.

The fact of the matter is the mods usually do hand out warnings for rudeness just for the sake of being rude.

To give them credit, most of them do. However, I have seen some things slide here that shouldn't slide. I have had moderators tell me, "That was rude, but not inflammatory." What's the difference? Where do you draw the line between "rude", which isn't explicitly stated in the TOS, and "hateful," which is?

But know one should be made to respect other people's opinions.

Ummm...why the hell not?

People can disagree. It would be stupid to say they couldn't. But they should disagree respectfully. My father is a right-wing Republican and we agree on practically nothing. However, I respect his viewpoints, and he (usually ) respects mine.

Are we civil human beings here or are we barbaric neandertals?

Just a general statement, if you notice something and you want to bring it to the attention of a mod, please limit it to one mod, maybe two.

I realize that I have done this in the past, not because I wanted a specific answer but because I wanted an answer quickly, and after learning more about how things work around here, I realize that it was a mistake to do so, and I have stopped. The most I PM now is two moderators.

Well, as evidenced here, some people are WAY too thin skinned.

That is your opinion. As has been said in some previous posts, I think it's up to the person who hurt someone's feelings to apologize. It's not up to the person who is supposedly "too thin skinned" to "toughen up" just because someone else feels like being insensitive and dishing out crap.

 

In unrelated news.....sometimes people posting are actually being pansys, whiners, winos, jerks, ignorant, retarded, ridiculous, hypocritical and/or dumb.


Perhaps they should be lied to then?

 

.....sometimes people posting are actually being pansys, whiners, winos, jerks, ignorant, retarded, ridiculous, hypocritical and/or dumb.


Hey! No need to expose me in front of everyone!

 

In unrelated news.....sometimes people posting are actually being pansys, whiners, winos, jerks, ignorant, retarded, ridiculous, hypocritical and/or dumb.

And it's up to you to call them on this for what reason exactly? You have no flaws of your own?

 

So I shouldn't be able to call someone who stole my car a thief because I jaywalked trying to stop him?

 

I think that's a little different, Jim.

Exactly what harm are people doing by posting something that someone else thinks is stupid?

Someone who steals your car is violating your rights. No one who posts something here that you don't like is violating anyone's rights--unless you want to say that "thin-skinned" people are violating your "right" to be rude, and since I don't think anyone has a "right" to be rude, I'll disagree. If you think a post is stupid, skip over it. There is something called "being nice" and "being polite", and it doesn't mean that you go around expressing your opinion whenever you think something is stupid.

If there is no good reason to do something other than "you feel like it", and doing that something would cause someone else's feelings to be hurt, then you shouldn't do it.

 

If there is no good reason to do something other than "you feel like it", and doing that something would cause someone else's feelings to be hurt, then you shouldn't do it.

You can't necessarily know in advance if someone's feelings are going to be hurt. Additionally, the majority of people tend to have a similar standard for what's hurtful and what isn't. If someone is offended by something that doesn't offend most people, that's something to consider.

 

I agree, you don't always know. However, upon finding out, shouldn't the other poster apologize rather than being allowed to say "You're just a pansy"?

 

No, not necessarily.

I think we should be responsible for a reasonable amount of respect and decency. We shouldn't have to go much beyond that.

 

I don't expect moderators to wave a ruler and say "Apologize now."

However, I get really confused when I get a message that says "That post was rude but not inflammatory." What's the difference? And I certainly think it is both rude and inflammatory--"hateful" under the TOS definition--when posters call other posters wusses, pansies, stupid, ignorant, whiners, winos, retarded, ridiculous, hypocritical, or dumb.

How is it not?

I'm 32 years old--older by far than the average poster here. I've put up with a lot of crap in my life and I am as thick-skinned as I'm going to get. It's not like I cry over stuff I see here--I just get disgusted by it because I see people treating total strangers like crap for no reason. That's what I don't understand--seeing more hateful attitudes among strangers on the Internet than I see in RL among people who know and don't like each other. And I certainly don't understand when people's "right" to be rude is supported. I understand that it's subjective and hard to moderate sometimes, however, when people are allowed to call each other pansies, stupid, retarded, etc. just because they feel like it, something is wrong. We have lost sight of common decency.

 

However, I get really confused when I get a message that says "That post was rude but not inflammatory." What's the difference? And I certainly think it is both rude and inflammatory--"hateful" under the TOS definition--when posters call other posters wusses, pansies, stupid, ignorant, whiners, winos, retarded, ridiculous, hypocritical, or dumb.

There is a very big difference, and that is the difference of probable intent.

Rude simply means that it is lacking in courtesy or manners. Hateful means that it is done with maklice or spite. Inflammatory means that it is done with the purpose of inciting a reaction or worsening a conflict.

Rude is something that can change from one culture to the next (for example, burping after a meal is rude in some cultures, but is a high compliment in others). As a rule, we can't moderate someone for being rude.

However, there are some people who will enter a thread with the intent to cause problems, or will post things that they know will offend many people. One example of this would be someone coming into a thread in the Senate and calling everyone they disagree with a bigot. They may be using the term in its most strict dictionary definition, but it is still presenting it in a manner designed to get a rise out of others.

In the same way, a person can enter a thread with the intent to attack one person. At that point, they are acting with malice and are crossing the line into hateful. However, that is they key: it is a comment directed at the person.

When it is directed at the ideas or contents of a post, it is far more likely to be either rude or inflammatory. For the most part, we only step in for the latter.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Sorry Cheri

 

when posters call other posters wusses, pansies, stupid, ignorant, whiners, winos, retarded, ridiculous, hypocritical, or dumb.

I will ask you for the second time, can you please post some examples of where this has happened and nothing was done. You are throwing around wild generalizations with no proof whatsoever.

 

Bane: There are three or four examples just in this thread, especially a couple of pages back. Take a look. One poster suggested that posters should be allowed to call into question the intelligence of other posters, and if the other posters don't like it, too ******* (Profanity needs to be fully obscured) bad. Another user kept making snarky comments about "crayons", insinuating that I must still be in kindergarten.

There was also a thread in the Senate Floor on abortion sometime back, in which a poster shared her own experience about considering abortion after she found herself pregnant at the same time that her boyfriend left her. This poster was told very callously that she was irresponsible.

I have also been told in 3SA to "Grow up or get out." (This is by someone who is younger than I am, BTW.) I reported it to a moderator, and nothing was done--that was my general experience in 3SA, and I have since stopped posting there. (These days I only use this forum for the Senate Floor, Fan Fiction, my FanForce, and occasionally the YJCC--for the most part I take my Star Wars conversations to other sites where people are more civil.) And rude comments were made about how women who like Anakin Skywalker as a character have no brains and were just watching the movie to stare at Hayden Christensen. More specifically, I disagreed with a user on a point and the user said, "Did you actually watch AOTC or were you just staring at Hayden?"

 

anakin_girl, I mean this with all due respect. But when I see you posting in AotC and it's about Anakin or anything that will remotely develop into a nice debate, I don't post in, near, or around you because I feel that no matter what it will offend you or someone's going to offend you. Sorry, but that's what you've developed into in my mind. I have seen this in AotC, the 3SA, Fan Fic, and Comms. I've never really come across this before where I am hesitant to post.

As a mod, I want to pull out all the Tusken slaughter threads, anything that talks about Anakin, any thread where I know the opinion is opposite of yours, etc... Am I wrong to feel this way? If I addressed all the things you bring up and got rid of the folks and/or posts you see as rude or condescending, there would be four people left on the boards all posting in the Hayden and Anakin appreciation thread.

 

I have since stopped posting there.

It's for the best, really.

 

Really, Grilled. I tend to agree with you because I thoroughly enjoy posting on other message boards about Star Wars where people are not throwing excrement or telling people to leave, but somehow I don't think this is your reasoning.

Interesting that you seem to think I'm the problem when I post on several other SW message boards and have never had the problems with rudeness there that I have had here. If I were the problem, I think it would be evident everywhere.

Sape: While I have admitted to being overzealous at some points--I admitted that on this thread a few pages back--I don't understand how you expect me not to get offended by something like "Grow up or get out."

Debate is cool, but attacking the debater, with "Did you see the movie or were you just staring a Hayden?" is not.

 

Grow up and get out tend to get moderated out unless we miss it. But I don't even know how to post with you. I look at what I write and I can almost guess how it will offend you. You've made me have to think that way.

Debate is cool, but attacking the debater, with "Did you see the movie or were you just staring a Hayden?" is not.

Within the context of a debate, that's fine. You act as though your very soul and entire being has been torn to shreds.

 

I used that example because I reported it to one of the 3SA moderators--I don't remember which one--and it was not edited out, in fact, I'm not even sure my PM was answered.

As far as what else you've mentioned--you shouldn't have to go over your posts like that, I agree. And I'll say this for you, at least you care whether or not you offend--I feel like a lot of people around here don't, namely the folks who have posted in this thread about how people are thin-skinned whiny pansies. And yes, I get overzealous on the Anakin arguments--I admit that, and I am working on it. This is one reason I stay out of the movie forums for the most part--I don't like the posting style of some folks there even when they aren't doing anything against the TOS, because I feel like they are being bloodthirsty and uncompassionate. It's not worth my getting upset over--there are more important things in life. I enjoy discussing the movies, but I do it on other sites.

And "Did you watch the movie or were you just staring at Hayden?" is not against the TOS, but geez...can the poster not find a less rude way to make his/her point rather than insinuating that I'm a superficial airhead?

 

You tell us again and again you're 32, thick-skinned, and all that. But the thread is basically you vs the entire politeness level of the JC implying that you may not be as thick-skinned as you believe.

 

I didn't say I was thick-skinned, I said I was as thick-skinned as I was going to get. I'm not going to "develop a thicker skin" just because someone else feels they have a God-given right to be rude. I don't think it should be up to me to do that.

And no, I don't have a tough time in real life. I have found people in RL to be much nicer than they have been here. I have found people on other message boards, with a few exceptions, to be much nicer than they are here.

What I don't understand is, why is it that when someone is rude to me, it's my problem rather than the problem of the person being rude? Why is it up to the offended to stop being offended rather than up to the offender to stop offending?

And actually it isn't "me against the entire rudeness level of the JC". I've gotten PMs from people who commended the work I'm doing in this thread, but I think they're afraid to speak up here for fear of being called a "pansy" or a "whiner" themselves (and no, I'm not referring to you). I told them I thought my posts here were probably fruitless but I'm continuing to try as a matter of principle.

 

Because we have moderators from around the world, all different backgrounds, opinions, and viewpoints who look at the posts and don't see the rudeness you claim time and time again. Sometimes you might want to sit back and think, "Is it me? Am I the one who might be wrong?" It's an external locus of control, the belief that everything is happening to you or negative things are being done to you and there's little you can do but suffer. I think you're treated about how everyone else gets treated, myself included.

 

Because we have moderators from around the world, all different backgrounds, opinions, and viewpoints who look at the posts and don't see the rudeness you claim time and time again. Sometimes you might want to sit back and think, "Is it me? Am I the one who might be wrong?"

I will concede here. This is what I have learned from this thread as well as from some PM conversations I had with various folks long before this thread was ever started.

It may or may not be helpful to have some sort of criteria for what constitutes rudeness and what constitutes hatefulness or harassment, the former not being against the TOS and the latter being. But I don't know if this can be done.

 

Though it may not be written, our continual agreement implies we understand the upper and lower levels of rudeness.

 

Simple truth: people on these boards will be rude. There are simply too many people with too many different personality types and backgrounds for this not to be the case.

If someone thinks rude behavior that is being projected at them is in violation of the TOS, they should check with that forum's mod and let the mod handle it. If someone is the subject of rude behavior and they respond in kind, they should note that not only have they put themselves on that person's level, but they, too, could be the subject of mod intervention. When I come into a thread and see two people fighting, I take the same action against both parties regardless of who was rude first, and I know I am not the only mod that does this.