Senate Russia: its impact on the world, its invasion of Ukraine, and its future

This isn't happening. There is no genocide against the Uyghurs.

 

I think that’s a bit far. I don’t like China. But I don’t think they are the nazis either. Yes they are trying to get rid of an ethnic population, but they don’t have death camps as far as I am aware. China is pretty low on nations in all of history I would like to lead the world, but they aren’t that low.

 

What you describe is an attempted genocide. You don’t need 20th-century style death camps to commit genocide. Mass detentions, re-education camps, forced sterilization. This is a clear attempt to wipe out an entire group of people. And that’s the definition of a genocide.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037.amp

 

Oh no I still think it’s genocide, I just don’t think it’s as bad as the Nazis. It’s still really ****ing terrible. But at the very least they are alive.

 

When France does re-education camps for Muslims that's okay, but China's are genocide meant to eliminate the ENTIRE race?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/france-fights-terror-with-re-education-camps-plan-7wg9vrrgd

 

Call me old-fashioned, but still think that genocide is genocide. We can't even be sure we know just how far they may have gone. This is a government that for the longest time limited the number of children people could have - resulting in the deaths of millions of children because so many people preferred baby boys....

 

And you say I’m “subject” to propaganda? What do you base this statement on?

I didn’t condone this French policy in 2016 (which died a quick death), but let’s dispense right away with the equivalency by asking a few basic questions. Is France detaining nearly the entirety of its Muslim population for no reason other than that they’re Muslim, placing them in re-education camps, and forcibly sterilizing Muslim women?

No, of course not. In fact, this is what happened to that completely ill-advised French policy:

The first camp opened in September 2016 in Beaumont-en-Véron, situated within the Château de Pontourny, an 18th-century manor in central France. The camp had a total capacity of 25 people, while at its peak housed 9 participants. According to France 24, the first camp was shut down on August 2017 after concerns from the local community, as well as criticism of the admissions criteria, which specified volunteer participants who had not committed terror offences. Following these concerns, a Senate committee deemed the programme “a complete fiasco”, resulting in the camp's shutdown.

 

. . , why is this in the Russia thread?

As for this plan, I think it would be an excellent alternative to jail for people who have actually be convicted of verifiable and substantive crimes. The closer it gets to broad dragnet of "anyone who happens to be Muslim" the more objectionable it would be. Which is also, as I understand, most of the reason people take exception to the Chinese programs.

 

1) The entire Uygher population doesn't live in camps.

2) is not re-education preferable to the western method of just bombing them?

You absolutely are subject to western propaganda about this. Adrian Zenz and his cohorts at their think tanks are manufacturing consent for conflict with China.

 

Absolutely love how you quote me to ask what this is doing in the Russia thread instead of the people who posted before me talking about this.

Literally plain for everybody to see how you single me out for no reason.

 

Anyone who professes any love for China has not spent a day of their life living under an authoritarian regime. Whether it be China, Russia, Cuba or North Korea - living under authoritarianism is literally the worst thing on Earth

 

I grew up in Pakistan

 

Well we first talked about who would be preferable as the global leader and I said I would prefer America over Russia or China and than somehow we got to Muslims.

 

@Lord Vivec : I am not trying to single you out. I just read and responded to the most recent post in the thread without back-reading. it was lazy but genuine bewilderment. Regardless, as you well know, I take threads off topic all the time, so I'm not going to raise that as a criticism,

 

NY Times - Britain Says Moscow Is Plotting to Install a Pro-Russian Leader in Ukraine
In a highly unusual public statement, backed by U.S. officials, London named the putative head of a potential puppet government but few other details.

After being told for months to get out of Afghanistan, a lot of people still waited until the last minute or past the last minute so hopefully there's a lesson that's been learned by Americans in Ukraine.

 

If they are leaving it means America at least truly thinks Russia will invade

 

Or maybe it's about sending a message

 

The message is America thinks Kyiv will fall so fast they should leave now

 

Malcolm Nance had another take on it

 

Because Uyghurs are Muslims that are being ethnically cleansed in China. It’s relevant to a discussion of whether or not we can look to its government for global leadership.

As for Russia, the old saying holds: when an authoritarian tells you what they intend to do, believe them.

 

But, why? The Chinese are no less capitalist than the West, no less brutal and no less arrogant. You’re trading one bully for another with no benefit whatsoever.

@Lordban I’m skeptical of China ever being a hyper power or surpassing a unified western bloc. It’s also got India to worry about and hasn’t exactly endeared itself to any neighbours besides North Korea.

 

And, you know, a touch more…authoritarian. Which I think should matter, despite authoritarianism being a rising fad at the moment.

 

This harkens back to my thing about how communism doesn't get built overnight. The economic phase China is in right now is on the path towards communism. The west is not.

 

Vivec is somewhat authoritarian so I don’t think pointing that out has much use.

Do you really believe this though? China is already class stratified. What makes you think that in decades, or centuries, when China has developed to the point where communism is ‘viable’ that they’d be any more willing to give up their place than in the West?