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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate Russia: its impact on the world, its invasion of Ukraine, and its future

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    I mean, if 9 years is the normal sentence for possession of cannabis in Russia, then fine. If not, I'm gonna have to say it's political.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
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  2. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    doesn't change that i don't think anyone should receive such a punishment for possessing some small amount of a drug substance
     
  3. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    On her sentence. Yes it sucks. But she brought that there after going to Russia several times. No way in hell did she not know it was illegal in Russia.

    my other main problem is if the US wants to get her back they also need to free everyone in the US with a charge involving the possession of weed in some form or another.

    Also of note no way in hell would The American government try as fast as they did her to get her out if she wasn’t famous at all. Not that she really was all that famous before this.

    she should be glad that she was not idiotic enough to bring that **** to Singapore. I can both feel bad for her and think she is dumb.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  4. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    which they should do... can't Biden just use his pen? sorry i've went backwards in age and look at these matters like a little kid again, as in i feel like humans are good about creating rules upon rules about why we always have to make everyone suffer as much as possible... the US could release people held for possessing drugs from its prisons WHILE it demands Russia release Griner. this whole war on drugs things was about torturing POC and poor people, so it doesn't really have any merits to it anyway.
     
  5. Lordban

    Lordban Isildur's Bane star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2000
    And different cultures and different countries think otherwise. Embracing multiculturalism means accepting that what one considers acceptable is not necessarily acceptable in a different culture.
     
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  6. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Yea they should do it anyway. For all drugs. But my main point is it’s weird for the US to try to get her back when she not only broke the law in Russia but broke the federal law in America or at least tried to.
     
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  7. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Yeah, it's absurd. If Biden did do that, it would be considered a great accomplishment and perhaps his legacy. I have a feeling that the next president (if a Democrat) will be the one who brings about reform in this area. While I still feel cynical about the Republicans and their antidemocratic b.s., this anti-abortion **** has galvanized Democrats in places like Kansas.

    As for Putin, I still can't get over how he was comparing his situation to people being mad about JK Rowling. But Rowling brought this on herself. One reason I refused to see the third Fantastic Beasts movie, aside from the actors her people chose to cast in this one. Rowling may not like Putin, but she made her own bed. That's what happens when a neoliberal like herself aligns herself with the far-right without understanding it.
     
  8. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    there are some penalties surely that can't be defended by it being a different culture... some cultures have harsh punishments against homosexuality for instance. to me it seems more like a human rights matter. i don't see multiculturalism as embracing the worst practices of other cultures, the harshest punishments, and saying that's great, that's how people should be treated.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
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  9. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    I feel fine calling Russia and any other country out who legalizes the possession or consumption of drugs. I think the sale of some drugs should be illegal, but that’s something else.

    I also feel fine calling countries out and other states who ban abortion or restrict womens rights. They would say that’s their culture. I would say **** their culture. If a part of your culture involves throwing people in jail who don’t deserve it and hurting or preventing others from being their best selves I can throw that part of their culture in the trash.

    Russia would say it’s a part of their culture to not allow gay people to be happy. At least their government I don’t have to tolerate that.
     
  10. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    that’s my understanding, and essentially what I think should happen on the issue
     
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  11. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    My other issue is I don't know how much every national govt even fully represents the cultures within its borders... do the Russian laws really represent the Russian people and the cultures within Russia? Or are some of them there to represent a narrow group of people in power and control people so they will always have less power? It just seems when there are rules like 9 years in prison for possessing a gram of a drug substance, it's an abuse of any justice system, and who knows maybe if they could freely vote on it and say their real opinions the Russian people would agree that's a reasonable punishment... but then there's another problem... I think that once a govt/economic system becomes really brutal the people start to believe that the unreasonable and far too harsh penalties it enacts for minor offenses are a norm and somehow justified because that's how it's been for a while and there's a lot of stigma attached to the offense or it's part of a broader mythology used to justify punishments that don't fit the crimes or to justify determinations of criminalizing reasonably harmless activities... It's govts trying to keep a tight leash on the masses and that's not protecting cultures, that's just controlling people. This is a world in which people like Putin are not charged with crimes for killing thousands or millions of people but one athlete with 1 gram of weed gets 9 years. The matter in which the powerful can get away with actual murder while individual citizens receive harsh punishments for small offenses transcends most cultures. And I feel that it goes against human rights because it's a case of the wildly powerful overstepping their bounds driven by instinctive and largely selfish animalistic fears.
     
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  12. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Oh of course. It’s not like “Russian culture” is an actual homogeneous thing. There are different subsets. Same can be said of most.
     
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  13. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    It is true from what I've seen in documentaries. Big country with different ethnicities within.
     
  14. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    The normal sentence for the amount of cannabis she had in her possession is a small three digit fine. She got 9 years in jail. It’s political.
     
  15. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    So they want an arms dealer freed in exchange for their hostage?
     
  16. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Still it’s not worth the arms dealer. I am sure the US has a few dozen spies they can pick from. Do that.
     
  17. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    That was the trade Blinken floated to the press, but the fact they went public rather than negotiating with Russia in confidence makes me think it’s not serious, at least not in the near term. I suspect it’s more a PR effort to let the Democrat base know the White House is “working on it” in anticipation of Griner’s sentencing. I doubt we’ll see her come home until there is a larger diplomatic breakthrough over the war itself.
     
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  18. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    If it's a PR effort, it's not a very good one, because that's a really bad trade even if they don't intend to follow through with it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  19. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Correct. They should be able to at least get a starter and 2 decent draft picks.
     
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  20. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    If a majority of the democratic base knew who that arms dealer was they would also think it was a horrible trade.
     
  21. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    New report on the flow of weapons into Ukraine, this time by CBS. Seems to coincide with the subtle "vibe shift" occurring in Western media as people are starting to wonder when the war will end and what exactly is the plan to get there. Adam Yamaguchi:
    Full investigative report:


    At the end of the film, Yamaguchi asks the gun runner he's been following, isn't there a danger that we're just creating the next insurgency, the next failed state? The gun runner's reply (which is the Western party line): that's why we have to win. Like any great journalism, we have already know the rebuttal from report: does this look like an army that is going to win? Nope. UAF's logistics are shot, they can barely get body armor and basic supplies to their soldiers, forget about thousands of pounds of ammunition per day necessary to compete with RuAF artillery. If Amnesty International's latest report made Zel pound his desk, this one will make him punch the walls.
     
  22. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
  23. Cynda

    Cynda Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2014
    I have read through the Amnesty International report and I am disappointed with the short length of the report and lack of rigor in the findings. The authors only spend a few sentences on viable alternatives for Ukrainian military forces to congregate and defend. They don’t say why they are viable, especially in a war dominated by urban conflict. They say there are forests (Where? When?) that the army can base at, but do not include details on how viable the position is in terms of military tactics. Is this forest on low or high ground? Is is next to a road or far? Is is next to a river or far from sources of water? These are simple questions I have that the report does not answer. They also don’t place what they call violations in the context of either tactics or chaos of war.

    To give an example of taking context into account I offer the Battle of Gettysburg in the American Civil War. Robert E Lee’s Army invaded Pennsylvania and brigades of that army were marching on Gettysburg when the Union Army found them. Two Corps of the Union Army held the Confederates off, but were overwhelmed and retreated in panic and the straightest line for the rear intersected right through town, leading to gun battles in the streets of Gettysburg and Union soldiers attempting to hide in homes, in a town full of people. Should Amnesty International condemn the Union Army for not choosing to retreat around the town, at greater distance, greatly increasing the risk of capture and reduced manpower for the next two days of battles? Should Amnesty International condemn northern soldiers for seeking hiding places in civilian homes in the hopes to avoid capture?

    By the end of the first day the Union Army had retreated to high ground that was right next to the town, even located within the cemetery and encompassing civilian farms, home, and barns. Civilian structures were within easy range of artillery and during the three days of battle civilian structures were damaged by artillery. Should Amnesty International approach General George Gordon Meade in the widow’s home he had made his headquarters and tell him he needs to withdraw his army because they are positioned right next to a town with women and children and churches and a hospital? Civilians could be injured and killed. And in fact during the battle several Gettysburg residents were injured by fire during the battle and one was killed, Jennie Wade. However, retreating from the Union’s current position right next to Gettysburg would give up to the Confederacy the high ground of Culp’s Hill and Cemetery Ridge and the advantageous artillery platform on Cemetery Hill, greatly increasing the likelihood of a Confederate victory at Gettysburg that Lee greatly wanted instead of the Confederate defeat that was so greatly needed by the United States in a state of low morale during the war.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
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  24. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    @Cynda Oh I’m sure UAF would make various explanations for why they like basing in schools. My understanding is that the Soviets built schools quite sturdily, with large basements. In many residential areas the schools may be the structures best equipped to withstand a mortar attack. That doesn’t change the fact that Ukraine is converting civilian structures to military targets, and it’s not unusual. This happens in most modern wars I think, but Kiev’s boosters really don’t like acknowledging this because they are committed to the belief that this isn’t like other wars, that Ukraine soldiers are all heroes and Russian soldiers are all monsters.

    To the forest thing, if you monitor battle reports or just take a look at google maps, you’ll see that forested terrain is an important asset for UAF because is provides concealed positions, much as a large building does. UAF often sets up entrenched positions and launch assaults from forests because it provides tactical benefits. If Amnesty says that the bases they found in schools could have been set up in other viable locations, I don’t see any reason to question that, because UAF obviously has the authority/capability to set up wherever they want. Could the Amnesty report have been framed/worded in a way to be more sympathetic to Ukraine? Probably, but that’s not the point and it shouldn’t be the point. Their job is to advocate for civilians by investigating military conduct which endangers civilians, and it looks they’ve done that here, imo.
     
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  25. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Right. As they did in their report on Russia.

    And though the fact that none of these atrocities would be occurring if Russia didn’t invade Ukraine (beginning in 2014) is absolutely true - placing Russia in the obvious aggressor category - that’s not what a human rights report like this one is here for.

    If the UAF can help limit civilian deaths by following some of the recommendations in the AI report, then the report will have done its job.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022