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Ahsoka Sabine

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Current and Future Shows' started by Chris0013, Nov 28, 2020.

  1. Joystick Chevron

    Joystick Chevron Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2017
    I'd rather see an actor in the role first and foremost rather than a wrestler unless they find someone really impressive. Acting in wrestling and TV/movies are two very different arenas, and it often shows. One does not necessarily translate great to the other. Much as I like Mercedes Varnado in the ring and was happy to see her on the show, her line deliveries were often on the rough side of things. I want much more than that for Sabine. Now, if they can find a wrestler who can pull off a layered performance, cool, but it wouldn't be my first stop to look. I find the casting so far hit or miss, with Pedro Pascal being absolute gold and I want something I'm as happy with as that.

    As far as her story, I'm more interested in what she could bring to The Mandalorian than Ahsoka. Leaving aside that I really don't care for Rosario Dawson's Ahsoka and that hurts my interest in the show itself, I find the idea of Sabine's interactions with Din, Bo, and potentially Boba, and where she fits into the Mandalorian clan politics, and hopefully unpacking her relationship with the Mandalorian purge, to be more interesting than the search for Ezra stuff. I'll just be happy to see her either way, so long as they cast someone I like in the part, but that's where I'm more interested narratively.
     
  2. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    The gold standard to me is whether they can deliver the breakdown of guilt, sorrow, and helplessness of the Trials of the Darksaber in a heartbreaking way... while still being a gleeful warrior whenever not thinking about that.

    There's a complexity there that needs to be a core facet of the character. When the show has done stunt casting so far, they've had comparatively simple archetypes to play - Koska and Cara are both simple action characters, by and large. Sabine needs to be able to sell some layers and contradictions.
     
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  3. Ghost Ryder

    Ghost Ryder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 16, 2016
    I think it's tricky because the two have been familiar with each other for years, and yet had no interaction in Rebels. So I wonder if they'd have a pseudo-introduction in this time frame.

    If Din goes to Lothal, Sabine (if still there) could be the 'host' character to present both the favor part and insight on the Darksaber.

    That, and they're new; I don't think there'd be a stunt casting for an established character. There's definitely no need in Sabine's case because she'll have her helmet on for at least most of the action, so having a double is easy. Whoever would be cast could do some things through practice anyway, as Dawson did.
     
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  4. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 26, 2017
    I totally agree with all of that. In fact Koska can almost stay as she is and be a totally acceptable Mando archetype... whereas the attempts to bring a little depth to Cara's character are some pretty good writing running up against the limits of Carano's acting chops. Sabine would require someone quite a few levels up because the depth is already part of her DNA.

    If the Ahsoka show is going to be the Rebels sequel after all (as is seeming more likely), it's gonna have Sabine, but if we're gonna have Sabine, I highly expect her to ALSO be in Mando as there start to be more crossovers. Sabine would fit into Mando S3 more naturally than Ahsoka would, really.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
  5. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    So... even though this is tightly connected to what timeline the end of Rebels and The Mandalorian/Ahsoka series are at...

    ...What would you want to see from Sabine’s armor and look?

    Her last armor from Rebels had a darker color scheme and a different cuirass that looked a bit more traditional (it has a small stomach plate), while her short hair is maybe the most striking difference for her physically.

    Keep the epilogue color scheme? Change it up again? Have there be time enough for her to have a longer haircut? Keep it as it is?
     
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  6. Joystick Chevron

    Joystick Chevron Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 31, 2017
    I'm hoping for a different look from the epilogue. The armour looks great but I do miss the vibrant colours of her earlier looks and would love to see the same armour pieces with a different colour scheme. As far as her hair, I kinda figured it was the way it was to save a bit of money on a one scene model but whether or not that's the case, I would be okay with it but prefer something else. Coming into live action, I'd love a look with a longer side and an undercut. Always thought that would be a good fit for her in live action.
     
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  7. Ghost Ryder

    Ghost Ryder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 16, 2016
    I'm not picky about her look, though it would be cool to see the one from the epilogue again since it didn't get to be shown much, and it would be a visual tie to her last appearance in Rebels. In any case, I hope she still has the purrgil on her left pauldron; she had the convor there for a while. Also, I hope she changes part of her look in the course of these shows, largely so people who haven't seen Rebels see that aspect of her character.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  8. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    I’ve two thoughts as to the armor, though the idea of them changing it’s design each season to keep up the Rebels tradition is one I’d want regardless:

    1. Use Live Action as an excuse to make a ludicrously detailed “story” armor. The one real disadvantage you have with animation in the visual sense is that you can’t go as crazy with details as you’d perhaps want to. You could have Sabine’s armor be so customized and detailed in the props department that literally retells stories from her adventures - perhaps small but detailed and stylish depiction of the Purrgils taking out the seventh fleet, her duel with Gar Saxon, perhaps a personally stylized cameo of the Ghost crew. You could really go nuts with the design, and have her basically wear her own biography.

    2. Have Sabine paint and touch up the armor on screen, possibly multiple times. This idea, I like because it could also be used narratively, but also display her mood and feelings in the moment. Think like the graffiti scene in Into The Spiderverse for some stuff you could do, but also imagine intercutting it with montages of other stuff she’s doing. I mean, she’s basically a former Child Prodigy turned Renaissance woman. Show that.

    ...Though I also just thought of some other artwork I really want to see: Sabine’s take on the Great Purge.

    I can just imagine some haunting visual work they could with that topic.
     
  9. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 26, 2017
    With Sabine you have one character whose look almost definitely should be different when she's introduced, because that's part and parcel of who she is and what she does. The general shape of her helmet is pretty much the only defining factor.

    I definitely want to see her doing art onscreen, armor or not. It seems that both the offscreen narrative and the organic progression of her character would dictate that her creative pursuits are only going to become more definitive of her character going forward.

    But if I had to choose a color pallet? Deep indigos and violets, magenta accents.
     
  10. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 7, 2012
    Not just armour, how she paints her ship, if she has one.
     
  11. The Togruta Jedi

    The Togruta Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 22, 2020
    What a great idea; this could lead to character exposition, development and a opportunity for flashbacks and storytelling to divulge her lineage further, her clan and how she got to where she is now. Great suggestion.
     
  12. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    One of the contrasts I think would be fascinating to address is Sabine’s wildly repaintedpainted armor vs Din’s totally unpainted Beskar - which the show seems to have doubled down and codified on in way that weren’t in TCW and Rebels.

    When the Death Watch and Nite Owls showed up in live action on the Mandalorian, the previous costume designs that featured unpainted armor have been contradicted by the new designs - the Death Watch troopers we saw have their armor painted light blue, while the Nite Owls seem to be using a darker grey paint where they used to have unpainted armor (in particular, Bo-Katan’s chespiece noticeably has some peeling paint.)

    I feel like the fact Din doesn’t have any paint on his armor at all could be something they use to spark some cultural conversation between Sabine and him. It’s clear she studied the art of her people well enough to discuss it with her apparently expert father on top of her linguistic and technical skills, while Din is, to put in bluntly, a testament to the occasional inadequacies of a homeschooled education.:p

    *If* there is some purpose behind the less heraldic color schemes (the ones that don’t have some clear familial or political faction affiliation, I mean) we’ve seen people in the Children or in other expanded material have... maybe Sabine can go over it with Din, either as exposition or as a discussion of shared knowledge (if Din feels he has to earn it the way he did his crest.)

    Plus, if they become friends or allies... Sabine has a habit of spray painting those closest to her as a sign of affection - Ezra’s numerous painted helmet, Tristan’s shoulder pad... and arguably the entirety of Clan Wren, since they reincorporated much more yellow in their armor schemes after she returned.

    ...Anyone else thinking there’s a deleted scene of Sabine going through “artistic withdrawals” around her family, and begging to be allowed to repaint their stuff?[face_laugh]
     
  13. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 26, 2017
    I'd kind of forgotten until a recent re-watch how tenderly adoring the otherwise pretty hardass Ursa is toward her artist husband when they're reunited. Maybe the Wrens would tolerate Sabine's impulses because it would remind them of him! There are some disappointing aspects to that final Mando arc on Rebels, but I do love Sabine's dad and what little we get to see of their relationship.

    But the other neat thing about that is that, taken together with the Picasso nods in Mandalorian design, their society is, besides the obvious warrior thing, probably the one most outwardly focused on and respectful of art (or visual art specifically) in Star Wars, which is an interesting and cool little bit of cultural texture.
     
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  14. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    It actually makes sense when you remember most Mandos personalize their armor if not pledged to a specific faction, and the way that people need hobbies when not engaged in combat... plus, I’d bet the clans were exposed to a wide range of art and culture while conquering and raiding those other cultures.
     
  15. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 26, 2017
    Absolutely! I think it's a pretty natural depiction of a culture and it rings very true. It's just not something that SW or a lot of other genre properties ascribe to their "warrior" cultures. They're often boiled down to a brutalist aesthetic, or what non-warrior-related culture they have is made into a bit of a "gag" ("Klingon opera" being the first thing that comes to mind).
     
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  16. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    The Klingons have almost every part of their culture constructed entirely around some kind of violence or conquest, or stereotypical barbaric traits.

    The use of different kinds of art in TCW and Rebels, and art that actually follows some real world inspirations, kind of allows us to see what parts of their culture exist entirely independent of the cool armor their generally developed around otherwise - it’s something that is a real world reconciliation between a highly functional weapon system and purely decorative artistic expression.

    And Sabine is the best example of that - even her weapons are decorated.

    *If* they have any intention of having Din eventually paint his armor in a personalized way, it should be after an encounter and conversation with Sabine.

    ...And I just realized that of you wanted to make a parallel between the Armorer and Sabine as two powerful women who could both impact Din’s development, they’re both craftsman and artists. That mud horn symbol the Armorer forged is very evocative off the other pseudo-heraldic designs we’ve seen Mandalorians use. So it’s not like Din would be thrown off by Sabine having artistic inclinations - though the sheer breadth and depth is probably just as likely to surprise him as it would anyone else.
     
  17. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 26, 2017
    Sabine's definitely more in the relatively recent (IRL) tradition viewing art as self-expression, whereas the Armorer and the clan-based armor customizations are all a bit heraldic or semi-religious, with certain freedoms to personalize within the iconography. But, and this is pretty deep dive, some kinds of seemingly institutional Mando art are based in the IRL self-expressive tradition of Picasso, so maybe they've intermingled for a good long time (although maybe the Picasso thing is an indicator of Satine's pacifist faction being a little more artsy and progressive, that reading is possible too). I wish we knew what kind of artist Sabine's dad was -- he seems to be a pretty respected dude so that would tell us a bit more.

    Total side note, I've always felt like the "MandoGuernica" mural was partly silly -- based on a muddled IRL association that Mandos live in a cube city and have cube trees and so they must have "cubist" art -- and partly just really awesome anyway. Either way it adds a bit of richness down the line when we're discussing this kind of stuff.
     
  18. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    Some heraldry already included a bit of self-expression in the real world - since if you were going to make a new one or modify an old one for personal usage, that inspiration had to come form somewhere, even if it was banal (cue Richard the Lionheart: "What if I had THREE lions instead of two?")

    But I think it might be interesting to wonder if the more self-expression-centered tradition might be founded in-universe more with the civilian/non-combatant Mandalorian population - Sabine's "Renaissance Woman" traits are by no means guaranteed to be shared by everyone (and would in fact kind if act against her child prodigy background.) And even after Viszla and Maul rearmed Mandalore, there were still enough civilians to be threatened by the last battle on the planet during the Clone Wars while Alrich is clearly of lower social standing than Ursa, and doesn't seem to be a warrior at all.

    *If* we end up revealing that Mandalore has always had civilians, and that perhaps they had second-class citizenship status in such a warlike society... there's a chance Sabine may have their interests at heart as she's grown older, since she clearly is just as if not more tight with her father than she is with her mother.

    And for the MandoGuernica art... while I appreciated the cubist style as an inspiration, I'll confess I like the more subtle use of lines and angles in much of Rebels art in comparison.
     
  19. Cyber Spark

    Cyber Spark Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 27, 2020
    If Sabine appears in Ahsoka, and if the plot revolves around finding Ezra, the moment she reunites with him, that's gonna be, like, a MOMENT, if you catch my drift. I loved their dynamic in Rebels and would love to see how it could turn out.
     
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  20. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    Even without their actual shared screentime, the concept alone can sell a reunion as a powerful thing; people noticed that Sansa and Jon actually barely shared any screentime and never interacted on Game of Thrones before their reunion, but because the Starks reuniting was valued so highly, it still became a major dramatic moment.
     
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  21. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 26, 2017
    Right, I was sort of nodding in that direction by comparing it to the personal element to armor modification within a theme and the assumption that the iconography for the clans does change up over time. It definitely tallies.
    He doesn't (he takes her last name, even), but he's worthy of being her spouse and does seem to command some respect. But you're right, unlike the "multidisciplinary" Sabine, he seems to be just an artist, and that's why I'd love to know what kind of artist he is. One can imagine that, among the civilian class, artists might be important, maybe even more so than, say, a merchant class, inasmuch as they can serve as chroniclers of the great battles and such. But with all the divisions, there's still going to be a point of view to that stuff which might slowly lead to more self-expression or social commentary in the art. Alrich is obviously well in with Clan Wren's business, but his few exchanges of dialogue with Sabine make it sound like they're into some of the same kind of things. I wanted more... maybe some day!
    That seems like a natural progression to me, too. Her path is one of greater empathy than, erm, "the way", although empathy has a tendency to creep in when you engage in the galaxy at large (right, Din?)
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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  22. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    It's pretty much a given fact Sabine is a big picture Rebel Alliance/Republic supporter still, given when we last saw her she even had their official symbol on her shoulder pad over her own.

    It'll be interesting to compare Din's more cynical view of the Republic (where they're still fearsome, but not really the righteous authorities in his POV) contrasted with Sabine being someone who's at least a "obligated idealist" at worst - someone aware of imperfection and flaws but bound and determined to support righteous progress anyway - and possibly even an optimistic idealist at best.

    Sabine is also very liable to be someone who might think Mandalore's problem is its insular focus in the greater scheme of things - that if you want to be safe in the Galaxy, you have to join with others to make it so. That might serve as a possible catalyst for encouraging a possible Mandalore!Din to ally with the Republic against Thrawn.
     
  23. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 26, 2017
    Though they certainly have varying views on the Republic(s), one point of agreement between Sabine, Din, Bo and even Rau if he's still around would be greater-than-Mando-average affinity for the Jedi. Not that Jedi are super-prevalent during this time frame, but their general association with the Republic does count for something. And if nothing else it does indicate that all four are willing to look beyond that insular view at some times, for some reasons.
     
  24. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    I’d say that Bo, at minimum, views the Jedi with the respect for their individual honor and skill as warriors, but since she’s former Death Watch, and since we’re getting some of the old amoral and nationalistic vibes from her in live action now... I could see her not having the same respect for their ideals and long terms goals the way that Sabine and Rau have been suggested to.

    Not that Bo would hate it, more that her personal view still revolves around her Mandalorian ideal, and even taking the wider picture into account, is still somewhat myopic.

    Rau’s dialogue when talking to Kanan in his first appearance in reference to the Clone Wars implied he was more “Galactically-concerned” in his youth, and his faction of Mandos were willing to put aside their traditional armor for more ceremonial accoutrements as defenders of Satine’s New Mandalorian regime, so he seems likely to have had a more positive view of the Jedi’s ideals and larger charge with the Galaxy as opposed to merely a single culture. And he was implicitly with the Rebels before the darksaber was recovered.

    Sabine, though, she feels the most aligned with the Jedi and Republic ethos, even while still being stridently Mandalorian.

    And it’s that Republic part that is most interesting, as Bo has demonstrated that while she’s still clearly on personal terms with Ahsoka, she doesn’t seem to want any Republic help beyond Cara’s help in taking the cruiser. I think the implication is that The Purge has pushed her to try aligning more with traditional Mandalorian thinking, where she has to do it herself, seizing her own ships, weapons, and building her own personal army.

    But the last we saw Sabine, she had a full-fledged Rebel firebird on her paldron - not her personal take on it, the real deal. She came out of the Purge, whether as a full participant or as a witness form the sidelines due to her responsibilities on Lothal, still proudly loyal to the Rebels. That’s partially why I’m so curious what she was doing during the original films beyond just watching over Lothal: it’s hard to see her doing nothing while the people she just reconnected with are hunted and stripped of their identity by the Empire.
     
  25. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 26, 2017
    Yeah, there's no way. She barely gets given leave from her family to go off and rejoin the Rebels at all, promising to come back afterward. And her reintegration into that society was hard-won. She went back. In fact maybe her later stewardship (or whatever it might be considered) of Lothal is born both of her debt to Ezra and as a personal penance for not being able to do more for her own people in the purge.

    Bo and Rau discuss being really impressed by Sabine. If she didn't go back and do something (and I'm sure she did!) can you imagine how much rage Bo would have towards her? Enough that Sabine might have a whole 'nother reason to head for the Unknown Regions rather than risk running into Bo again!
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
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