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Saga-city Lodge - CYN & Tim's retreat for Star Wars Purists - Heads up, new topic, 4/24

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by CYNICAL21, Aug 22, 2003.

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  1. CYNICAL21

    CYNICAL21 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2001
    Once upon a time, there was a gifted young man with a fantastic imagination, who dreamed of telling a magical story of the conflict between good and evil. We'll call him . . . George. And the rest, of course, is history. Under the guidance of the great bearded one, that GFFA was born and grew and flourished and provided our society with something we had lost - something we needed without ever realizing our need, until it was filled.

    Star Wars was not only a great, sweeping, romantic saga and a story to inspire our imagination and fierce loyalties. It also provided replacements for the myths and legends that we had somehow allowed to fall away from us, in our march toward our prosaic, pragmatic, scientific, politically-constricted future.

    George Lucas gave us back our ability to believe in - and love - our heroes, and he has remained remarkably true to his vision, through five films, and surely more controversy than any group of motion pictures have ever generated before.

    I (CYNICAL21) do not like - and refuse to use - the term, canon - because I believe it has been debated and distorted so endlessly that no one even knows what it means any more. At one time, we were told that canon included only the information provided in the films themselves and the novelizations of them - but that is no longer true. If it were, it would be canon fact that Owen Lars and Obi-Wan Kenobi are brothers, as stated in one of the novelizations. Since this is patently NOT the case, we are left to decide for ourselves what is or is not unarguable truth.

    Except for one thing. He who waved his mighty hand and created it all has made a couple of pertinent statements. Most notably, he has said that ONLY the films can be considered gospel truth. In addition, when asked about the EU, his response was that he really tries NOT to think about that.

    Now - we have scrolled over pages and pages on this board - and found threads devoted to male writers, female writers, teen-aged writers, older writers, NJO writers, Obi-Dala writers, Jaina/Jag writers, Mara Jade writers, Han/Leia writers, ad infinitum. Elsewhere on these boards, whether official or not, are clubs or associations or leagues, etc., for everything from Handmaidens to Wraiths to Lukie-lovers.

    Every conceivable type of fan has a thread - or several - devoted to his or her particular type of fandom.

    Except one.

    So here it is - and let us be very specific about what it is, what it's meant to do, and what the rules are.

    This is the Saga-city Lodge - a retreat for Star Wars Purists. And the sub-title might very well be "a forum for the practice of the gentle art of debate within the setting of the SW films."

    And this is the creed for those who seek membership here. (Think of this as Ewan's rant in Trainspotting or Kevin Costner's "I believe" speech in Bull Durham.}

    We believe in the Star Wars universe as created by George Lucas; in the nobility of the Jedi Order and the evil of the empire; in the power of the Force and the malevolence of the Sith; in heroes like Luke Skywalker, Qui-Gon Jinn, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Han Solo, Leia Organa, Padmé Amidala; in dastardly villains like Palpatine, Darth Maul, Tarkin, and Count Dooku; in the prophecy of the Chosen One, and both the tragedy and the triumph of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader; in the heroic nature of Chewbacca and Lando Calrissian and Mace Windu and Mon Mothma and Wedge Antilles and Beru Lars and Captain Tanaka and the thousands of others who fought the good fight; in the lovely spirits of Shmi Skywalker and Amidala's handmaidens; in the wisdom and greatness of Master Yoda; in the venality and universal ugliness of the Hutts and the bounty hunters and a society consumed with greed and saved, ultimately, by the simplicity of goodness and loyalty.

    And that is undoubtedly the over-simplification of all time.

    On the other hand, we do NOT believe in the so-called facts, figures, and general flim-flam of that body of work known as the EU. We reject completely the concepts of t
     
  2. Darth_Tim

    Darth_Tim Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2002
    *Tim pulls up to the bar and orders a drink*

    Wohoo! It's here! Great opener, CYN. I'm predicting great things for this thread, considering the wealth of talent that exists on the boards here.

    No officers, eh? I was kind of thinking "Minister of Waging Agressive War" was a good title, but ahh well, I can let it go...

    :D :D

    -Tim
     
  3. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Ahhhhhh.... Sanctuary...

    *sees a ysalamari trying to scrurry in and promptly stomps the crap out of it....*



    Pour me a Tatooien Sunset please (Double shot tequilla sunrise).
     
  4. CYNICAL21

    CYNICAL21 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2001
    If anything, it's probably a defense minister we'll need. Should we lay in a supply of asbestos bloomers? :D

    CYN
     
  5. Shaindl

    Shaindl Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2002
    So glad to see this is up Cyn! Count me in as a member. I like your explanation of "purist" as opposed to "canon" - couldn't agree more. Wasn't able to stomach the EU (sorry to those who love it), so I stopped trying, and the writing of the JA was, like you said, puerile, especially when you compare it to excellent children's writing that assumes kids have a brain.

    I'll take some of that well-aged Corellian brandy I see, myself...

    Shaindl
     
  6. Darth_Tim

    Darth_Tim Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2002
    WEll, I can bring in Darth Raptor, if you want...don't think anyone will mess with him. :D

    Shaindl: Wohoo! Nice to see ya!

    Breezy: Those dang lizards get in everywhere, don't they?

    *sprays some Ysalamari B-Gon"*

    -Tim
     
  7. geo3

    geo3 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2002
    *geo3 sidles into the Lodge, looking around suspiciously, then breathes a deep sigh of relief and sinks down next to Tim at the bar*

    "Home at last!" she sighs, and points to Tim. "I'll have a double of whatever he's having..."

    *waves to everyone else*

    "Step on up, my friends! The next round's on me!"

    *While waiting for the drinks geo3 begins to fashion a laurel wreath for Cyn*
     
  8. PaddyJuan

    PaddyJuan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2002
    *hops in
    *looks around
    *sneaks Reload into the stereo
    *CRANKS IT!
    *hides back under the lily pad

    _______
    _(O.O)_


    *waits for the fun to start
     
  9. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    << Raises a glass to Cyn and Tim!


    My muse steps out of hiding to do the same.
     
  10. ami-padme

    ami-padme Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Love it. :D Great idea. Add another purist to this retreat.
     
  11. Darth_Tim

    Darth_Tim Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2002
    A fellow Metallica fan, PJ?

    -Tim
     
  12. Melyanna

    Melyanna Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 2001
    Well, I'll certainly be paying attention here, if not always participating. :)

    *quickly hides NJO stories* ;)

    And Cyn, I know you've questioned my taste for months now - I can only say that I write NJO because the books are so awful that the editor, perfectionist, and Hermione in me makes me want to do a better job. ;)

    Mel
     
  13. Darth_Tim

    Darth_Tim Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2002
    Hehe. Well, Mel, you've done some superb work in our territory, as well, and obviously, many writers play around in different genres.

    Whoa!! A-p delurked!!!

    -Tim
     
  14. CYNICAL21

    CYNICAL21 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2001
    We could always add those cellos, Tim. The hostess grins a big fat WELCOME to everybody. It's Grand Opening - and the drinks are on the house!

    Want a little tidbit for discussion - before the main event, so to speak?

    Amidala - Leia: similarities, contrasts - who was stronger - or braver?

    Mely - I may question the quality of the NJO in general - mainly because it just doesn't interest me much - but I would NEVER question the quality of YOUR work! :) And, as Tim said, there are plenty of authors who write in both concepts - and do it well, so this is NOT meant to dispute that. It's simply meant to offer support for those who prefer to live in one particular reality.

    CYN
     
  15. PaddyJuan

    PaddyJuan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2002
    I suppose that technically John Williams would be more appropriate in here, but I find the words on Reload very much express a lot of things I see in the GFFA.

    "I'm Unforgiven Too"
    "Better Than You"
    "Please Forgive Me"

    ah well, this does look like it will be fun, which is amusing when you consider that I've only written AUs.

    snicker.

    edit: oops, forgot the vignette, which would qualify, so I guess it's okay.
     
  16. CYNICAL21

    CYNICAL21 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2001
    Yes, but purists do NOT automatically reject AUs. It all depends on character interpretation. Your work, froggy, is very, very original, and features some left turns from conventional SW purism - but you're always true to the characters you write - so take a seat. What'll you have?

    After all, all fan fiction must be - at least a little - AU by definition (although I just know JG is going to step in and dispute the term [face_mischief]) - otherwise, we'd just be writing the movies, in a thousand different ways. Boooorrrriiinnnngggg!

    CYN
     
  17. DarthLothi

    DarthLothi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2001
    On the other hand, we do NOT believe in the so-called facts, figures, and general flim-flam of that body of work known as the EU. We reject completely the concepts of the Yuuzhan Vong (and if we've mispelled it, we really don't care), the NJO, the Solo children (including existentialist, navel-gazing Jacen, Mary-Sue-to-end-them-all Jaina, and the only one who MIGHT have been worthy of preserving - Anakin - who is now dead), drunken Han and dead Chewy, Mara Jade, Mara Jade, Mara Jade - I think you get the idea.


    Amen!! Count me in!

    At some point in time, Tim and I will begin our project to show Luke as a real Jedi Master, and maybe make Kyp Durron a character worthy enough to be rejected by the EU. ;)
     
  18. Darth_Tim

    Darth_Tim Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2002
    Hmm.

    Hard to say, because we don't really know what will happen with Padme in E3.

    Both were strong yet compassionate women who were politicians and resistance fighters at a very young age.

    Padme, as Queen of a blockaded planet, after finding no hope of relief in the Senate, decided to take matters into her own hands and organized and led a successful attack to retake her planet despite being hugely outnumbered and told by the Jedi that they could not directly intervene on her behalf. She led the main attack on the Viceroy in person, and her tactics were both bold and brilliant. On Geonosis, she had no fear of journeying to the Separatist base and intended to find a diplomatic solution to the problem and avoid all-out war.

    Leia took a leading role in the Rebellion and participated in the key battles. Despite her aristocratic upbringing, she didn't seem to separate herself from the troops and even joined the Endor strike team as a foot soldier. She infiltrated Jabba's palace to free Han Solo. When captured by Vader and Tarkin, she refused to tell them any compromising information - in fact, she fed them disinformation - and defiantly insulted Tarkin and Vader on the bridge of their own ship.

    It;s hard to pick from the two, though Padme didn't seem to have Leia's at times fiery temper. The two women, while both politicians and leaders, played out their roles in vastly different eras and situations.

    However, while Padme could still feel compassion and understanding for Anakin during the confession scene, Leia in ROTJ refused to believe Luke's assertion that Vader could be turned, and that Luke felt it his duty to at least make an attempt to appeal to whatever remained of Anakin Skywalker.

    -Tim
     
  19. PaddyJuan

    PaddyJuan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2002
    I find it interesting that almost all of his main characters are very strong, but each also has some flaw that allows them to be human, er, sorta.

    Yoda: strongest Jedi we know of - can't see the dark of Palpantine
    Palpy: very very sneaky and planning - becomes overconfident
    Qui-Gon: Jedi Master - can not see the future for the immediate present
    Obi-Wan: Jedi Padawan/Knight/Master/Old Master/Blue Ghostie - self doubt
    Anakin: the Chosen One - fear
    the rest of the first trilogy cast and the whole second trilogy cast all have the same issues - no matter how great they are, they all have one flaw (at least). I find this makes the story much more interesting in that no one is deemed 'perfect'.

    I think one thing that I find distressing about many of the books is that they focus on the weaknesses, where the movies seem to focus more on their strengths, letting the underlying weakness leave an exploitable gap that the plot gleefully seizes on to create the adventures. Of course, if we wanted the books to be made into movies, some of them would be more Woody Allen's style than GL's. (and that is not a compliment)

    I do find it encouraging that all of his female characters are strong in their own ways, the Jedi, Shmi, Beru, Padme, Leia, Mon Mothma. Such a nice contrast to the way many stories use them as brainless pretty bodies and not much else.
     
  20. Fate

    Fate Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2003
    *peeks in and grins*

    Great idea, CYN and Tim! [face_love] It's like a baby SOTJ. [face_mischief]

    *moseys on over to the bar*

    *pulls up a chair next to Tim and orders a mug of spiced Lum*

    Bartender: Can I see some ID, miss?

    Fate: What? I can't drink here either? *pouts prettily*

    Bartender: *refuses to be swayed*

    Fate: Oh, fine! :( *orders a virgin Noonian Fixer with whipped cream on top*

    :D
     
  21. Jedi_Satimber

    Jedi_Satimber Jedi Knight star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2002
    I'd like to ask a question, if I may?

    This is Fan Fiction or Alternate Universe as you see it? Correct?

    Can someone tell me why you would rather read and believe a Fan Fic over an authorized written book?

    I am curious. Now some of you may come at me with some hostility because I ask this question, beings that I am a Completist.

    I just want a civil explaination, that is all I am looking for.

    I am just having difficulty in understanding your beliefs.

    And if you want to know mine...it is simple.

    Star Wars is Star Wars. End of statement. If it is a movie, game or book...it is Star Wars.


    But that is my view. I am not one to flame, troll, spam or argue with valid points...in SW discussion.

    Now in real life, I am as stubborn as a mule.

    EDIT: changed a couple of mark ups

     
  22. CYNICAL21

    CYNICAL21 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2001
    Welcome, Jedi Satimber - and thank you for the civil inquiry - but your timing is lousy! :D I have a meeting in two minutes.

    However, I will take the time to promise to come back later and embroider my response. For the moment, I'll simply reply that, if one accepts ALL the sources as gospel, one is going to get very confused, as they often contradict each other, depending on the philosophy of whichever writer you are reading. And the fact that these books/games are authorized has only one true meaning; Star WArs, no matter how beloved, is basically a cash cow to certain commerical interests - and George, while dedicated to his original concepts, is certainly not stupid. There's a bit of the Field of Dreams philosophy in it: if they'll buy it, we will write it. :D

    As for preferences - we need a shrug icon, I think. One man's paté is another's rancid goose liver. For me, I find the 'purist' versions of fan fic to be truer to what I perceive as the SW philosophy - without all the convoluted, tortuous, soul-twisting, existentialist psycho-babble.

    Gotta run - or get fired.

    ONE QUICK EDIT: And the other thing is that - quite often - many of the stories here are at least as well written - and often better. Professionalism often has nothing to do with being published! [face_mischief]


    Later.

    CYN
     
  23. PaddyJuan

    PaddyJuan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2002
    Well, for one reason, I read very quickly and there are only so many books. Fan fiction gives me a much wider range of stories to read.

    Like with published books, there is a wide variation in the skills of the author. I personally do not like the way some of the published authors write, and do not read their non-starwars works either. On the other hand, there are some excellent authors out there who could do a much better job in the starwars universe in my opinion.

    Fanfiction is readily available, and I can close a story in a few glances if I do not like it, without bothering to buy a book, or go to the library. Some of the authors who post here are extremely talented. I can only assume that they are using this media to hone their skills, or that they find this an author friendly, fun place to post and receive quite a bit of feedback for their works without the stress or worry of trying to get something published.

    Why do I personally prefer AUs? I like innovative things. I have read the star wars books and seen the movies (more than once :D ). I like new stories and looking at the characters in a different light. Also, I like the thought that I am not the only nut out there who spends dead time in airplanes, cars, laundry, dishes, and mowing lawns daydreaming of other places and wondering 'what happens if this happens there?'.

    So, while I love the 'real' star wars, and I greatly appreciate GL for giving me a place to start my imagination roaming, I do not feel confined to only 'what is' and am happily amusing myself with 'what else is there'.
     
  24. Jedi_Satimber

    Jedi_Satimber Jedi Knight star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Cyn...do not get fired...that would be bad. :D


    I look forward to a more detailed reponse. I may not see it until Monday or Tuesday...but I still will look forward to it.

    Juan...that is a very good example of your views.
     
  25. obi_ew

    obi_ew Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Thank the Force! :D Finally a refuge from the insanity! I never realized how desperately something like this thread was needed, until the past week or so! ;) I eagerly await discussing topics that are close to my heart. I'm strictly an AU writer also, but I grew up with the true Trilogy and have no interest in the offbranches out there. Wonderful idea you two! Who needs spirits? I'm punch drunk just from joy! :)
     
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