Lit Separatist Victories in The Clone Wars

Discussion in 'Literature' started by JediKnight75, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. JediKnight75

    JediKnight75 Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 15, 2011
    I have been thinking about the portrayal of the Separatists in the Clone Wars and wanted to discuss their victories against the Republic in the war and the ways in which they are shown to be competent (I feel their incompetence receives too much attention). I also, wanted to compare their victories in TCW to those in the multimedia project -- my theory is that TCW is actually better in this regard.

    So for victories I can remember the opening battle of the Malevolence arc, Anakin is forced to retreat in the first episode of season one's droid arc (granted he went in alone), the episode "Cloak of Darkness", the episode "The Lair of Grievous," Savage Opress's first battle, and the opening part of the Battle of Ryloth (to me it seems like the Republic is forced off world and then returns. Are there any more Separatist victories? It is been a while since I watched the show; I sure hope so, but I don't think that's necessary. This show focuses on Anakin and Obi-Wan -- the heroes of the Clone Wars. When focusing on them we can expect the vast majority of battles to be Republic victories. Also, the show is primarily composed of isolated arcs or episodes. In this situation, we are more likely to see the Republic won because having the bad side lose is likely more appealing to viewers. The multimedia project was similar in this regard, the only separatist victories were the evacuation of Ren Var, the Duel of Bakura, The Battle of Jabiim, The Battle of Hypori, and the Second Battle of Tythe may have been shown. This isn't much different than Separatist victories in TCW. I should note that I'm not counting battles that are only referenced, shown in an episode's opening sequence (the montages for the microseries or the announcer in TCW), discussed in a Holonet News article, or found only in a source book. While all of these show Separatist victories, they aren't part of the story the audience is seeing/reading. Thus we are left with TCW having more victories.

    For the rest, I'm only going to focus on canon sources. First, in terms of leadership the Separatists aren't shown to be inept. Assajj Ventress, Admiral Trench, and Dooku are all shown to be competent. Then there's General Grievous, who is the most complained about character on the side of the Separatists. I actually don't mind him. He was fairly terrifying in Lair of Grievous, and his loss in the Malevolence arc doesn't seem to be the fault of incompetence and solely do to Anakin's skill. His victories against the Nightsisters, and in the Son of Dathomir comic show him to be a skilled leader (didn't he also defeat Hondo's pirates?). It is true that Ahsoka was able to hold her own against him, but it was more of a fighting retreat that barely lasted a minute, after which she hid and tried to avoid him. His most ridiculed moment is when he's captured by Gungans. But honestly this isn't that big of a deal; it was just him against am army which was armed with weapons that would be effective against machines. I don't think many people could win in his situation. I feel like these complaints have more to do with a dislike for Gungans rather than with the actual plausibility of his capture. While I too dislike the Gungans, in universe they are supposed to be formidable warriors.

    I will say the Battle Droid humor is terrible, but I don't think they are completely horrible soldiers. When they are actually in a fight with the clones, they seem to be about on equal footing and we see them force the Republic to retreat (for example season 1:16 The Hidden Enemy). When the droids are attacking their losses don't usually appear to be due to incompetence or at least would have still occurred of they were competent (for example the droids picking up the grenades in "Duel of the Droids" was a moment of incompetence, but the end result would have happened regardless). Also, the ay the destroyed Assajj's Nightsister clan was primarily composed of B-1 Battle Droids. This is actually am impressive feat considering the force abilities of the Nightsisters. While the Battle Droids are the worst aspect of the portrayal of the Separatists, it isn't terrible and doesn't take away from the threat posed by the Separatists.

    Overall, I feel that TCW handled the Separatists in a good way and showed the conflict in an appropriate manner.
  2. Kablob

    Kablob Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jul 24, 2014
    Never forget Cloak of Darkness. AKA: The episode where Asajj kicked everybody's ass.

    (Shouldn't this be in the TV forum?)
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  3. JediKnight75

    JediKnight75 Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 15, 2011
    Maybe, but we discuss the TV shows here. Also, while my purpose isn't to discuss the multimedia project, I did use it as a point of reference and I think it could further discussion if people mention it.

    Yes, Cloak of Darkness was an awesome episode. I did mention it as the rescue of Gunray because I didn't remember its name. Thanks for reminding me :).
  4. JediKnight75

    JediKnight75 Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 15, 2011
    Sorry for the double post; I wanted to add some Separatist victories to my list and it was too late to edit. These include, the Battle at the beginning of "Jedi Crash," The First Battle of Felucia, the battle at the beginning of "Greivous Intrigue," and apparently there is a Separatist victory in "Nomad Droids." My reason for posting this is to illustrate that the Separatists were actually an effective military in TCW. That seems to be a common complaint --at least my primary one-, but as I'm rewatching the series I've been revaluating my opinion.

    Even though it was a Rebublic victory, I want to add the battle of Mon Cala as an honorable mention. The Separatists were very close to victory and even defeated the Republic reinforcements. I think it was the only time they got that close and still lost. I unsure if I should include Umbara because the Republic's problems seem to be mostly due to the actions of Krell.
  5. General Immodet

    General Immodet Jedi Master star 5

    Dec 5, 2012
    There are many more separatist victories in the EU:
    -) General Grievous comic series - Grievous is victorious several times
    -) Jedi: Count Dooku - Dooku captures some Jedi at the beginning - Dooku and his Dark Jedi killed several Kiffar
    -) Republic 51 - Ventress and Durge wiped out all Gungans on the moon of Naboo
    -) Republic 64 - the Separatists defeat Ronhar Kim's forces
    -) ...
    Those are the ones that spring to mind, there are many more.
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  6. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Sep 2, 2012
    The Padawan pack was destroyed on Jabiim and the Republic had to retreat from their as well.
  7. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Sep 7, 2012
    I think my favorite stuff involving Separatist victories in the old CW material was actually the Durge's Lance stuff from the Insider articles, since it spanned over a series of articles so you saw the progression of the campaign, the seizure of a Core World, the various political and military fallout on both sides, etc.

    I guess it's not technically Separatist victories but on the same topic, the pre-AOTC HoloNet News website had a lot of good stuff on the various planetary secessions and the economic, political, social causes, etc.
  8. General Immodet

    General Immodet Jedi Master star 5

    Dec 5, 2012
    The articles about Operation Durge's Lance provided the fans with a wonderful picture of Grievous during the Battle of Duro.
  9. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 4, 2012
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  10. Nom von Anor

    Nom von Anor Jedi Master star 3

    Oct 7, 2012
    In Republic#61 Separatists destroy most of the Republic forces on Parcellus Minor.
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  11. JediKnight75

    JediKnight75 Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 15, 2011
    I completely forgot about the Grievous comic series. Thanks for the reminder! Ronhar's defeat is another good one. I didn't count the Gungans being killed because we only see the aftermath. There's another planet Dooku goes to in the comic "Dooku," that joins the Separatists, but I don't know if I can count of since we don't see any battle battles or how the planet switched sides. The Jedi Dooku captures was part of the battle of Drongar, which was a Republic victory; but it could be a similar situation as the battle of Ryloth which I counted as a Separatist victory. I left out the fight on Kiffu because from my knowledge it was neutral planet and I was focuisng on victories against the Republic. If I'm wrong, and Kiffu sided with the Republic please correct me.

    Another Separatist victory in the EU was Quinlan Vos's mission to Coruscant where he assassinated a senator. His mission was a success and he won the duo that followed.

    Durge's Lance is an event that I'm sad that I wasn't abls to read about. It's such a cool campaign and is a nice prelude to the Outer Rim Sieges. It is something I wish all Clone Wars series did more of. While the mutlimedia project was better in this regard (as seen in Operation Durge's Lance and Labyrinth of Evil) both lacked stories that showed large campaigns and illustrated the overall progression of the war. While this isn't the most important aspect of the story (the purpose of telling about the Clone Wars is to show Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship and the former's fall), seeing them would have been nice. Also Durge's Lance is the only major successful campaign we've seen.

    That's a great picture! Thanks for posting it!
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  12. mes520

    mes520 Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 3, 2012
    There are some in the original Star Wars: Clone Wars.
  13. General Immodet

    General Immodet Jedi Master star 5

    Dec 5, 2012
    Also, in the comic series The Clone Wars Tofen Vane seems to win several battles against the Republic.
  14. FTeik

    FTeik Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Nov 7, 2000
    For the purpose of this threat, what would count as a victory?

    For example, the entry on the "Invisible Hand" in RotS:ICS mentions the bombardment of 26 other strategically important Core-Worlds, but were those events a victory for the CIS or did they just drop out of hyperspace, throw a few bombs and vanished (perhaps even driven of by the Republic)?

    There is also the bombardment of Humbarine mentioned in RotS:ICS, which resulted in the fall of the entire heavily industrialized Humbarine-sector under CIS-control. Unlike with the other 26 bombardments from the same source, here we know the results and can say, that we have a CIS-victory here.

    There is also the take-over of Scipio in TCW, which is important, because it freed the CIS of their debts to the IGBC.