Lit Serious Question: Was C'Boath based off of Snoke in early drafts?

There is of course no way we can know for sure exactly what George Lucas had in mind, but I am wondering WHAT Timothy Zahn was allowed to see by George when coming up with his novel. Did he base C'Boath off of an early idea for Snoke? In the novels Luke isn't aware of the danger C'Boath poses, and I imagine the same was probably true for Snoke as well. I'm wondering if, for a time, Luke encountered Snoke while on a quest to learn all he could about how to be a Jedi, to complete his training.

I'm pretty sure that's going to end up coming to light some day. Just a feeling though

What else in the SEQUELS can we be SOMEWHAT sure was based off of ideas that made their way into the EU NOVELS?

I'm guessing Ray and Ben were originally intended to be Jedi twins, but then became of two different origins. I'm guessing in Rey's case the mystery of who her parents are is much like Anakin's. She probably had a human mother, but was, like Anakin conceived by the force. The mystery of "who is [the] father?" we see in Lucas' notebook in the Webisode: All I Need Is An Idea.

etc.

What else can we add to this list?

 

No.

He wasn't.

 

Other links of interest: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/que...ahn-an-order-by-george-lucas-for-the-movies-7

 

How are you so sure? Is there I reason why we shouldn't consider this a possibility?
I seem to recall an old interview where Timothy said he saw what George had in mind for sequels, and seemed excited about it. I'll repost it here if I can find the quote. Perhaps this is where he got the idea from for C'Baoth.

 

Because it's an absurd idea founded in nothing but baseless speculation. The idea requires that George had a vague idea for the sequel trilogy, that he repeatedly said he wouldn't make, that was somehow co-opted by Zahn before making its way across 30 years to a movie that didn't even use George's treatment in its entirety.

 

Both of the characters are so different. C’Baoth was crazy or at least his clone was. Snoke is more like a quasi-Palpatine only not as cool or as handsome.

 

C'baoth was crazy, while Snoke wasn't.

 

Snoke's backstory really should be along the same lines of how he and Luke met. Luke heard him calling through the force, and was drawn into his trap with Ben Solo (e.g. instead of Leia's twins). This might even add weight to why Luke was away from all the action for so long. Maybe he unwittingly played a bit part in the very creation of the First Order. That would be awesome.

 

I recall reading somewhere (Interviews?) that C'baoth was originally conceived of as a clone of Obi-Wan, and that it was only after Lucas nixed this, that Zahn created a new Jedi Master for him to be a clone of.

 

That would parallel the implications that were brought up in the Aftermath trilogy. Instead of Sidious answering the call, it would be Luke. Oops.

 

I doubt it. C'baoth was a result Zahn wanting to bring in the Clone Wars into play but not being allowed to use the originally conceived clone of Obi-Wan. We also have no idea whether or not Snoke was based on anything in Lucas' sequel trilogy outline or was created by Abrams&Kasdan.

Some ideas we do know came from Lucas' original pitch was Luke being in exile at the first Jedi Temple and the base concept of Rey (Kira)

 

That's right. You can notably read about it in "From Heir to Last Command", an interview-article published in Star Wars Adventure Journal 1.

 

Most of what Zahn's said about that time seems to point more to Lucas already having his eyes set on the Prequels rather than any potential sequel trilogy.

Though now I want C'Baoth in canon...give me my ripped Santa back.

 

Snoke didn't even exist under Lucas, as far as we know; he was an Ardnt/Kasdan/Abrams invention, and one whose character and appearance were only settled upon during post-production.

 

Maybe Snoke was the Guardian of Mount Tantiss that Joruus killed. OR THE MAYOR OF SERNPI dammit guys I just don't care anymore

 

I always thought that Joruus was the Guardian. Created by Palpatine and put there to watch over the Mountain and the precious cloning equipment within. Only an insane Dark Jedi could be trusted to watch over such potent treasures without feeling the temptation to use them to create their own Empire.

 

As an insane Force-user (whatever side they feel like putting him on), sure, but no clone this time.

 

But Zahn said he definitely meant there was a Guardian prior to the clone C'baoth.
"My original reasoning was just what'’s laid out here: that whomever Palpatine had left to guard his storehouse had been killed by Joruus C'baoth when he somehow stumbled on the place." (From the 20th anniversary annotated edition of Heir to the Empire)

 

Snoke is definitely not based on C'baoth, however George did have some vague ideas about the sequel trilogy. We know that some of the things used in the Dark Empire series came from GL's ideas on the ST. George changed his mind about how many SW movies there'll be so often, he probably doesn't remember himself what he originally intended, however Lucas did mention back in the late 70's/early 80's that there will be 12 SW movies. Then he changed it to 9, then to just 3 when he had his burnout after ROTJ, and then to 6, when he started working on the PT. But he did develop some basic ideas about the ST during the time he was making the OT.

 

They could basically make him the original C'Baoth and not too much would need to change, both were fairly loony.

 

I believe I read somewhere that C'Baoth was supposed to have been a clone of Kenobi that went bad but GL put the kibosh on that....so he used an original Jedi Master.

 

Draft notes are not definitive. Thrawn hits the nail on the head when he states that Joruus was the Guardian whose gone insane and forgotten his origins.

In that quote, Zahn says that Joruus just stumbled across Wayland. But we know that he was created by Palpatine from the DNA sample taken on Yaga Minor prior to Outbound Flight's departure.

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Then there was The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, which ruined everybody's fun.

 

I don't recall Thrawn ever saying that.

Joruus actually remembers that he had a spectacular battle with the Guardian, but also, that it was long ago enough that the details of the battle have become hazy.

The idea may have been:

"Palpatine created C'baoth for some specific purpose, but C'baoth killed his keepers, fled, travelled the galaxy for a bit before stumbling on Wayland, killed the Guardian, and ruled Wayland."

Thrawn says to Pellaeon to count their blessings that they have C'baoth, and not a proper Dark Jedi who would be much more ambitious and hard to control.

 

Looking for quotes relevant to this thread, and generally how much TZ knew.

From EW back in 2012: "...years ago, he was briefed on Lucas’ plans for sequels, and how the Thrawn books would fit in. “The original idea as I understood it— and Lucas changes his mind off and on, so it may not be what he’s thinking right now – but it was going to be three generations. You’d have the original trilogy, then go back to Luke’s father and find out what happened to him [in the prequels], and if there was another 7th, 8th, or 9th film, it would be Luke’s children. The Thrawn Trilogy really would have fit into the gap,” the author said...."