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  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

Sexism policy

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Ender Sai, Nov 3, 2014.

  1. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    I am damn serious when someone point me as a sexist. I tried to solve this through private conversation before I post here.

    I just think the topic is keep switching, most of you seem to agree that praise on someone's looks is not wrong, which was basically what I did.

    But then find other different weird reasons, even the person's political background to say how sexist it was.
     
    Master_Rebado likes this.
  2. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012

    Our "gossip" is discussing polling data and news, not objectifying women with misogynistic posts. Again, you are the only one adding meaningless posts to serious discussions. No one else.

    The fact you're trolling the official thread on the forums sexism policy speaks volumes.
     
  3. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    These "serious" data and news are very very basic and let's say, quite laughable in the eyes of real politicians. We don't truly know about what's really there and we don't have the knowledge to truly figure out. Like every community, the politic discussion always seems "serious" and intensive, but in truth was nothing but pointless argument between bored internet users and childplay among those who really decide how politics go. Even most of the celebrities, many of the famous authors are no different, their political views are, quite shallow and limited. I'm no different, but at least I realize that. Just like many other topics of JCC were amateurs compare to its fan community's discussion, this is overall, a Star Wars community. Again, whether my post is relevant or not has nothing to do with sexism.

    Again, praising someone's looks has nothing to do with objectifying men or women. I don't slap others' face when they say I look good.
     
  4. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    LOL

    I'm done with you.
     
    V-2 likes this.
  5. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    I just told you the truth.

    This is not the place to discuss about politics, I don't care about what you say in that thread.

    But do. not. accuse. others. for. sexism. basically. because. they. praise. someone's. looks.
     
    Master_Rebado likes this.
  6. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Where?

    If you say Alderaan I shall lose all respect for you.

    This is someone who will argue "less taste! More filling" with darth sinister for like 30 pages, completely oblivious to any reaction/s against their circular spiral of posting death. In other words, PG, meet the spectrum itself.
     
  7. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    This is a thread on the board's sexism policy, and it looks like this discussion has nothing to do with that.

    Slowpokeking, it looks like you didnt like being called sexist. That's not a policy question.

    You're talking about a specific post in a specific thread. That's not a policy question.

    Finally, we've established after post after post that you don't think your post was sexist. But we are not trying to convince you. It doesn't matter if you think it was sexist or not. The post was inappropriate for the thread and you were warned. That's that.

    Please do not misuse this thread further.



    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  8. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    So you agree that my post was inappropriate but got nothing to do with sexism or objectification?

    Perfect, problem solved, thank you. I will go no further.
     
  9. Ewok Poet

    Ewok Poet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2014
    So, wait...we're allowed to call sexists sexist? Is it fair game now?
     
  10. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    As with all of our rules, context is important. The usual rules about not flaming, trolling, etc. apply.

    If someone is violating our sexism policy, the best thing to do is bring it to a mod's attention.

    If someone is behaving in a sexist manner, their posts may be characterized as such, yes. But that doesn't mean someone being a sexist excuses escalation into a conflict, etc.

    And as always, it's better to say "that post/idea is sexist" than "you are a sexist" for similar reasons.
     
  11. Ewok Poet

    Ewok Poet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2014
    So, calling a POST sexist would then be acceptable? That is basically what I wanted to do. :)
     
  12. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    I can't speak for the current mods, but I think if you think someone's post is sexist you should be allowed to call it out.
     
  13. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval TV Screaming Service / FFS! star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Your best option is always to report a questionable post. Calling out content can seem like a reasonable option but try to help the responding moderator(s) to have only one inappropriate post to read/edit/rebuke/take action in response to... rather than a page, or multiple pages, loaded with a multi-post argument. If the person being called out by another forum member decides to fire back, such rebuttals tend to escalate and then more than just the initial problematic content ends up being addressed. By all means, stand up for yourselves, but attempt to not let a back & forth with the instigator avalanche into multiple problematic or derailing posts. We want the offended to be able to attend the culprit's public flogging... not be in the stocks next to them. :p
     
  14. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Sorry for the delay, holidays, etc.

    As Chorus has said, your best option in resolving what look like violations of board rules is to report posts. This lets a mod make a judgment call, and it avoids escalation into conflicts between users (especially since people get defensive when they're accused of things, even when true!).

    But I don't want anyone to think that they are not allowed to call out sexism, or that they have to sweep it under the rug to be dealt with privately. That's not cool either. There's got to be some middle ground between starting a big fight and between things being swept under the rug, out of public view.

    So it depends on context and judgment. If someone is really violating the rules and there should be consequences, you should report that post you think is sexist. That's the best way to get it resolved.

    But if it's a discussion, someone is spreading ideas that are sexist and they need to be confronted (in the sense of confronting bad ideas in a debate/discussion), then you can do that too. But there's always that risk of it spiraling into a flamewar.

    Bottom line is that sexism, whether on the boards and real life, is difficult to handle but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be called out publicly as well as dealt with by the authorities (mods in this case).
     
  15. Ewok Poet

    Ewok Poet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Understood and understood. :)
     
  16. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Bye.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2018
  17. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    So on another note, we had someone recently post a racist meme in the JC, inferring evolution in Africa stopped with gorillas. The meme also used monkey references towards African-Americans.

    A brave, just, anonymous mod edited it.

    A few years ago, when Obi-Zahn Kenobi was still terrorising us with his presence, he used a .gif from Blazing Saddles (where the old lady says "up yours, [n-word]!" to Cleavon Little's Sheriff), but aimed at former US president and civilian drone strike enthusiast Barack Obama.

    He was also only, merely edited.

    But I was banned once for saying the phrase "the red wedding" in a Game of Thrones TV series thread. Not what that was, not what to expect, just the phrase. Why? Because I ran afoul of the zero tolerance spoiler policy.

    Let's consider that. Be racist? Get an edit. Give away plot points or even potential plot points in a show without the spoiler tag? Ban.

    Now the spoiler policy is just that, policy, so it gives the apparently incapable-of-making-a-decision mods a clear black and white, offence:penalty approach. Since they can't make the right decision without a prescriptive map, maybe you need to make a clear policy that racist memes, images, comments or inferences are an automatic ban. That way, when confronted with a clear attempt to other a race on the JC, they can act as a community would expect and not send a message that racism isn't welcome.

    You also save them the trouble of having to grow a spine and make a clear, correct moral choice.

    So, can you add in any form of racial prejudice is a bannable offence?

    EDIT: Oh and the mod who edited without banning should explain why they took that easy route to the JC, unless they did it because they don't think racism's a big deal in which case no need to explain we got it from your actions.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
    CT-867-5309 likes this.
  18. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Five Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I was not the mod handling the original report, in fact I did not see the meme itself until maybe an hour ago, however, the user in question has been shown the door. I have edited anonymously before, not due to any form of cowardice (in fact I try to remember to add “anakinfan edit” when I make an edit) but due to either time constraints, typing on my phone, and/or not remembering that the current software does not show my user name at the bottom automatically when I edit a post.

    I’m certainly in favor of additions to the hate speech policy regarding racism, similar to what you proposed adding regarding sexism when you made this thread.

    I think the spoiler policy probably needs to be a separate discussion.
     
  19. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    The question isn't the spoiler policy; it's that apparently when you see racism the response is to edit and equivocate. If the user was shown the door it was >12hrs after the edit (and they retained an ability to post) which sends a terrible message to the community. And if the mod who edited had to consult with MS on a punishment, they should not be moderating plain and simple. Their judgement is not fit for the role. It beggars belief that in this day and age the administration cannot decisively act to limit hate speech, especially in the wake of all that has happened in the US. Shown the door 12hrs later? Would homophobia be 6, or 18hrs later? What about if they were Islamophobic - 24hrs?

    This isn't good enough, and I think we have a right to know that racism will be subject to a brutally intolerant regime of bans. Idiots will cry about freedom of speech, a concept they love but don't understand (spoiler: we're not a government so it doesn't apply oh dear I didn't put that behind spoiler tags watch the bans come in quicker than if I posted a racist evolutionary meme) but that's fine - as a community we don't want them to be free to post racist speech. Simple.

    EDIT: Worth reposting here from the JC:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  20. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Good. I was pretty disappointed (and honestly shocked) to see them still wandering around the boards after the edit was made.

    Ender's right: if anything warrants an automatic ban it ought to be both of his examples. I've personally seen bans for considerably less, and we filter for some considerably less offensive language automatically. My understanding was always that the purpose of the hate speech policy was to allow moderators, who are often somewhat hesitant to go outside the bounds of the rules for reasons I'm sympathetic to if no longer really all that onboard with personally, to act in a swift and suitably harsh measure precisely regarding such content, which often would be a TOS violation regardless. If a mod is not feeling sufficiently empowered in the moment when someone posts something so patently awful to deal out the ban, the policy is not working as intended. I don't necessarily know what the fix is - perhaps stronger guidelines on moderator action in such instances (either publicly or in MS), or perhaps each forum needs an additional clause in its board specific rules. But it really shouldn't be allowed to happen again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
    harpua and Ender Sai like this.
  21. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    At a minimum the mod has to be accountable to the users and explain their tepid, timid, inadequate action. Ideally you should stand them down.
     
  22. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz JC Head Admin & Community Manager star 9 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Since we upgraded to XenForo v1.5, post editors are no longer automatically shown. Actually, there's no way to have the boards show anything other than that infuriating "A moderator did a thing teehee" message, because apparently accountability is not cool. So, as more recent mods might not be aware of our old policy, we are going to start manually adding the editor's name manually to the end of the post, just like in the old days.
     
  23. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Ok but that doesn't address the fact that the moderator in question saw an emphatically racist meme and felt that an edit to remove the meme was sufficient. Which therefore suggests people who hold those views are welcome in the community, and if they share them all that will happen is less than a slap on the wrist.
     
  24. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz JC Head Admin & Community Manager star 9 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Yes, I was not addressing that. Sharp eye!

    But yeah, you are completely right. Such trash should be an immediate ban, and not a slap-on-the-wrist 24 hours thing.
     
  25. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Yeah, the "edited by a moderator" thing is annoying. Come on, people... post your names on that ****.