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Amph Shane Black's The Predator

Discussion in 'Community' started by Adam of Nuchtern, Jun 24, 2014.

  1. Adam of Nuchtern

    Adam of Nuchtern Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
  2. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    So, I caught a preview showing. Yeah, it's not a good one. Shane Black needs to stop putting kids in his movies (though, honestly, the kid isn't that bad here, it's still really not necessary to make the plot revolve around him- and they kinda gloss over the fact that he kills several people). I'm starting to think I just don't like the movies Shane directs/writes (outside of Lethal Weapon), but this is definitely one of his weaker efforts. The humor usually works, however- at least when you can understand it since so many characters mumble through their accents.

    The first half isn't bad, actually. But the second half is kind of a mess. The Busey stuff is not followed up on at all (though according to thecredits, stills from P2 are used), you really don't care about the characters (Olivia Munn is probably the only somewhat developed character in the movie- and she gets saddled down by wild plot leaps and exposition), there are big leaps in character behavior (why Stargazer goes after them I have no idea), the action scenes, especially later on, are also poorly shot (I honestly couldn't tell what happened in most of those scenes- even the "hero" shots), the Mega Predator is unnecessary (really, just Predator vs Predator, even if it was a "wolf" is interesting enough on it's own and was actually a good opening hook) and has sometimes spotty CGI (not to mention it's a letdown going to a CGI monster after they have such a great looking practical regular Predator in the film).

    The Mega Predator apparently has some kind of deployable exoskeleton ability but if Munn's character didn't literally go "Did you see that?" and describe what happened I'd have never known because I couldn't even see it when I started to look for it afterwards.

    And then there's no explanation for that final scene and how the characters get there/are allowed to be there.
    And, man, that Predator Killer suit is stupid. I get it, you directed Iron Man 3, but, still, really? Given that the pod was coffin-shaped, I actually thought that either Dutch or Royce might emerge as the "Predator killer"- and while even then I thought that would be silly, it's still way better than what we got.

    The grand motive given to the Predators is one of the weaker, random, plot leaps later in the film but what really annoys me is that they try to retcon the motives of the hunters from the first two films.
    It's like, man, sometimes a spinal column trophy is just a spinal column trophy, ya know?

    Ultimately, it feels like it was a movie that had an idea for the beginning and the end but no real idea of what the middle should be so they filled it in with "Group 2". They should have kept things to Munn, Busey, Sterling and Holbrook, as everything centered around Stargzer was actually pretty good.


    Xmas has always been a key release date- though usually used for blockbusters to have legs over the January/early Feb dumping ground vs racking in the big bucks opening weekend. 007, Titanic, Lord of the Rings & King Kong would be notable xmas window releases prior to the last 10 years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
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  3. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

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    Nov 12, 2012
    yah I really dig Predators a lot too. It may be one of those Legacy Sequels/ Borderline Remakes at times but the ensemble is pretty great. Each one is distinct and even their costume designs make them stand out. Good ensemble casting may be this series secret weapon, next to decapitations and ripping out skulls. Also I get the feeling Larry Fishburne's part may have been Dutch in an early draft. And while this one is very deliberately paced, it isn't as irritatingly slow and dull as the non-Predator stuff in the AVP movies. The Predator redesign is cool although I don't quite like the new guys without their mask on, and I always get a tad irked when they have the "new" baddie beat up on the old classic baddie to make the new guy seem more badass. but, overall, this is a pretty solid entry in the series, certainly better than the AvP movies, and not sure why it gets lumped in as a lame sequel. It's very well done with some cool twists. It also builds out the mythology of their being bigger fish Predators who evolve their tactics. Although with both AvP Requiem and Predators, nobody had dropped a "You're one ugly M*****" line in awhile (there's a really weak "get to the chopper" in AvPR that is best left ignored)

    Well, gotta go crash out for a few hours and then go see me some The Predator, whoohoo!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
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  4. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Dutch was in Robert’s original draft from the late 90’s- not sure how much was changed to the final version, so not sure if you can equate specific character roles.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  5. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

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    May 22, 2000
  6. TiniTinyTony

    TiniTinyTony JCC Game Winner star 6 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2003
    I started watching Screen Junkies "Cram It" video concerning all the Predator movies and forgot that the trophy they gave Danny Glover was a gun from the 1700s and that was potentially going to a lead to a pirates and predators movie. I wonder if studio executives thought that idea would be too ridiculous lol.
     
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  7. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 19, 2015
    I hate to keep harping on the recent AMC series "The Terror," but that show would have been every bit as good if they'd replaced the supernatural polar bear with the Predator.
     
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  8. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Yeah, I wish they had gone the period piece route. There's really only 4 ways forward for the franchise now:

    1) P5, continuing (and, hopefully, wrapping up) the stuff set in motion in P4- ideally by wrapping up the loose ends from P3 in the process and ditching/retconning the hella-stupid ending from P4 as fast as possible.

    2) Predator vs Pirates prequel. Just because I think it's one people have waited the longest to see.

    3) Predator vs Samurai prequel. Just because the setting and match-up would seem much more interesting/evenly-matched than pirates (especially if the Predator ditches/loses the shoulder cannon).

    4) AVP3. The first two aren't really cancelled out of continuity yet and would seem like a better forum to explore the greater space-centric Predator conflicts. And maybe finally bring in the Colonial Marines since that's really the only other thing people want in an AVP to begin with.
     
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  9. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    If it could his weight alone, he wouldn't need to be holding on to Harrigan's arm, now would he? He needed both at the start and then let's go of the disc, thus needing Harrigan alone to hold himself.

    Nope, he was also experienced much like the one in the first film. So that's not why he goes for the bomb.
     
  10. Dannik Jerriko

    Dannik Jerriko Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 12, 2017
    I just watched The Predator and I completely agree with @The2ndQuest. I was pretty disappointed by this movie. The movie actually started out well, but descended in quality. I cared little for any of the human characters and found myself rooting for the predator.
     
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  11. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

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    Nov 12, 2012
    short version: I really dug it quite a lot, actually! It was what I wanted when I heard it, Shane Black quirkiness rapid fire dialogue patter and bloody Predator mayhem. Now I got gripes (gak, kid not needed, that's an 80s throwback that needed to stay in the 80s and the ending is weird sequel bait) but, like Predators, nothing sinks it for me and I was having way too much fun. The one liner about the secret hidden base may be in the running for one of my favourite jokes in a movie in 2018. And I liked this crew a lot, decent fun ensemble. Although the movie does seem to take more than a few plot notes / world building from Predators either intentionally or not. But I did like the look of the bigger badder Predator unmasked than the one in Predators.

    My OCD continuity gripe, which may still have an answer, is I'm pretty sure when they show pictures of the first two Predators, one is labeled 1987 and the next one is labeled 1990, when the movie itself mentions the Predator incidents happened in 87 and 97 and were getting more frequent. But that's the only continuity problem I see. If I even read it right.

    But, yah, me likey. Still the first is the best easily but this may be a lock at my #2.

    "I offer time advantage."
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  12. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    That line is probably the one positive thing that will stick with me from this film.
     
  13. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 20, 2012
    "The Predator" will make you wish someone would tear your skull and spinal column out, just so you can stop experiencing this movie.
     
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  14. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 3, 2002
    Well this was better than it had any right to be. I was actually entertained throughout via the funny banter of "the loonies". I wonder if/when Munn will get a breakout role. I mean really, she delivers well.

    Still, anyone calling this bad will not get an argument from me. It's messy, and there is zero suspense. My prediction is right that I would place it as worse than Predator and Predators but better than everything else.

    My head canon does not acknowledge the little ball as the stealth blur technology. That is built into what they wear on their bodies.

    I dislike the now typical fight where a large or strong being grabs and throws someone to hurt them and present a challenge while just really giving them more time to kill the baddy.

    So. The first Predator was a renegade human sympathizer. I like that.
     
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  15. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 8

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Dark Horse did a comic issue about how he got that gun
     
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  16. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 20, 2012
    Was it a tie-in to the film? Did it come out in the 90's?
     
  17. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 8

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Don't know but don't think so. Don't know, read it in a Dark Horse Presents* TPB.
    * or something like that
     
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  18. TiniTinyTony

    TiniTinyTony JCC Game Winner star 6 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2003


    I found the Predator 1718 comic with a quick google search. The site I found has a lot of porn ads so I won't link to it and get banned but it's read comic online dot to if you're looking for it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
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  19. vin

    vin Chosen One star 5

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    Dec 16, 1999
    Porn ads are only generated based on your url history.
     
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  20. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

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    Nov 12, 2012
    much longer take (check out every Thursday at www.viewmag.com Plug!)

    Writer and director Shane Black (Lethal Weapon, Iron Man Three, The Nice Guys) always has a way of combining big action '80s style throwbacks with rapid fire dialogue patter and extremely quirky characters. Now he sets his particular flashy style on the long running sci-fi horror franchise with The Predator. Black actually was in the original Predator film as the victim Hawkins so it's kind of neat after 30 years to see him circle back to the creature but instead of being on screen, he's orchestrating the carnage. The result is a lot of fun and very bloody, a middle ground between extreme Shane Black oddball misfits and extreme Predator mayhem. There are a few things that are a bit lame, this seriously did not need yet another precocious kid in peril, but overall the movie is a blast as lazers, bullets and body parts are flying.
    American sniper Quinn (Boyd Holbrook) is doing a black ops assassination mission when a space ship crashes and out pops a killer hunter space alien. A government black ops team led by the ruthless Traeger (Sterling K. Brown) calls it The Predator and brings in scientist Casey (Olivia Munn) to inspect the creature. Meanwhile, Quinn has stolen some Predator technology and has sent it back to his ex-wife (Yvonne Strahovski) and his son, Rory (Jacob Tremblay) for safe keeping which causes all kinds of trouble. Quinn is loaded up onto a military prison truck with other criminal misfits like Nebraska (Trevante Rhodes), Coyle (Keegan-Michael Key), Baxley (Thomas Jane) and others but things get crazier when a bigger and nastier Predator arrives. It not only wants take out the first one but all of the humans that get in its way and the little human that stole its technology.
    The secret weapon in the long running Predator series is, aside from all the spines being ripped out by murderous space aliens, is the good movies hold together based upon the strength of the ensemble of characters that go up against the space alien hunter. The cavalcade of crazies who make up Quinn’s crew to take on the Predator are all really great and each gets in hilarious moments, especially Key who is constantly throwing out jokes and crazy lines. There is an exceptional amount of quipping in the film which may be a signal of what happens to many horror franchises as it inevitably slides into self-parody, especially a sci-fi horror franchise like Predator which is about an edge away from camp anyway. But the quipping and jokiness is really just a part of Shane Black’s style in all his movies. Like there is a secret underground lab here, which makes sense for this type of movie, but he has the attendant make a quip which is so tired and lame it’s actually gold.
    Holdbrook is a decent lead but the best in the crew is the back and forth between Key and Jane as the two old war buddies who constantly snip at each other. Munn has some decent reactions to the Predator as she is fascinated by it from a scientist perspective to the detriment of her own health. Brown as the government spook who cleans up after the Predators has some really funny one liners as a guy who does bad things yet loves his job as he’s willing to off innocent people to get Predator technology. Strahovski is basically just a random mom character but she’s charming which is nice since she plays a stone cold psychopath on Handmaid’s Tale. These are not deep characters nor do they really go through anything approaching an arc or growth but they are much more interesting than the usual blank horror movie fodder.
    Tremblay is playing yet another child with health problems which is quite the roster of messed up characters he’s acquiring off of Room, Wonder and Book of Henry. And this is a pretty funny movie but he is a kid who is suffering from Asperger’s and yet he is intuitive enough to be able to use advanced Predator technology which drags his scenes down. Although he does get in a pretty wild bit where he goes out Trick or Treating with a Predator mask on and mayhem ensues. The dad and kid stumbling onto advanced alien technology is a bit of an old sci-fi cliché but Black puts in enough unique spin on moments to make it worthwhile.
    The last franchise instalment, 2010's Robert Rodriquez produced Predators, was a solid if somewhat uninspired entry in the series that was a decades later legacy sequel / borderline remake of the 1st film. This version of The Predator really doesn't take the sort of remake path that the last two sequels did as this one has a pretty original concept with nifty Predator universe building ideas. However, oddly, some of the biggest new ideas in The Predator are actually things that popped up in the 2010 film. There's a Predator dog in this movie that terrorize the humans which basically also happened in Predators with Predator boars. Although in this movie, there is a lot more character to the Predator dog and one of them is even sort of tamed as a companion. Which is a strange, old school somewhat quaint blockbuster notion of “hey, the monster is now our pet!” but it fits in with the vibe of Shane Black's movies. Also in the 2010 and 2018 films, there are larger, more evolved and nastier Predators that beat up on the classic Predator to show how badass they were. It's always kind of weak in a monster movie where the new monster beats up the monster from the last movie to show how awesome it is and that has happened in the last three Predator movies with this one, Predators and 2007's Aliens Versus Predator: Requiem with the Predator/Alien.
    The bigger Predators in the 2010 film looked cool with the mask on but when the mask came off they had a weirdly not terrifying face. The bigger Predator in the 2018 film dispenses with the mask entirely and has a nasty, bulky design but it is a entirely CGI FX creature which sometimes looks a little fakey, simply due to the size and how it moves compared to the man in suit look of the original. But the larger Predator in this movie has a really nasty vibe and even gets in a moment where it translates to the humans before hunting them saying, “I offer you time advantage” which is such a weirdly, creepy line to say.
    There is a kind of tonally jarring sequel bait franchise potential extending ending here, which implies more of a direct sequel. That would be different for the Predator franchise and not as much fun because the cool thing about it is that the Predator goes up against something and someone new each time. Also the kills get progressively more messier throughout the film. One of the earliest, more shocking images in the film is when the Predator is revealed by from cloaking device by being covered in blood. The Predator fight against the bigger more aggressive Predator is a shocking bit of curb stomping. The finale involves a full on Predator hunt in the forest at night which has some great moments of the Predator jumping down from the trees and taking out its prey. Also there is a darkly hilarious moment where a random solider tries to use a Predator spinning star that swings back on him and it completely messes the guy up.
    The Predator is a crazy sequel to an already crazy franchise. It stumbles a bit by prioritizing some of the least interesting characters and the film is sort of tonally all over the palce but that is part of its madcap, insane bloody charm. There’s rapid fire jokes, crazy people babbling, and space aliens on missions of murder. It’s a lot. But it’s never boring!
     
  21. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    I was thinking about that line -- "Only in the hottest years, this happens. And this year, it grows hot."

    This doesn't really make sense for a hunter that uses infra-red. The external body temperature of a human is 93 degrees, maybe hotter if the temperature is very hot. This would make a human body indistinguishable from his hot jungle surroundings. And if they mean hotter than 100 degrees, then human would appear blue (cooler) and his surroundings would be red in the Predator's vision, but that's not how it is in Predator. (Also, I don't think it ever gets over 100 degrees under a shaded jungle canopy.)

    Really, the Predator would want to hunt in some place like Alaska. His infra-red vision would be very effective there.
     
  22. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Not quite. See, when the Predator's helmet is on as shown here...

    [​IMG]

    A lot of the external heat is filtered so that the humans and animal life stand out. This makes it ideal to see them even when trying to conceal themselves in the jungle, which is why it could see Dillon and Mac when they conspired to kill him, could see all the tripwires, could see in the dark, etc.

    [​IMG]

    Removal of the helmet fits in with what you're positing. But this was abandoned in the sequels, in favor of having the vision being the same regardless of the helmet. In "Batman Vs Predator III: Blood Ties", the Predators couldn't see Mr. Freeze when he was not wearing his suit, in his headquarters.

    [​IMG]

    In absence of body heat, they're blind to their target so long it doesn't move. As the first AVP film showed, yes, humans would stand out in the cold. The other reason for the heat reference, though, is that heat brings conflict. In the first film, there's a military rescue operation that brings a lot of conflict and that catches the Predator's attention. In the second film, it was the drug war in Los Angeles. Thus the hunt takes place in areas of conflict and often with heat, which aggravates the conflict.
     
  23. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Yeah, it's a shame they didn't expand on that notion in a modern setting- the various conflicts in the middle east heat would certainly fit the bill. Even the conflict in Syria was partially caused by migration resulting from droughts and global warming, so there'd be a lot of ways to tie things in thematically.
     
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  24. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 20, 2012
    There are a lot of missed opportunities in this franchise.
     
  25. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    I agree- but I think this most recent film makes that the most obvious. The franchise being on ice for a decade is really where all these "shoulda" storylines should have been done. AVP was its own thing (and eventually missed opportunities of where to take itself). Predators was a fine idea- not really much in the way of missed possibilities beyond there not being a direct sequel/follow-up (yet).

    This movie, though, tries to set new stuff into motion but has problems following up anything from one scene to the another within itself, let alone the franchise as a whole. There are more missed opportunities in this film by a mile- so many, in fact, that it makes you look back at all the others leading to this and make them seem even more numerous.