Discussion in 'Literature' started by Gruntz, Aug 6, 2018.
The reason that the Empire of the Hand folded mid-NJO --- and why Baron Fel made the transition to the Chiss Ascendancy --- is because the Yuuzhan Vong effectively wiped out all of the Unknown Regions Terrors that the Hand had committed to protecting the galaxy from.
EU canon did establish that a Vong force had been hiding in the Unknown Regions for decades, so in my headcanon said force had been scouting out the various UR terrors over the years in addition to the Republic/Empire/New Republic, and maybe even battling some of them (which could also explain how Czulkang Lah was a military veteran by the time of the invasion). Then when the main Vong fleets arrived in 25 ABY, they sent some of their forces to the Unknown Regions to subdue all of the terrors. It was a bloody two-year-long campaign that ended with all of the terrors licking some pretty severe wounds.
The EOTH was content for those two years to watch their enemies destroy each other, so they sat out the battles and felt like they could afford to send Jag's detachment to the New Republic's aid at Ithor. Parck and Fel spent their time as diplomats, strengthening their ties with the Chiss Ascendancy and laying the groundwork for the Fels to be welcomed into the Ascendancy's fold. By 27 ABY, all of the UR terrors were so subdued that the EOTH felt like they could go ahead with their plan to join the Chiss Ascendancy in order to spread their influence within that government, all while leaving a skeleton military force to guard their borders and make occasional forays into enemy territory (the Killiks weren't strong enough yet to be considered a threat, as Lomi and Welk had only just arrived). Formbi alludes to this skeleton force when he tells Luke "You might see the Empire of the Hand again" in The Joiner King.
When Jag becomes the leader of the Imperial Remnant, the EOTH is still attached to the Fel family, which is why Baron sends them to help Jag fight Daala in Fate of the Jedi. Jag is still very dedicated to the EOTH's mission of guarding the galaxy's borderlands, which is what he was raised to believe in from birth. The continuing mission of the EOTH is considered such a military secret that only a select few top Remnant individuals know about it. He doesn't even tell Jaina.
It's not perfect, but it at least attempts to reconcile the absolute mess that was the EOTH in old EU canon.
My view was different.
* Jagged Fel had orders to keep the Hand of Thrawn secret from the New Republic even as late as the New Jedi Order period. He referred to the Chiss Ascendency as a way of telling the truth "from a certain point of view." The Chiss, by that point, had joined the Hand of Thrawn but were not its entirety.
* The Hand of Thrawn was never actually the Galactic Empire, despite what Admiral Parck thought, but more like a Unknown Regions NATO. There were Imperial colonies but most of the membership of the organization was willing and decidedly not fascist but still part of a military alliance.
* The Yuuzhan Vong actually did fight the Unknown Regions for the better part of a couple of decades but often used proxy races and elite forces under the previous Warmaster Czulkang Lah. Czulkang was a far more reserved commander and it was his takeover by Tsavong Lah that switched the Vong from "take territory, colonize it, move on" to "mad dash to Coruscant."
They literally just bypased the Hand of Thrawn and Unknown Regions to fight. Jagged Fel was angry as the Hand SHOULD have joined the fight after that point.
* The deaths of the NJO were dramatically off and actually something like a thousandth of the estimated numbers. 360 billion sentients died during the war and most of those were balforr trees on Ithor and the terraforming of Coruscant.
The trillion number included all manner of droids.
I'd also like to mention that the age of 250, after all those decades worth of near-death experiences, K'Kruhk dies peacefully in his sleep of natural causes.
He always figured that'd be what would do him in.
The Yevetha became extinct only 8 decades after the Yuuzhan Vong largely exterminated them.
I have always wanted to see the Battle of N'Zoth but my headcanon is that it was some of the fiercest fighting ever seen-both sides fought without giving or accepting quarter and the Yevetha were utterly vanquished.
Refusing any help from the GA they became extinct by 100 ABY.
This actually led to a crisis of faith among the Yuuzhan Vong Priest caste. The Yevetha's savagery, hatred for outsiders, refusal to surrender, and suicide attacks were things which absolutely showed them to be "worthy" by the Yuuzhan Vong's standards but left them extinct.
Their race was supposed to absorb other species into their ranks like this, not destroy them.
Combined with the destruction of Ithor, the fact the Jedi were possessed of the power to work miracles, and the stresses of the war--morale was plummeting by the end of the war.
I wonder how a hypothetical encounter with the Ssiruuk and Yuuzhan Vong would go.
I'm almost inclined to think the Vong WOULD have turned their entire fleet around to destroy them with "trap souls in droids" as an enemy but Tsavong Lah didn't actually believe it because it was too ridiculous.
Didn't the Vong help cause a collapse of the Ssi Ruu imperium?
As for the Yevetha-while I the Vong would have respected their tenacity and absolute refusal to quit, they still seemed to have no problem bombarding N'Zoth from orbit and leaving the species a broken ruin. And remember the Yuuzhan Vong attacked them upon request-the Fia of Galantos feared a resurgent Yevetha power and asked the Vong to deal with them.
I'd so rather pay to see the Yuuzhan Vong fight the Yevetha and or Ssi-Ruuk than watch the Resistance and First Order fight each other.
I like The First Order and Resistance just fine but the most interesting stuff they can do with them are during the Cold War.
The Yuuzhan Vong vs the Yevetha would have been awesome to see on screen.
Some The Old Republic headcanon
+ Humanocentrism in the Sith Empire comes from the Tapani humans who aligned with the Sith Empire and passed on their Core World accents as well as snootiness to the previously cosmopolitan Sith.
+ The Sith Warrior and Sith Inquisitor were both "Light Side" characters but they were probably better measured as "Noble Demons" or at least, not as evil as the Sith were supposed to be but goal orientated.
+ The Sith Empire and Republic signed a second peace treaty after the defeat of Zakuul that resulted in two centuries of unexpected peace. It also destroyed the Sith Empire as its weaker members couldn't work together without an external enemy.
+ The Sith Empire went through a series of reforms that replaced slave labor with droid labor, increased the rights of aliens, and did not engage in constant bullying as well as power-jockeying. As such, it lasted about 200 years longer before collapsing into much more successful micro-states that were eventually absorbed into the Republic.
These include the Tion Hegemony, the Chiss Empire, the Tapani, and the Centrality. Without these reforms, the Sith would have been exterminated for a second time.
+ Zakuul replaced their Imperial government with a oligarchy and became the basis for the Corporate Sector Authority. They remained a prosperous but somewhat distant people ever since with their blood in many executives.
+ One group of Red Sith settled on a planet where they took a liberal, hippie interpretation of the Sith code that abandoned its darker elements to focus entirely on love. These people, influenced by the Sith Inquisitor's Nar Shadda cult, became known as Zeltrons.
+ The Outlander was actually a mythological figure created from the activities of an alliance of all the protagonists in the game.
+ Lana Beniko was actually involved with a number of the heroes and some of their love interests because as a Sith, she didn't believe in monogamy.
+ Theron tried hitting on Corso Riggs multiple times with no luck. Corso c
+ House Thul's Force sensitivity comes from a Sith.
+ When the Republic absorbed former Sith territories, it adopted a lot of its military jargon and military governorship intact.
Hutts aren't actually gangsters.
The largest crime syndicate in the galaxy is the Hutt crime empire and it wields a disproportionate amount of influence on Hutt Space's government but it's actually only a very small portion of their population which is involved in the galactic underworld.
Hutts are actually ruled by a feudal aristocracy of hereditary merchant-princes and warrior clans that are resting on ancient laurels. The majority of hutts act as servants to these houses with them being interpretators, toadies, or simply citizens of the realm.
Outside of Hutt Space, you'll mostly see the rich and powerful Hutts. Inside Hutt Space, you'll probably meet scrawny gas station attendants, frog farmers, truckers and a hundred other businesses.
That sort of makes sense with the division of hutt society into kajidics and the philosophy of kajidic itself.
The Hutts also do have martial history stretching back to the conquest of their own space and war with Xim the despot.
- The Celestials imprisoned Typhojem inside a rock. This rock would come to be known as Korriban.
- TOR is a holodrama filmed in the New Republic era.
+ Imperial Royal Guardsman Kir Kanos was on Jakku, attempting to kill Luke Skywalker, when he ended up defeated and forced to confront the true evil of the Contingency. Shaken, he ended up joining the Church of the Force and taught staff and blade fighting to the local children.
His greatest student was a young girl not even born during that time period.
+ Rey heard the majority of her stories about Luke Skywalker from Lor San Tekka.
+ The Knights of Ren are actually the Knights of Revan. The name just got shortened over the millennium.
+ Snoke is NOT a Knight of Ren but revived the ancient order of Revan because he knew the Dark Lord of the Sith was a idol to disgruntled teenagers everywhere.
+ Snoke is, until he's stated to be something else, a Sorcerer of Tund/Rand.
+ Snoke was a mid-level Dark Jedi Master/Sorcerer with a talent for telepathy and illusion. Kylo Ren was stronger than him from the time he was sixteen onward, let alone at the time of TLJ. Snoke was only kept from death by the respect Kylo had for him.
+ Kylo Ren began contemplating usurping his master the moment he insulted his mask. It was a bigger dealbreaker than telling him to murder his dad.
+ Luke DID ignite his lightsaber over Kylo Ren but the evil he was sensing and the Force was telling him to destroy was SNOKE, who was hiding in the shadows like the boogeyman.
The Phantom Menace
- Ralrracheen was Senator Yarua's aide and was seen in TPM.
Attack of the Clones
- Ma'kis'shaalas fought in the arena battle and survived alongside Ekim Ryelli, Barriss Offee, Voolvif Monn, Pablo-Jill, Quinlan Vos and at least two other Jedi to be rescued by clone troopers.
- Belsed-Qan Idan, Tassida Judrelle, Chellemi Chuovvick and Wollwi Enan fought in the arena battle. None of them survived.
- The original Clone Wars cartoons still happened, though started a month or two after AOTC. Nelvaan also happened though happened before the Siege of Mandalore. Also Asajj Ventress was recruited in the time frame of these episodes.
- The Barriss Offee of Season 5 was an impostor from a group of Force users wanting to get the Jedi out of the Clone Wars. Ultimately, the plan failed after it was exposed and the real Barriss was rescued. This fake Barriss and her allies were subsequently killed or disappeared by Palpatine's agents. The real Barriss still dies in Order 66 on Felucia.
- Queen Neeyutnee was assassinated sometime after the Yoda episodes in Lost Missions/S6. A new election saw Apailana elected.
- The Clone Wars episodes ended approximately 10-11 months before ROTS (the dates from Galactic Atlas are part of the internal inconsistencies from the various Clone Wars timelines).
- Oppo Rancisis perished in the Siege of Saleucami prior to the Battle of Coruscant. He was replaced by Anakin Skywalker.
Revenge of the Sith
- Padme became Force sensitive, at least in connections to Anakin, through her pregnancy with the twins. Leia was born with her eyes open and already awakened subconsciously in the Force while Luke - while already immersed - had his connection dampened by his sister's presence that remained for years.
- P1 is Lightmaker, P2 is Duchess Senna and P3 is Amity's Arrow (pretty obvious isn't it?).
- Prior to the Battle on Garel, Ezra often met up with Zare Leonis between episodes.
- The Deviant and Heartbound were Nebulon-B escort frigates at the Battle of Scarif.
- Mart Mattin was a member of Green Squadron at the Battle of Scarif and survived, though his X-wing was damaged and kept him out of the Battle of Yavin.
- The Liberator fought at the Battle of Scarif and survived.
- A female pilot led Green Squadron at the Battle of Scarif.
A New Hope
- The three pilots seen when Luke returned were members of Green Squadron. They were forced to return to Yavin 4 early when their X-wings were severely damaged.
- It is rumoured that Dannik Jerriko is a 1,000 year old Anzati vampire. This is untrue as the Anzati look like they do in Legends and Jerriko looks nothing like them.
The Empire Strikes Back
- General Veers was killed when Hobbie rammed his lead AT-AT. Igar, commanding Blizzard Three, took command of the remnants of Blizzard Force.
- It took almost a month for the Falcon to get to Bespin from Anoat. Luke had his vision about a week before his friends arrived at Cloud City.
Return of the Jedi
- Tycho Celchu was a member of Rogue Squadron at the time of the Battle of Hoth and survived. He was reassigned to Green Squadron for the Battle of Endor then reassigned to an X-wing unit for the final battles. He and Wedge were still friends.
- Sila Kott and Red Two were last minute replacements for the original Red Three and Red Two for the Battle of Endor (who had either fallen ill or had gotten injured somewhere else). Red Two was Horton Salm's nephew and that's why they appeared like they were the same person just younger sounding.
- General Crix Madine commanded the Independence at the Battle of Endor. Admiral Firmus Nantz commanded the Restoration while Admiral Voon Massa commanded a Duros-crewed heavy cruiser at the Battle of Endor.
- Captain Gilad Pellaeon survived the Liberation of Lothal and returned to the Empire. He later commanded the second Chimaera at the Battle of Endor, which was the flagship of Admiral Horst Strage in Death Squadron's Third Group. Sloane commanded the Second Group. Harrsk commanded the Fourth Group.
- Kalback and Ragab were the Mon Calamari officers standing with Haash'n behind Mon Mothma at the briefing. Kalback wore the uniform while Ragab wore the "engineer's uniform".
- Hiram Drayson was the human male officer standing to Walex Blissex's left at the briefing.
- The four Ishi Tib delegates at the briefing on Home One each commanded four of the donated Ishi Tib ships in the Alliance Fleet.
- Sesfan served on the bridge of Home One during the Battle of Endor. He was seated behind Ackbar's left shoulder and was the one to inform Ackbar of the approaching Star Destroyers and not Verrack (who was busy bringing the ship's weapon systems online). He later served on the Raddus and unfortunately was killed.
- Shriv Suurgav and Danger Squadron fought in the Battle of Endor, though suffered heavy casualties (thus why Iden Versio and Del Meeko were assigned to the unit at Naboo three weeks later).
The Force Awakens
- In addition to the rest of the Galactic Senate and New Republic Fleet Command, the First Order also wiped out their allies in the Republic, believing they had served their use. To say they were shocked by this betrayal was an understatement (Carise Sindian - who'd lost the governorship of Birren following her scandal was among those to be killed).
- While Poe's lead unit of twelve X-wings went after Starkiller Base, a second wing led by Kare Kun attacked one of the Resurgent-class Star Destroyer dockyards on the edge of the system. This is why there were more pilots then noted X-wings seen at D'Qar after the battle.
The Last Jedi
- PZ-4CO did survive the Battle of Crait (despite being unseen).
- General Ematt was among those to be killed at Crait.
- Wes Janson was a member of Phantom Squadron under Wedge Antilles and was responsible for finding most of the pilots. He was reassigned to diplomatic shuttle duty at the time of the Battle of Jakku as 'punishment'.
- Wedge and Janson were members of the Resistance under Leia. They were on the Home One during the Evacuation of D'Qar locating fresh supplies and/or locating stranded New Republic task forces in the Trans-Hydian Borderlands.
- Though Ryloth was independent, a number of Twi'leks including Yendor and Hera were allies to Leia. The Rylothian government ordered the group to stay home rather then come to Leia's aid at Crait due to the fear that the First Order had more then one superweapon in the Unknown Regions.
- Wedge (in canon) was an only child though his parents were still killed by pirates.
- Norra Wexley suffered a heart stroke shortly after the Battle of Jakku and was taken back to Akiva to recover with her sister. She never fully recovered though was still alive at the time of the Hosnian Cataclysm. Snap became Wedge's foster son at Norra's request because he'd yet to turn eighteen when it happened.
- Keyan Farlander, Corran Horn, Kyp Durron and Dorsk 81 do still exist, though they aren't Force sensitive. Keyan served with the Alliance for years and flew a B-wing at Endor. Corran served in the NR post-Jakku for some years before returning to serve in the Corellian Defence Force. Kyp and Dorsk 81 were part of Han's shipping conglomerate and effectively run it in Solo's absence.
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More to come!!
There's a holodrama titled "No one Cares About Coleman Kcaj" produced during the early years of the Empire, and that as time went by some people began to take its events as historical facts.
In my headcanon the trap for Han and Leia in ESB is a touch more elaborate. Boba Fett reviewed Avenger's sensor data and immediately figured out how the Falcon "escaped," deducing that her hyperdrive was damaged. Not wanting the Falcon to use its backup hyperdrive to go to Ison, where he would face competition from the pirates controlling that system, Fett suggested to Vader that Executor and Avenger immediately jump to the Anoat system (with the Falcon in tow) under the pretense of delivering Rebel prisoners from Hoth to the Crypt. From Anoat, Bespin was the only viable destination via backup hyperdrive, and Fett knew he and Vader could leverage Lando, making it the ideal place to trap the heroes.
The Prime Jedi and founder of the Jedi Order on Ahch-to in canon is actually Cade Skywalker from Legends who traveled back in time into the World Between Worlds on Legends Lothal after Legacy in a deathstick induced haze and ended up forming an alternate timeline, the canon universe.
The source of the Dark Side that canon Palpatine senses in Aftermath is actually the dark side emanations of his Legends counterpart emanating across universes.
In Legends, the GFFA has entered a period of technological stagnation-whatever progress there is in any technological or scientific sphere is marginal and inconsequential-either irrelevant in the sense that it is carried out in a government or megacorp lab, or maybe better holovid technology for the civilian consumer.
In short technological progress is still happening but has basically reached a point in which no technological advances of any significance are on the horizon and don't appear to be.
Also given the vast nature of galactic society-whatever progress does happen takes a long time to be distributed and often never reaches everyone. Better navicomputers developed in Coruscant's technical institute will likely never be used by the folks of the outer rim.
More efficient IR weapon systems never reach GA soldiers, etc...
Progress is basically stagnant.
Off-topic, but going by the retcons in Star Trek Discovery (where it's basically implied super advanced holographic tech etc existed in Kirk's time but they just coincidentally never used it on the Enterprise NCC-1701), technology seems to be stagnant from the 23rd to 24th century in Star Trek too. Although to be fair this isn't entirely Discovery's fault, Star Trek the Animated Series showed the 1701 already had a holodeck a full century before Next Generation.
As for Star Wars, Dawn of the Jedi showed the Rakata already had high technology. So basically in Legends everything is just reverse engineered from old Rakata tech, and the actual galactic citizens rarely learned to innovate for themselves, which might explain the millennia long tech stagnation.
Tahiri's and Darth Caedus' flow walk back into the past from Inferno to SBS, created a timeline where Anakin Solo survived.
Snoke was a Dark Side Warlord in the EU after Legacy Vol. 2 that used a ritual to bring back Abeloth and go back in time to before Abeloth originally met the Father, Son and Daughter. He killed Abeloth there but was imprisoned by the Mortis trio and wasn't freed until their deaths in TCW and then prepared for his plans in TFA.
Discovery's holograms are like Star Wars'; just shimmery light projections. The Next Generation's holograms include force fields and replicated matter in order to feel "real". It's nowhere near the "break" certain parts of the Trek fandom have made it out to be, especially when you include the Animated Series (as you did).
I believe it was more the holographic communications that characters in DS9 acted was entirely new. I personally have a theory that sometime between Discovery and TOS, the Klingons hacked the holographic communications to pose as an Admiral ordering a bombardment of a Federation planet or some other sabotage, and they were discontinued by the time of TOS.