Awards Should "Best Child" be reinstated as a category for the Fanfic Awards?

That's not what I said in my post, Leona.

Nobody is suggesting putting every category to a vote.

The question is, should we change the list of categories at all? Is it open for revision? As VaderLVR's post says, of course that is possible, if we want it to be.

So I ask -- Why is a suggestion raised by Jaya, Breezy, and Ish, among others, worthy of a poll, while an idea floated by Layren and Gabri isn't?

My question was -- Why not have a discussion thread specifically dedicated to asking if people have suggestions for changing the category list? I really doubt Jaya and Layren are the only two people with good ideas worth thinking about.

The suggestion thread itself might have a discussion that results in a conclusion. For example, I think it's obvious Best Child would have been brought back without need for a poll.

But if you think people are too lazy to read a discussion thread and voice their opinion there, we could at least use a thread to figure out which questions to put to a poll. In other words, listen to all the suggestions at one time, and discussing which ones are worth considering further and which ones won't go far.

Instead of just making it up in random threads, putting Jaya's idea to a vote but shooting down Layren's.

 

This issue (the child category) came up in the survey we just did. That's why it's brought to a vote now. We could have simply ignored it and never brought it to a vote, but then there would have been complaints that we weren't addressing the issues raised in the survey. Either way, it seems we can't make everyone happy. So we're trying to make as many users happy as we can and a vote seemed the best way to do that.

It doesn't seem like a discussion is really needed as users can simply decide YES they want the category back or NO they don't.

The poem question could be addressed again later, after this awards, if needed. I don't think there's any hurry, is there? If someone doesn't want to nominate a poem they can simply leave that blank. If we try to hold a full scale survey of every category, the awards will be delayed, and the feedback we've gotten so far indicates that that is not what the majority of users want.

The question of the child category has been brought up much more than the poem category and we wanted to see what the users wanted. Since we only have the awards once a year now that gives us plenty of time to address the issue of the poem category before the next go-round.

Again, we're trying to pay attention to the needs and desires of the majority of users. Those who have an opinion about this matter can vote, those who don't can just ignore the poll. I'm not sure how the poetry category got brought into this, or became such a sticking point, but it was not addressed in the just completed survey so we're not going to put it to a vote at this time.

Maybe before the 2008 awards if it seems that users are concerned about that issue.

 

Returning a category to the awards seems a far more benign process than dropping an established category in terms of popular support and favor. It doesn't really need any discussion. However, if the public support for dropping the Poem Category persists then I would have no problem with opening it up to a discussion and poll after the Summer Awards.

 

And why was it decided not to consider the possibility of changing anything for this awards?

There has been a pre-awards discussion before every recent awards. Every time we've tinkered with details here and there. Why not do that this time?

Did a majority of survey respondents ask for bringing back Best Child? Sure, some people mentioned it there -- but there wasn't a question asking about awards categories. I'm sure if there had been, Layren would have mentioned dropping Best Poem. And anyone else with an idea specifically about categories would have made their suggestion too.

Instead, what you're doing is giving special treatment to one suggestion - allowing that suggestion to be considered for this awards - because a few people happened to bring it to your attention when the awards category list wasn't even specifically being discussed. That's completely unfair to everyone else, like Layren, who didn't raise their suggestion because they didn't know it would be ignored if they didn't.

Again, why can't there be discussion about this awards cycle? We didn't have a post-awards discussion last time because it was said the next awards are a year away and we'll discuss things then. Now that those awards are here, you're trying to shove it off to the 2008 awards! So nobody ever gets to discuss what they might like to see changed for the 2007 awards, because there was no discussion in 06 and there's no discussion now.

Nobody, that is, except the people who raised their issue in secret (the survey) before anyone else knew to raise theirs.

 

That's completely unfair to everyone else, like Layren, who didn't raise their suggestion because they didn't know it would be ignored if they didn't.

That's a substantial assumption to make.

 

Luna's survey summary doesn't mention dropping Best Poem, and it claims to relay all suggestions made. Therefore I don't think Layren raised her suggestion in the survey.

As for Layren's suggestion being ignored, I think two mods posting that her suggestion isn't up for discussion pretty much proves it's not being taken seriously. Whereas Jaya's suggestion is.

 

To be fair, the only reason I didn't make the suggestion before, was because I didn't *think* of it before until this poll came out. I was just trying to think of a way to mainstream and keep those who opposed due to number of categories happy, whereas those who wanted Best Child would be happy also. It was only an innocent suggestion on my part, and I don't particularly think it's being ignored, but I would definitely like to see some category discussion before the next awards. That's always generally been part of the routine and we haven't had any discussion about categories this year, that being said however, I don't want to do as much now, because we do want awards this summer after all, and it's already mid-June.

 

Things I agree upon: that everyone's ideas ought to be considered, and I'm a little confused as to why there wasn't a pre-awards discussion thread this year, given it's been so long since the last awards cycle. I certainly wouldn't assume that awards discussion belonged only in the fanfic survey. So that's my thoughts on that- there wasn't really a venue for discussing awards-specific things, and there possibly should have been. Hence, items of interest have been missed.

However, I realise that it's getting too close to the awards to do something so drastic as dropping a category. I'll grant that Best Poem isn't a great category- even though I once won it for a song parody I wrote (which I don't understand to this day, but hey, whatever...). When you have something that's so obscure, things that only tangentially count start getting included. But whatever my opinion on the category is, it ought to be addressed in the post-awards discussion.

My two cents.

 

I don't think we've ever said that we weren't going to have a Pre-Awards discussion.

This was merely a simple poll looking for a majority vote on a category that seems rather popular with a lot of our users.

 

I voted "no" for the Best Child Catergory only on the though that we had a "BIG BLOW OUT" discussion thread a few months ago about the Awards overall. I figured any major gripes/changes could be put to public opinion after this one.

That being said, if the public wants to add a last minute catergory, so be it; but to start disussing the over-haul of the catergories at this juncture would be counter-productive.

Layren's suggestion is a valid and justified one, no doubt in my mind about that (sorry poem writers); but as I said before major changes in the awards is bit of an overload now. The thread was a vote, the vote is done; and now we're going into familiar waters as the bickering is seemingly around the corner and this year's awards haven't even truly begun...

 

If there's going to be a pre-awards discussion anyway, then it makes absolutely no sense to have this poll now.

The proponents of restoring Best Child could have made their points in the pre-awards discussion. And as Commander-DWH points out, and Layren's explanation clarifies, people who weren't even thinking about awards issues until now might have come up with other ideas worth discussing (like Layren's).



The reason was explained. Even subtle baiting is wrong.

 

I've never even come across a poem on these boards - I have seen fan fics that don't have the normal structure of a story, though, but would that be a poem? Sometimes stuff can get a little too obscure......

Why don't we just get on with the awards, otherwise it'll have to be called the Autumn Equinox Awards instead!

 

I would be more inclined to tweak one of the categories to accomidate for several things. I know that Best Songfic sometimes doesn't have that many choices as does Best Poem. I'd also think that song parodies would fit in with them, so if we were going to take out Best Poem, I'd want a category to be tweaked so that the poem writers would have a place to be show cased. I hope that made sense...

And I was just bringing up something (best child) that I've wondered for a few years, and I've wondered just as much about the poem/songfic stuff, but honeslty, they're really different categories so I guess that was my idea for keeping both of them.

 

But we aren't taking out best poem.

 

Not yet, but the proverbial Pandora's box has been opened. I'm well aware that was not the original purpose of the thread, but there's nowhere else to take this discussion, really... so I think the main point we want to make is that ideas shouldn't be squished. I agree the discussion ought to be moved, but if it's going to be moved, there should be somewhere to take it.

 

Pretty useless category so I voted No.

 

While I agree children are a challenge to write, the same goes with the majority of characters in SW and the boards. It's a complex universe. I voted "no." I'm in the area of thinking that matches the Academy Awards. If a child actor has work which is considered and noted as being exemplary and profound, he/she would be nominated in the same categories as their fellow adult thespians. I'll stick with my life's philosophy: age doesn't or shouldn't matter.

 

I am all in favor of presenting topics for discussion to reach a decision if necessary, but if the only intent was to create a poll only to gather a majority opinion, why was it left open for comments? It seems to me that it was inviting discussion, which in its course has become broader to encompass other awards categories and the need or lack thereof for them.

 

Returning a category to the awards seems a far more benign process than dropping an established category in terms of popular support and favor.

Yet Best Child was dropped in the first place.

Why? If dropping an established category is less benign, then I must wonder why the category- or any category for that matter- was dropped along the line? Should we go back to the original Category that the Awards had when they first began?

Perhaps that would be best...[/sarcasm]


I don't think we've ever said that we weren't going to have a Pre-Awards discussion.

Yet if the Awards are in July/August and noms are already starting- isn't it getting a bit too late?

*raises brow* When do you plan on having it then? The day before noms start? Shouldn't noms already be starting, for that matter?

No one ever said that there can't be Pre-Awards discussion, but there's not really time to have it. Which then ends up being a case of "No, we're not going to have it".

This was merely a simple poll looking for a majority vote on a category that seems rather popular with a lot of our users.

Then you should disable commenting. Allowing comments is basically asking for discussion. We're fanficcers after all- we're wordy. *grins*

That being said, if the public wants to add a last minute catergory, so be it

Great. *smiles* Though the words "last-minute" bother me a bit.

but to start disussing the over-haul of the catergories at this juncture would be counter-productive.

Yes... Except we didn't do it sooner. And now we're paying for it, so to speak. And the question is "whose fault is that?" I'm not pointing fingers. *shrugs* Honestly, I don't know who should have thought of it. Perhaps we all should have gone "It's April, the Awards are in a couple of months, perhaps Pre-Awards Discussion wouldn't be amiss?" But really, someone should have done something.

I mean, ever since the last Awards, people have known they're going to be in the summer. I am a horrible procrastinator myself, but even I realize that if there's going to be a huge event coming up, I need to start planning for it months ahead of time.

Were the booths at CIV just suddenly decided upon? Or did we not have months notice? And I'm assuming that Lucas Arts didn't just draw names out of a hat three weeks before the convention, but spent at least a year planning.

Obviously the Awards aren't on the scale of CIV. But in regards to the boards, they ARE massive. And they NEED planning- and we can't wait until the last minute.

Yet we did, and now we're faced with several dilemmnas that really should have been discussed months ago, but weren't. And we can't just ignore the issues either.

but as I said before major changes in the awards is bit of an overload now.

*nods* Yeah, I agree. But when else can we do it? Mistakes were made. We can't change the past. We have to find a solution and move on.

The thread was a vote, the vote is done; and now we're going into familiar waters as the bickering is seemingly around the corner and this year's awards haven't even truly begun...

...The fact that you used "thread" contradicts the word "vote". Voting is not discussion. A thread warrants discussion.

Don't get me wrong- I've ignored the Awards for the last two years and I will be the first to say that I hate the bickering and drama and really wish that they'd just be totally scrapped. BUT- I don't consider this bickering. I consider this discussing something that should have been discussed months ago. And because we made mistakes and waited till the last minute, we're paying for the consequences.

Emotions are high, but so far, we seem to be keeping cool heads and I think this can be contained.

Why don't we just get on with the awards, otherwise it'll have to be called the Autumn Equinox Awards instead!

That's an idea.´ At the rate we're going, they'll end up that way anyways. *grins*


EDIT: Because Layren

 

The same could be said for discussion/evaluation to any and all categories, including Poem.

Child was put to a vote. Why isn?t Poem being given the same consideration?

What exactly is ?this? issue? Child reinstated as a category? Or removal of Poem?

A poll is a quick and easy way, but in opening it up for one, the mods have left the impression that it could be a possibility for other issues. The only difference between how the two categories are being treated is that one moderator doesn?t ?want to see Best Poem sacrificed in any way? as opposed to the moderator stance for Best Child, to which there appears to be no moderator opposition to the change.

I?m still unclear why the moderators started the poll in the first place. I thought the intention of picking an overseer was to allow the Overseer and his/her awards staff to deal with these kinds of issues (categories, etc.) and maintain the separation of moderators from the awards?

Honestly, a talented overseer could start an awards discussion thread and have a general feeling of what the board users want in a little more than a week?s time. It?s obvious from this poll thread that users are looking for a place to put in their two cents.

 

Our talented awards overseer selection with be announced later today.

This poll remains open until midnight board time.

 

I really didn't intend to cause this much trouble with my idea. Really the mods seem cursed if they do, and cursed if they don't. It's really kind of unfair, and part of what gives fanfic such a lousy reputation right now around the rest of the boards. It's really speaking highly of them in that they consult the users at all when they don't really have to but they do to see what we want. I hope that they don't end up so disgusted with trying to get a feel for the communities' needs that they stop talking to us altogether and making executive decisions without our input, or resign. So, hats off to you mods, and thanks for letting us speak out

 

Good grief - indeed!!

Only in Fan Fiction can a simple little suggestion get blown into something like this!