Should Count Dooku have been in The Phantom Menace?

Please me link me if there is another thread I should be discussing this on.

I think that had he been in TPM his role would've made a lot more sense in AOTC. He'd seem more fitting, as we'd know him a lot better. It would be interesting if he was in TPM, though had not been identified as evil yet, or most likely had not even turned yet. That makes AOTC all the more revealing and adds another surprise to the saga.

What do you guys think?

 

No...

 

No, I don't think so. He is not a main character. He is just a bad guy with connections to the Jedi.
Darth Vader, on the other hand, is a main character. He is the only bad guy in the saga that we really get to know. The only one we care about. That makes him unique.
Also, if we view Dooku too much as a good guy turning bad, his fall takes away from the impact of Anakin's fall.

 

He was still a member of the council right up till Qui-Gon died, right? I think putting him in the background of the funeral would've been good, because in AotC, we find out about his relationship with Qui-Gon.

 

Might've worked if they'd done it back then, but to do it now wouldn't make sense:

- It's a great pity our paths have never crossed before, Obi-Wan.

 

I bet the line was put in the movie to cover lucas mistake in the fact that Lucas didn't write the scripts all together but rights them one at a time. thats a big mistake. He missed out on a great chance to have some good character development with count dooku.
People would of cared for his character alot more if he was shown good in TPM and then we see he's bad in AOTC. This would accually help anakins story because i'm sure in episode 3 dooku doesn't become good again and dies as a Sith.
So when Yoda says "once you start down the dark path......." So we would see thats true because dooku wasn't able to become good again, and when anakin starts becoming bad we'll think "ooo man he aint never gonna be good again (if your a first time viewer)


Anyways so i say YES dooku should of been in TPM.

 

He was still a member of the council right up till Qui-Gon died, right?

Where is it ever said that Dooku was on the Jedi Council?

 

I doubt Dooku was ever in the Council, but his apprentice Qui Gon could have been. Interesting isn't it?

"If you would only follow the Code, you would be on the Council" - Obi Wan.

It is possible GL formulated Dooku into the Saga an example of one who decides to leave the Jedi Order because of some underlying reasons, and Qui Gon who also has "grievances with the Jedi", remains in the Jedi Order, who's apprentice was Obi Wan.

In this way, every character has a purpose, in the given time. In AOTC we learn that Dooku happens to have been Yoda's padawan.

I would dare to say that possibly Palpatine was aware of all this, therefore, chooses Dooku and convinces him (knowing the history of Yoda's past) to dismantle the Jedi order, after Maul's death.

 

Sorry about that, I meant to say Jedi Order. He left after Qui-Gon died, right?

 

No.

 

Yes he did.

JMasterLuke: I still don't think Dooku is supposed to be a tragic character. Well, he IS, but that's not what the film focuses upon. We should see him as a true villian.
It's quite possible, however, that the Jedi do try to talk to him in EpIII, to no avail. It would then be pretty clear that the dark side is serious business. It already is, but perhaps even more....

EDIT: Of course, once Vader starts striking down old friends and allies in cold blood, the dark side should be intimidating enough to the audience....

 

YES. He should have been, AND I will even go farther.

He should have been on the Jedi Council, and even better, if he had disagreed with Yoda and sided with Qui-Gon about training the boy.

One - we would be introduced to the villain we know almost nothing of.

Two - He would have MOTIVATION to leave the Jedi Order.

Three - Oh the wonderful theories and ridiculous insane ideas about Anakin's fall and Dooku's hand would be too much fun to watch...


To those of you who said "no", I have to ask, what is wrong with character development?

 

no itd be weird

 

>>>>I bet the line was put in the movie to cover lucas mistake in the fact that Lucas didn't write the scripts all together but rights them one at a time.

I don't buy that theory for a moment. For starters, there's the blindingly obvious fact that if you're writing three films, and you know exactly what has to be where when the third one ends, then that's your starting point; you work backwards.

Secondly, there's too many connections to Qui Gon in Dooku's character- the fact that Qui Gon doesn't follow the Jedi code, he goes against the council- he's a Jedi in name but not much else, and Dooku simply takes that mentality to the next logical step by leaving the Order.

Thirdly, the whole point of Count Dooku in AOTC is that his alignment is a mystery- at no point in the film do we know for certain which side he's on. Sure, he's got a Darth name and he calls Sidious "Master", but he's also plotting to overthrow him.

Fourthly, you don't just throw in a new character to be the "new" master for Obi Wan without a good reason for it.

Finally, we don't know what Episode III has in store. I assume that Dooku's character and motivations will be tied up, along with an example of why "once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny." Hopefully, we'll find out when and why he left the Jedi, and how it ties in with Palpatine's plans, and how Maul's death affected them.

I can't see any way that a cameo appearance from Dooku in TPM would be any better an idea than Boba Fett's cameo in ANH:SE. (Which wasn't a particularly good idea, and certainly didn't imporove either his character or the story for me...)

 

I don't buy that theory for a moment. For starters, there's the blindingly obvious fact that if you're writing three films, and you know exactly what has to be where when the third one ends, then that's your starting point; you work backwards.

All you have to have is an outline, and those can change as you write the story (ROJ, anyone?)

 

Didn't Lucas actually say that somewhere? That he just created an outline...?

 

He should of writen everything out because even Lucas didn't know about Dooku until he started writing AOTC. Remember the Sith Witch idea?

I think Lucas liked the idea of Qui Gons master as a sith and realised he didn't even talk about him or show him in TPM so he says in AOTC "the Mysterious Count Dooku"

And i hate that line "to bad our paths have never crossed" thats stupid. lucas just had to think of some way to cover his tracks that he missed out on this good character that he could of build up in TPM.

Its a shame, but what can you do...........ooo wait he could add him in TPM SE.

 

I think it's obvious that had Lucas considered the character of Count Dooku and his role in the Saga before writing TPM, he would've included him in TPM.

I'm not opposed to the idea of adding him in some small cameo role to TPM, though I really think Lucas just should've put him in the movie to begin with. It just would seem a bit stupid to put him in now.

"Oh here's a 15 second hologram scene of Dooku because we forgot to put him in in the first place..."

In my opinion, he should've had a tangible role in TPM.

 

I think the Saga would benefit a lot continuity wise if Dooku had been in TPM and Palpatine had been in ANH.

I'm not opposed to these additions but they would have to be done right. All we need is a hologram or small scene of Palpatine for ANH, though I think Dooku should've had a real role in TPM as I said before.

 

I would've liked to have seen Dooku somewhere in Qui-Gon's funeral. At first, no one knows who he is (just another Jedi), but his lines in AotC will be more meaningful ("I wish he were still around...").

 

Perhaps he and Qui-Gon could of talked on Courscant? It doesn't matter, but if it did and I was in a really bad mood, I would say George Lucas isn't giving much attention to his story and making it up as he goes along! Muwahahahaha!

 

Since TPM is kind of separated from the rest of the saga and the real war doesn't begin until AOTC, I think it's perfectly acceptable to have him introduced in AOTC.

 

dooku should have been in tpm. it would have been cool to see him talks with mace, quigon, or yoda. i think it would be cool for gl to add a scene to it once the PT is completed, and dooku could possibly pull quigon aside at some point. obi-wan could see dooku, but dooku wouldn't say anything to him.

on the other hand, aotc needed a new major villian. jango was practically the same as boba, so we already knew him.

 

So basically, your reasoning for why he should have been in the film was that "It would have been cool." That's the same reason a lot of people wanted Darth Maul to somehow come back to life in AOTC.

 

obviously you can't read because we're not saying it'd just be 'cool'. we're saying it would add alot to the saga.