Lit Should Disney continue Legends?

Either scenario would make sense. It wouldn't have surprised me if any of the 4 initial NewEU books in 2014 were originally planned as part of the old EU, so I can understand why people would think it was the case. Heir to the Jedi was almost certainly originally an old EU book that was just thrust into new canon as a result of it's release date, and I still entertain the possibility that Lords of the Sith was an adaptation of what Paul S Kemp's "mystery mind-blowing duology" would have been.

 

I really don't want a crossover and am miffed enough as it is, they ripped off the magician's nephew for that rebel's episode.

I would rather see legends never come back in any form than some crisis of infinite Coruscant's sort of comic story.

As it is the world between the world's concept did lay the groundwork for crossovers, even if they haven't jumped into doing "Canon Vader meets legends Vader" and "Kylo meets Jacen" yet and seem to restraining from that sort of thing for the time being anyway.

The most I would be comfortable with is visions/dreams/and mystic style infodumps that confirm legends as an alternate universe within the multiverse.

Maybe have canon Luke have a dream of his legends self with a wife and son he never had, maybe have Kylo glimpse Caedus on the anakin solo, or Rey glimpse Allana or Jaina fighting dark siders.

Something that is explicitly legends-but no contact between the characters just visions and dreams and so on which confirm legends as an alternate reality.

 

After The sequel trilogy, I totally think a crisis of infinite Coruscants would be appropriate but it should have an impact on the canon.

Bring forth a few characters into the new universe. Replace others with old ones or old ones with new ones.

Create other universes as well. An Emperor Vader pulled from some universe would be cool.

The recent Vader comics are doing a pretty good job at showing us what a superhero Star Wars universe would be like mixed with sci fi and fantasy.

TLJ did destroy the old ways. A crossover event could actually reunite a fractured fandom.

 

Star Wars is inherently diverse. It's literally an entire galaxy filled with vibrant alien species, worlds, and cultures. As has been pointed out, the whole struggle of the New Republic was avoiding causing any species to feel excluded or blamed for anything.

What I and others are opposed to is forced diversity and SJW pandering, such that the First Order is considered "white supremacist" by a certain screenwriter, a concept that as far as I'm aware had no place in Star Wars (the Empire was human chauvinist, but at no time did I ever see racial chauvinism). I believe that SJW pandering has been an inherent and core concern of the new canon books and films, and, while not entirely responsible for their lackluster performance in the eyes of myself and many, they have definitely contributed to it.

Again, I would not trust Disney to continue the Legends storyline as I believe they have demonstrated their obsessive tendency to pander to SJW-ism in the worst possible way, using real world allegory, something Tolkien disparaged totally (and he is right). I'm interested in Star Wars as a far away universe that operates on its own terms. Reading a Star Wars book whose whole premise is a thinly veiled attack on Donald Trump for instance would make me want to burn the book on the spot and throw out the whole Legends continuity there and then.

When the Legends timeline was established, we saw "veteran" science fiction authors whose interest in writing Star Wars books was sheer passion for the franchise. You can tell that Stackpole, Zahn, and Luceno in particular love Star Wars and know all of its lore to an encyclopedic extent.

I believe that this holds true for all of the Legends material.

I think the Bantam era showcases a publisher with an intense passion for Star Wars willing to take chances, for better or worse (often worse). At this point I'd like to see more chances taken such that we see with the Old Republic stuff. The Old Republic opened a completely new storytelling venue for Star Wars that has been capitalized upon excellently. The Legacy comics are another such chance (haven't read them yet, but love the concept). This is a huge galaxy with millions of stories to be told. I'd like to see more cool concepts from authors with ideas that populate Star Wars lore with the unexpected, the out-there, but the cool. For me at least, Vong invasion is this.

 

You can say all that without blaming "forced diversity and SJW pandering". I think there were huge issues with TLJ specifically but I think it's a stretch to say that it was because of "forced diversity and SJW pandering". I think you're probably looking for problems and jumping at things that aren't there. I have a hard time believing that there is a SW book whose premise is an attack on Donald Trump.

Ftr the minute you bring in "forced diversity and SJW pandering" into your complaints, no one is going to take you seriously.

 

The Empire was based on the Nazis who were ever so slightly white supremacist. The First Order is based on Neo-Nazis, so same deal. And racial chauvinism is inherent in the lack of aliens in the Empire, and was picked up by plenty of Legends material.

Also, a film that contains a majority white cast, rather than an ethnically diverse one, is also "forcing" a particular agenda or perspective. You might not notice because you likely consider the white majority to be normal, but it's still a political stance.

Would that apply to any real-world figure, or just Trump?

 

The only book released post-reboot that was "supposed to be a Legends book" was Heir to the Jedi (which was originally conceived back with Honor Among Thieves and Razor's Edge), as is well known.

All the other books were completely new, original ideas. While some might certainly feel like they could have fit in Legends, or read like a Legends book - NONE of them were planned as such. Lords of the Sith bears no relation to the "duology." This is not my opinion or feeling, this is fact.

 

I just don't see why voicing an opinion that many banned Star Wars fans have is like saying the n-word. I do blame forced diversity and SJW pandering somewhat as those distasteful elements are present and they do have some effect. Though I don't entirely blame those things. But I would be lying to myself if I neglected them. I'm not looking for any problems. I'm reacting to what I have unfortunately seen and experienced.

There is no book yet whose premise is an attack on Donald Trump. If there was (and given the state of the world I would not be surprised), I'd throw that book as well as the whole Legends continuity into the trash.

I view the Empire as portraying a Stalinist society much more accurately. I can view the Empire as being modern America if I want to, and the Rebels being mujahideen fighters willing to use terror tactics if that's what it takes.

"Evil Empire" is a trope. I've never viewed it as an allegory for the Third Reich and can't. I prefer not to view it allegorically at all.

The more allegorical something appears, the cheaper its function as a mythological universe of its own.

I disagree with your contention that a using white majority cast in a white majority country is forcing anything. For the overwhelming majority of the history of film, those responsible for casting have not had to pay attention to this matter. They cast actors and actresses that could portray the character. In a white country, the characters will most likely be white.

I don't even care about casting however. My concern is that the characters themselves are lame, and they've killed old heroes in order to showcase these shallow characters that really don't really interest me. You can create great female, black, alien characters etc that are compelling. And you can pander to SJWs as a means of virtue signaling without creating compelling characters because you have a profit motive, as has happened. In that case things are going to suffer, as has happened. They placed profit motive and SJW pandering above story and mythology. And for me and others that is unforgivable.

Of course: real world allegory detracts from immersion and cheapens the story. Anything that brings me back to Earth and takes me away from the Star Wars mythology will force me to react negatively towards it.

 

Infinite Coruscants! Infinite Coruscants! Reunite us! Reunite us!

 

Star Wars is built on allegory. Lucas has even stated his focus is on that real-world allegory rather than the in-universe mythology that's been built up, hence him not caring overmuch about the inconsistencies between the PT and OT.

Which country are you considering to be a "white" country? Because it's not mine and I don't believe it's yours either. You're looking at a lack of diversity in film and assuming it reflects the world; it doesn't. Also, yes casting agents have had to pay attention to diversity throughout the history of media; racism didn't suddenly get invented when people started throwing the "SJW" term around.

So the entire narrative structure of ANH? The Battle of Endor being a Vietnam allegory? Anakin quoting Bush?

 

Can confirm, I don't take any of his arguments seriously.

 

Are you aware of what the duology was? Afaik it's never been made public knowledge, which has been strange given what a big deal was being made of it by the author on social media at the time

 

Reminds me of my home life.



But in all seriousness....

Just one comment:

There is a problem with allusions to the real world can go too far. GL was actually pretty subtle for the most part in his allusions. However, you can take allusions to an extent that it makes a story dated. GL's allusions weren't idea for idea allegories but rather were spice in his stories.

Anakin's line in RotS actually almost crosses that line. In fact, it doesn't even really make sense considering that Obi Wan a few sccenes later makes an absolute statement saying that the Chancellor is evil (unless GL was actually trying to make a commentary about Obi Wan's hypocrisy or the universal difficulty of pinning down what is right and wrong) and did generate a little buzz at the time cause of its perceived forced nature.

Other places that crossed that line was the EU in general at that time making up stuff like "Homeworld Security". A modern youth audience doesn't catch it and those of us that lived through the time can only chuckle at the fear mongering going on. Bush didn't become Emperor. The world didn't end. Or maybe it did and we're all in Hell.

(actually GL was right the first time as per his ideas used in the New Hope novelization by Foster.....Nixon did start a lineage of multiple powerful mini Emperors but ,alas,that's a libertarian diatribe of mine for another time and place)

My concern is that you write so specifically for the time it's going to lose all power.
In the OT real world events were inspiration for universal themes. Is Endor Vietnam or do most see it as David and Goliath? Is the PT the rise of Bush or is it a sad lament about the complacency of advanced civilizations and the rot that it soon embraces? Is ANH about the MAD doctrine or a warning that fear of death can never keep a populace cowed for long?

Though inspired by real life events they nevertheless illustrated universal "truths" without being blatantly obvious about what they were commenting on (If you're not with me you're my enemy not withstanding)

A bunch of equivalents to Homeworld Security is not what I want to see.

....Or do I?

 

Thankfully this fails. At least for me. If I saw Star Wars as a real world allegory I would have zero interest. I care about Star Wars BECAUSE I can escape from the wretched world into a place full of heroes I can look up to. The Star Wars of Legends is much more complex than "lol Nazi Germany."

America was a white country from its founding until roughly the immigration reforms of the 60s. As such, the culture was a white culture featuring white characters without a second thought towards it, of course. They haven't had to pay attention to diversity until, again, the changes to society brought about by the 60s.

You could argue that they might have thought about this when casting actors wearing blackface. However, there were genuine black actors and actresses that were big back then as well. Never paid much thought to it until now. Most of the old movies I've seen cast blacks as blacks and the main characters were white as society was white (white majority). Why are we even talking about this?

Yes. Even entertaining those allegories for a minute ruins things for me and I'm going to pretend I didn't read them.

Same with Star Trek, Conan, Warcraft, etc. I am interested in these things for the sake of their own internal mythologies. Allegories cheapen them and turn me off. I'm 100% with Tolkien. I am sure these allegories are present, though I enjoy when they function seamlessly alongside the mythology, as I am arguing Star Wars (Legends) has done, such that I am not bothered by any allegories and can actively be blind to them.

 

Because you seem ignorant about your own country? It's pretty telling that you're equating white people to the "main characters" in terms of America itself. And, uh, what was America before the founding of the US, remind me?

 

@Jedi Merkurian , I'm sure, would love to chime in on this particular point.

 

We were. America was (and for the time being still is) a white majority country. Since the 60s that's been changing. Soon it will be a mostly non-white country and media will and is reflecting that.

That New York Cortez woman sure understands this.

Before the Founders America was a British country, if you could call it that.

The ignorance of a foreigner aside, none of this has to do with anything. The issue is forced diversity, not diversity itself. Thrawn, Mara Jade -- great characters invented by an author who put mythology first. New Canon characters are SJW pandering and poorly written.

And that's partly why Disney Star Wars is bad.

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But why are you blaming the diversity? Why can't they just be poorly written characters because they weren't written well, regardless of gender/age/race/species?

If Holdo and Rose were universally accepted to be good, interesting characters would you still be complaining about diversity?

 

No, I wouldn't call it that. You can see what I'm getting at, surely? You forgetting about the First Nation?

So Disney's bad because it doesn't invent characters you like. Gotcha.

 

It's not the diversity itself, but Disney's priorities, which put SJW pandering and profit motive first, rather than building a great Star Wars story.

Give me a badass Mace Windu movie like Shatterpoint. Oh I would love that, been perhaps my favorite SW book since I was a teenager. I guess that would be diverse.

Disney wanting to pander to a contemporary SJW environment lead to neglect of good writing on behalf of politics. Forced diversity is therefore the problem, as I've said.

Not diversity, which is a copout.

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Before the British there were France and Spain.

Get out. /heels There was no America prior to European settlement. Just as there was no Australia prior to European settlement. Historical revisionism won't change that fact either.

Correct, Disney did not invent likeable characters. They killed likeable characters and gave us shallow characters I don't care about. Phasma was pretty cool in her book though -- then they killed her, seemingly like that book was irrelevant.

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Europeans came to the Americas and encountered vile cannibalistic practices and a backwater. In a quick century or two they transformed a backwards hemisphere into something able to hold its own against the old world powers. They created the American states. Prior to them there was nothing of note.

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Yes.