PT Should Lucas Have Done More to Ensure TPM Didn't Disappoint Some Fans?

Disclaimer - I love the PT and I love TPM and the part it plays in the overall story ark, but even the most hardcore of us fans have to admit that it has a number of unforgivable faults, which don't impede my personal enjoyment of the film, and I'm sure don't affect your enjoyment of the film overall either, if you're a fan of the PT. This isn't an anti-PT, anti-Jar Jar or anti-TPM post, just an objective look at a certain period of time in which there was, objectively, real disappointment among SW fans after the initial release of TPM.


So, the OT spawned a universe of ideas, books, games, speculation and dreams, a trilogy of movies that was so perfectly executed in the way that presented itself as a middle slice of a massive movie pie, with a back story and a future, thousands of generations referred to that we could only imagine, characters with interesting backstories, wars that we wanted to learn more about, extinct orders, a fading republic eroded and wiped out by an empire, there was so much we didn't know, but wanted to, and a universe ripe for expanding upon and cashing in on and milking for all it was worth...
Only, this milking never happened. We saw the trilogy, and everything just ended. After almost two decades we got touched up versions of the originals, but nothing more to the stories, nothing new officially, in terms of new films. It didn't make sense, why didn't we see Luke passing the torch on, rebuilding the Jedi order, why didn't we go back and see what happened with Darth Vader, why didn't we see more of Han and the Kessel Run, why didn't we see how the many Bothans died?

Then, one day while I was 11 years old, I heard the news. THE news. The news that I had always wanted but never expected to hear. Star Wars Episode 1 was coming soon. A NEW Star Wars film? One being made during my life time?? Amazing!

I saw it when I was 11 or 12 years old, and even I couldn't help but feel disappointed, and the JarJar stuff didn't bother me that much as he was a character for kids and I was still a kid, but the podcast race did nothing for me, the politics talk bored me and the lack of Darth Maul was the only bad thing about the awesome Darth Maul!
As an adult, the Jar Jar stuff (not necessarily his existence and poor comic relief, that's fine in the grand scheme, but his buffoonery being a slapstick cause for winning the war, destroying tanks and troops by being an awkward idiot, that is beyond awful), though I appreciate the political stuff - mirroring some kind of vaticanal-illuminatish-antichrist-youtubeconspiracytheory plot that is ingenious and plays everyone at their own game and corrupts them all in the process, so the number of things that would have disappointed me then disappoint me now, or would if TPM were to be released to the present me rather than the 11 year old me.

It looks like in some way, there was an attitude of "this is going to disappoint no matter what, so I'm not going to try and avoid disappointing anyone, and just put what I want in it regardless of who it annoys" because there was no real attempt to filter out what would ruin the impact of the new SW movie. I say ruin the impact, not ruin the movie, because the movie IS in my opinion a GREAT movie with bad things in it, it's not a bad movie at all. As such, it is extremely easy to see why it was such a disappointment, even if this meant that it earned a reputation for being a bad movie for a long time (at least among my circles), so, the question is, what do you think GL could have done, in retrospect, to prevent this disappointment, if anything?

The question is distinctly what he should have done to prevent disappointment, rather than what he should have done to make what you think would have been a better movie, although your answer might be the same for either, depending on your opinion.

Note - Original Title was "Should George Lucas have done more to have ensure TPM wasnt a disappointment"

Edited for grammatical clarity and questionable generalization.

 

Well, while I appreciate your overall thoughts and that you are entitled to your opinion, your idea of objectivity flies out the window the moment you want to open with how great the OT was. It screams of using the OT as a comparison, instead of actually looking at TPM on it's own.

Telling people that fans have to admit to something, in this case the "unforgivable faults" of TPM also suggests that you aren't truly looking for an objective discussion, because any of the faults of the movie are going to be subjective to individual people. The degree to which those subjective faults would bug people is also a subjective issue to each individual. You might see something as unforgivable, I might see it as a minor annoyance.

The movie didn't work for you, well that's your opinion. It has unforgivable faults? That's your opinion. You were disappointed? That's your opinion.

I loved TPM... I don't feel the need to point out it's "faults" everytime someone wants to discuss it as some sort of pre-qualifier to appease those that didn't like it in order to make my opinion more valid.

 

Just like there was real joy. And since George never made movies to pander somebody but to tell a story, no. He shouldn't have done more nor less than what he wanted to.

 

How do you prevent that? Kinda vague of a statement...

 

I'm like you and love the prequels, I love the way they were made and I applaud George Lucas for going against the grain & doing the films how he wanted them to be done. It's his story to tell & I'm glad he made them how he envisioned them.

IF he was going to try and prevent it from being a disappointment, he could've made the technology look & feel more like the original trilogy. Not ever bring in the midi-chlorians revelation. Not try so hard with Jar Jar's humor. Made the dialogue more like the original trilogy & more practical effects of course. Along with MAYBE toning down the flashiness of the lightsaber duels, making them seem more weighted as the original trilogy did. But then again, I feel like most people are fine with how they duel with the sabers in the prequels, their problem is that they can't get invested in the duel because they aren't interested in the characters. Also, he could've started out with Anakin being a spice freighter pilot and/or having his age correlate with Luke's in ANH. So, if he wanted to filter(good thing he didn't, the story was told how he imagined it!) than all of that would've helped ensure that fans would love the movie.

(About Jar Jar, yes his slapstick humor can be overwhelming but ALL THE NEGATIVITY about him plastered all over the internet is undeserved. Of course, he's just an easy target for prequel-haters, so it's to be expected but he is actually a crucial main character in The Phantom Menace. If it wasn't for him, Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan would've never made it to Theed to rescue Queen Amidala. If it wasn't for Jar Jar, Queen Amidala would've never realized that the Gungans & the Naboo can live and work together in peace. Also, if it wasn't for Jar Jar- they would've never found the Gungans! Which would've prevented them from creating the diversion needed to take back Naboo! Bottom line is that Naboo was liberated from the Trade Federation's oppression due to Jar Jar uniting the Naboo & the Gungans. Here, here! To Jar Jar! *raises glass up for a toast* ...oh, no one else respects him like I do? Eh, okay. )

 

Well said. I'm also sick of the passive-aggressive attempts to stir up trouble with such statements as, "I love the PT and TPM, but even the most hard-core fans have to admit it has serious, unforgivable flaws."

PT fans have never denied that TPM, and the rest of the prequels, have flaws. (So do the OT movies, and TFA, but that's a whole other ball of wax.) In fact, we've patiently listed said flaws when (impolitely) prompted, only to be accused two minutes later of thinking the PT is perfect.

However, I, and other PT fans, do not "have to admit" that TPM has serious, unforgivable flaws. It has flaws, per above. But I personally, and I'm guessing most PT fans as well, find said flaws neither serious nor unforgivable.

It has become pseudo-fact that "everyone hates TPM," because it's been repeated so often, on the Internet and in the media. But that is not the case. Now I'm going to give the OP some advice: if you find your life so lacking in drama, kindly go elsewhere to create it.

 

It is so hard to begin a discussion about certain things here if its about something that haters have trolled about repeatedly, but is an interesting topic for FANS to talk about, and I knew that NO MATTER HOW I worded the disclaimer in an attempt to display my intention, it would get picked apart, the semantics game would be played and people would pick over the post rather than actually get involved in the discussion, but now that you've gotten that off of your chests, I hope that the thread will actually discuss the topic itself as one or two people have actually done, and their posts were extremely interesting reads, unlike the posts moaning about the fact that I mentioned that I love TPM or that I worded certain things about the clear faults (which are faults, in the sense that they are almost unanimously reviled among fans and haters alike, YES some people like them, there are always people who like some thing and people who dislike them, well done, you've just figured that out)... Okay, rant over lol

Yes ObiWanKnowsMe (great name BTW!) Jar Jar was a vital character! My issue was HOW he was used more than how he spoke or the comic relief role he played... I would personally have been more satisfied with a serious end battle rather than seeing him become the bumbling hero of the hour there, but yes, plot-wise, important and definitely not as bad as people make out, SW is all about strange alien life forms, there are so many to learn about throughout the series and it is great that in one film, one of them actually became a secondary main character rather than supporting character or extra. IMO that's a strength of TPM regardless of the popularity of JarJar.

 

I have no problem with your thread and in context

But starting it off like this? Thats something everyone says to the PT...ALOT.

I would just refrain from saying things like "Oh man I know this is really bad is objectively so and so, lets all discuss!"

 

It has nothing to do with semantics. Your title alone doesn't suggest objective open discussion, it suggests that TPM being a disappointment is an indisputable fact.

This line here:

Again, that doesn't encourage discussion for everyone, only those that agree with your view. Because if a hardcore fan doesn't agree that TPM has unforgivable faults, than they are wrong.

This is wording that you chose to pursue in your post, not any one else. Telling people that they have to accept something as true because you, or even a majority feel that way is the fastest way to shut down an open and honest discussion.

 

Well, part of the problem for me is that after all these years to have learned that TPM was a disappointment to a portion of the fanbase, is something I will never understand given that I was blown away by what we saw originally in the theatre in 1999.

I think that the disappointment was more centered around the unrealistic expectations of the time, and given that it didn't meet said expectations it was met that way.

Honestly, I can't help but think that if this movie had been the first of the series, as Roger Ebert noted in his review, it would have been "hailed as a visionary breakthrough".

 

Darth DoJ , I agree. What he does in the battle is inconceivable. The slapstick'ing that he does should've stopped during that battle. It takes away the drama and the tension of the battle. I think the message behind the Gungans & Jar Jar is very positive but people hate them because of Jar Jar's antics.... And I agree with you, Jar Jar's role and the message behind it is a great strength in TPM, usually not noticed (And thanks, huge fan of Obi-Wan in the prequels so I had to include him in my user!)

 

Why should he have done anything to prevent disappointment in the first place?

 

Hmmmmm

Nah

 

I'm going to claim that had Lucas "done more to ensure that TPM did not disappoint a portion of Star Wars fans", TPM may have received a better response within that portion of the crowd, but doing so may have negatively impacted the overall saga that Lucas wanted to tell, which for Lucas has always been more important than the individual film since ESB.

The elements illustrated in TPM, such as the politics, Darth Maul surprisingly being a fairly disposable apprentice to Darth Sidious, and the irony of Jar Jar's acts that you mention, are all key elements of the PT. Take another common complaint - that TPM is set "too early" and that elements illustrated in TPM which factor towards Anakin's turn to the dark side (e.g. his background as a slave child who joins the Jedi at the age of nine, Obi-Wan abruptly stepping up to take his place as Anakin's Master, Palpatine's extended plotting) should instead have been communicated as flashbacks or story background. How effective in comparison would the latter method be?

I think it's fair to say that the audience that went in to watch TPM in 1999 expected a film with action and Anakin Skywalker already as a Jedi, because that was pretty much what they had seen in the OT so far. TPM turned out to be different - there was action, but not in the same way - but different does not necessarily equate bad (in fact I love it when I can say that a film was not what I had expected; rather, it was better). For me the most salient point when I watched TPM as a twelve-year-old was that there was something obviously awkward about Obi-Wan's, Anakin's and Padmé's ages at that time and the time period (more than ten years before Anakin would turn to the dark side) that it had to be intentional - it would have been all too easy to put them at "more natural" ages, but it wouldn't have conveyed the same point - but this somehow flew over the heads of a part of the audience who saw it merely as a flaw. The different structure of TPM contributes to why those who may have wanted a fast-paced action film were disappointed, but even as a twelve-year-old I felt that it was an acceptable trade-off in the long run if it was for the sake of telling a bigger story. So I guess it boils down to: what is most important to one in the long run?

 

There is no objectivity in any art I don't understood why some continue to think that there is. Anywho, TPM doesn't have any unforgivable faults that I nor anyone else need to admit. There is no such thing as an all around perfect film so debating about that is useless. I personally find TPM to be an amazing film that only gets better on rewtches. It used to not be the PT film that I would re-watch often but I have developed some new fondness over it the past few years. I have always loved the film though it was my first SW film and I can remember like yesterday being blown away by it my first time seeing it in theaters.

 

he did all he needed to do. it's up to the audience to look deeper. just watched tpm again a few days ago. the only disappointment i have is that my dvd looks old and washed out compared to hd and i don't have the saga in hd yet.

 

To be fair, TPM is a movie that takes some big risks, and was a major departure from anything that had been seen in SW before. I can understand the argument that Lucas should've played it a little safer with the first one of the trilogy, like TFA, and then branch out and try new things later. Of course, some people call TFA a disappointment for being too safe, so either way you can't please everyone. Lucas decided to make his own story how he wanted it, and let the chips fall where they may.

 

I own saga on DVD except for TFA. My DVDs look pretty good on my HDTV though I'm sure that can differ on other tvs. I do look fwd to owning the BD set soon.

 

As a fan I will admit that TPM is a brilliant film with perfectly forgivable faults no worse than the perfectly forgivable faults of Clones, Sith, Hope, Empire and Jedi.

As for the question in the title, no.

 

I know a movie that was made by a director who was afraid of the movie being a disappointed so he stayed more loyal to the original. It's called The Force Awakens. The results are argueable.

 

I'm not a big fan of the prequels in general, but TPM was NOT a disappointment when I saw it in theaters in 99. Quite the opposite. I was not even aware of any major backlash towards it until years later. It remains my favorite film of the PT.

 

No such faults exist. I am as hardcore as it gets FYI

 

Whilst he's too canny and wily to ever outright state it I am pretty sure Lucas realised early on that when making a prequel to Star Wars, there were going to be people who were disappointed. Some people with the result, some with the fact it was ever made in the first place, some that it had taken this long to actually make them... some genuinely, some because they are just being contrary. And from that, he reached the only possible conclusion: eff those people. Make the movie how he wants to make it, tell the story he wants to tell, if he wants to go ahead and test out the new fields of CGI he never had to play with in the 70s, then he can. And he did. And for me, that was precisely the right thing to do.

He could have made an entirely different movie that perhaps some of the people 'disappointed' with TPM would have loved. But quite possibly that hypothetical movie would have disappointed those of us who saw and loved the version we got.... flaws and all.

 

I'm actually ridiculously proud of the fact that the PT spearheaded the development and utilisation of CGI at the time, whether or not fans think that the effects continue to hold up well today. This is one of the great contributions of Star Wars towards film development. There's this post in another thread that aptly summarises my admiration for what the PT achieved technology-wise:

 

Stop making sweeping generalizations first off it is all your OPINION so we are not forced to have your OPINION that it has unforgivable faults which is NONSENSE, so stop with the passive aggressive crap you have to admit. Lastly I don't care how much this bothers certain people, their is no viewing or assessing a movie objectively because movies are only subjective, I know simple minded people like to look at things black and white and want a clear answer on what to enjoy or not to enjoy but sorry it's all subjective their is no right or wrong answer I know this bothers many people because they like to be told how to think...To me the prequels have no faults, TO YOU they do. END OF DISCUSSION STOP LOOKING FOR A CONSENSUS AND JUST ACCEPT PEOPLE HAVE A DIFFERENT OPNION THAN YOU!