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Discussion Should the ST be Expanded to a Quadrilogy?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by Boba Frett, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. Boba Frett

    Boba Frett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 1999
    Okay, it's obvious that The Last Jedi was a highly divisive film. Love it or hate it, there doesn't seem to be much of a middle ground.

    It also takes place right after The Force Awakens, but even so, while JJ Abrams set up quite a bit in TFA, not much of that was explicitly addressed in TLJ, which was rather occupied with its own narrative, to the exclusion of story and character elements.

    It seems like Episode IX really needs some space to breathe and have time for character development and story elements to unfold, with additional planning to have things wrapped up in a "final" film for the story arc.

    I'm just not seeing how the politics, places, characters and plotting can satisfactorily be wrapped up in a single film. I'd like to have The Knights of Ren explored and some real character development to happen for the main cast. THEN you can have your finale for the sequel arc. So much of this comes down to the lack of space (no pun intended) between VII and VIII.

    Would we be better off at this point with a Quadrilogy? Just add on another one? They didn't anticipate Carrie Fisher's unfortunate passing, and that could have an impact.
     
  2. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I never got it why it always had to be a trilogy. IMO AoTC was so poor because everyone (at least me) expected a clone war which was completely missing in the end, jumping from the initial battle at the end of AoTC to ROTS politics resulting in O66. (followed by a kids cartoon series)
    If GL would have splitted Ep2 into Ep2 chapter 1 & 2 he would have had the time to do a descent story with a better result of the film and plot.
    Why not do a saga without having a trilogy? TLJ with the death of Luke, Leia and Han would have felt "rushed" but it would have closed a chapter. A lot of people were expecting the original three as a big part in the trilogy and are now upset. If they would have said that there will be new saga episodes when the time is right IMO all would have worked better.
     
  3. Adept

    Adept Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2006
    If you're asking me whether or not I want another movie focusing on these characters the answers is 'Yes' if the right director and writer is available. However, I do feel you can wrap this series up in a final movie. RJ left ambiguities where JJ left mystery boxes, and that gives us more than enough wiggle room to bring things to a conclusion.

    Kylo Ren is in charge of the FO, and going by how his anger completely sabotaged his mission in the final act of TLJ, it's not hard to see him all but running the FO into the ground by the time the third film picks up. Heck, between Kylo Ren and Hux we could open on an FO civil war, the organization fracturing as the growing rebellion attackes with near impunity because everyone in the FO is too busy watching their own people for betrayal, to see the growing threat of the rebellion. Heck the Rebellions plan could boil down to...encourage this internal fighting/fracturing, let them wipe one another out, contain the collateral to the FO...then sweep in and mop up the survivors.

    In TLJ we saw how Luke's final act inspired the minds of people across the galaxy. That could easily lead to people joining the Rebellion, allowing Poe to grow into a leadership role as he finds himself spending less time in a cockpit and more time leading the growing Rebel forces. Finn could find himself running mission across the galaxy, gathering intel, sabotaging FO facilities and even convincing FO personnel to defect, since the FO is tearing itself apart from the inside. Rey could be hunting down lore on the force, deepening her understanding of it while trying to decide what to do about ALL of Luke's wayward students.

    All the film would have to do is show the closing days of this war, and leave enough information for us to work out how we got to this point. That allows the film to focus on the characters and actions as this trilogy closes out.
     
  4. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    I actually do think they need a 4th. But I think that they should be filmed together with X being released 6 months later (like Potter).

    The story was basically refreshed and a whole new direction was established. The Republic AND Resistance are gone. Kylo has to move into his new role. Rey has to find purpose and learn more about herself. Too much for one film.
     
  5. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Original trilogy = hero's journey
    Prequel trilogy= hero's tragedy
    Sequel trilogy = heroine's journey

    Final trilogy = ???????????
     
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  6. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018

    I think showing Kylo Ren as an incompetent leader who can't gain control of the FO would just further ruin this trilogy for me. In star wars 1-6 we had the overarching "bad guy" be competent, ruthless and unforgiving. Sure some of the minor ones weren't always 100% competent but the main one always was competent and dangerous and posed a credible threat.

    How can we feel any sort of concern for Rey facing kylo if he cant even bend his subordinates to his will? It would cheapen the conflict. Also what need would the force have needed for Rey to gain her powers if infighting would just destroy the FO from within?
     
  7. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    My initial reaction to this thread's question was an almost automatic "no, this is a trilogy and it should remain one." But in thinking about it more, there are interesting reasons given here about why it could work better with a fourth movie. I think it could be done in three as planned, but that could be tight and lead to important points being glossed over. Four movies could give the story the room it needs to play out more fully, but still without feeling stretched out. And to be clear, I don't think this is the case because of any missed opportunities or flaws in TLJ; I really liked TLJ, but I just think this is an interesting idea that could make for a stronger overall story.

    In fact, I would much rather have this trilogy become a quadrilogy, and the Saga as a whole have ten episodes total, than to have a sequel sequel trilogy with episodes 10 through 12... I think this idea would be much better.
     
  8. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Yeah. I think they can round it out as a trilogy. But if they did extend to episode 10, I would be totally down with that.
     
    Generational Fan and EHT like this.
  9. Luke'sSeveredHand

    Luke'sSeveredHand Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2014
    I'm with you point for point. My initial thought was "no way" because we've always operated under the trilogy framework. Love it or hate it, the TLJ's biggest accomplishment was to show no format, editing process, narrative framework, nor expected character trajectory is sacred. Four could work. In fact, four might be the best way to go about wrapping this portion of the saga up with a pretty bow.
     
  10. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    I don't know they gloss over a lot in the movies they have. It's a matter of not using the available time in a film well as opposed to needing to make an additional film to make up for that.
     
  11. miasma

    miasma Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Regarding the politics, places and characters...

    Politics: I don't think there's a whole lot to wrap up since the ST has intentionally avoided going in-dept with the politics. Essentially, FO = bad guys who must be beaten. There could be a sequel-sequel trilogy that goes into rebuilding the republic, but trying to squeeze that into this trilogy, even with an extra film, would feel out of place. It would be nice to learn more about how the FO came into power, but if the writers want to explore that, it could be told in a few lines of exposition, and then developed further in books, etc.

    Places: I'm not sure what you mean. Which places need to be wrapped up? (and how can a place be wrapped up?)

    Characters: All of the main characters are already being given a good amount of character development, so I don't think they need an extra film for this. I'm sure we'll get some more insight and development in Ep9, but anything beyond that probably isn't necessary for the story, and can be left for books, comics, etc, for the fans who really want to go in-depth. All of the major characters in the ST feel about as well-developed now as they were in the second episodes of the previous two trilogies, so I don't feel this one is lacking in that regard.

    So I'm fine with keeping this a trilogy. I think adding an extra film would result in a lot of padding throughout episodes 9 and 10, and I'd rather have a tight, neatly told story.
     
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  12. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018
    You and I have different ideas on what "character development" is. Every character seems almost as if they're just acting as the exact opposite of how they were acting in the first movie. That's not character development.

    Finn, just days prior left his ENTIRE life behind...and that's not even touched on in TLJ? How can you show his development without showing him having to come to terms with killing his own and having to get used to life without having a cause/people to serve? And he's one of the main cast for TFA and TLJ.

    Rey experiences 0 character development in this movie...and no just because she had a scene where she gets a little teary eyed doesn't mean her character has developed or changed in any significant way. Watch TFA and then watch TLJ right after and you'll be completely taken out of TLJ when you realize how little the characters actually develop and how from one movie to the next their personalities and values just change over night basically.

    the fact that poe has gone from most trusted pilot who's entrusted with top secret intelligence and missions in one movie to a guy that Holdo doesn't even deem worthy of a response on whether she has a plan or not?! what?!
     
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  13. Rodie

    Rodie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2014
    They'll end it with Episode 9, but that film will probably be just as long as The Last Jedi is.
     
  14. GregMcP

    GregMcP Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2015
    Luke is dead. Love it or not.
    One last movie dealing with his legacy is about right.
    Something with a little bit of Force Ghost Mark Hamill.

    From there... that's a new story. You can put Adam Driver or Daisy into something fresh that is just about them and not old favorites dying.

    So, no.
     
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  15. GauntGrandMoff

    GauntGrandMoff Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Two movies in and It's feels like nothings happend. Normally I'd want to cap the films at 3 but at this point I wouldn't be mad to see more...


    I really don't mind another lengthy film so long as we don't waste it with saving space horses and space chases.

    No Rathers, no Fathiers just a focused story. Basically what ROTS was to TPM.

    Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
     
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  16. All_Powerful_Jedi

    All_Powerful_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Give it 10-or-so years, then we'll talk about whether there's a Sequel Sequel Trilogy. I'm sure there will be after RJ's palate cleanser trilogy.

    We all thought ROTJ was the last one, then we thought ROTS was the last one. Here we are...
     
  17. Storm_Cloud

    Storm_Cloud Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2016
    Unless there is a big time jump and suddenly the Resistance gets tons of help then there's no way to smash the First Order in a short time. Revolution is a possibility, but to go get to overthrowing a regime that during TLJ still hadn't taken over the galaxy would seem like a lot to get through in one film. A revolt among the stormtroopers led by Finn would be potentially a quicker path.
     
  18. GregMcP

    GregMcP Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2015
    That's okay.
    You don't have to defeat The First Order, in fact, they've built up this nice ecosystem of imagery so don't throw it away. The First Order only exists because they inconveniently wiped out the Empire in Return of the Jedi.

    Keep the First Order around for another day. Defeat Hux, do whatever you have to do with Kylo and Rey, but don't chuck everything away.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  19. Jedi Master Chuck

    Jedi Master Chuck Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2013
    I think of it more like this

    Prequel Trilogy - The Fall of the Republic
    Original Trilogy - Reign of the Empire
    Sequel Trilogy - Restoration of the Republic
    Final Trilogy - Preservation of the Peace

    The Jedi were the keepers of peace. They Preserved peace and justice for over a thousand generations before the Empire. So we saw the dark times - the reign of the Sith, in the original trilogy. We were then given the backstory, the fall of the Jedi, the rise of the Empire, and the end of the old Republic.

    In this new trilogy, we are witnessing the chaos, the imbalance left by the destruction of the Empire. I always felt that this saga should be considered the re-emergence of the Jedi and the Republic from the ashes. Of course, the first attempt at both failed. Kylo Ren destroyed Luke's academy and the New Republic Leia helped found was wiped out.

    So what remains? A final crucible - a test for the newly restored Jedi Order and Republic. The Republic and Jedi Order fell in the prequel trilogy. This trilogy is telling the story of the first failed attempt at rebuilding these institutions. In theory, it should end with the beginning of their reconstruction as Revenge of the Sith ended with the formation and early stages of the Empire. The second attempt - the truly reborn Jedi and Republic need to be tested - to be shown capable of withstanding the same tests the old Republic and Jedi Order failed in order for the audience to be left feeling whatever is built at the end of Episode IX won't fall apart again as things all went to hell again after Return of the Jedi.

    In that sense, I think the theme of 'balance' would be appropriate. I have some ideas for a story that I think would put a nice capstone on the Skywalker saga and involve elements from all 3 trilogies while also infusing some new ideas into the series. However I think that would be a bit much for this post.

    Ultimately, what I would say I believe a fourth trilogy in this saga is essential to telling a complete story. Whatever is rebuilt must be tested. We have seen the Jedi as an order approaching their imminent destruction and a near extinct band of warriors. We have never in Star Wars seen the Jedi as successful keepers of the peace as they are intended to be - and that's what a fourth trilogy should show. The New Jedi succeeding in preventing destruction when faced with a similar challenge of the old Jedi - succeeding in the role of peace keepers of the New Republic.
     
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  20. Seagoat

    Seagoat PT and Music Section Dictator star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Nah - but it's worth noting, in my very worthless opinion, that big stories of this magnitude are almost always best told as four-parters

    But imo, it's worked so far, and the ST can still work as a trilogy
     
  21. DarthHass

    DarthHass Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2004
    I agree on needing X XI and XII but that'll be ten years from now or so.

    And I thought the word was tetralogy?
     
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  22. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    When I was 6, I thought Caravan of Courage and Battle for Endor were the continuation of the saga.


    I have no idea why I'm saying this.










    Anyway.....I like when viewed as nine sequential films, ESB is the apex
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  23. Jarren_Lee-Saber

    Jarren_Lee-Saber Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2008
    I'm more in favor of nixing it and going back to the drawing board rather than adding another abomination to the canon.
     
  24. Bullhead CIty

    Bullhead CIty Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 1, 2012
    I'd like to see a 2-part finale, or an announcement were just making "saga" films until further notice.

    At the end of TLJ, with all the main OT characters DONE - it's like the table is now clear to begin a true ST.

    Kylo is too good of a villain to get rid of yet. Just as he's coming into his own. I'm in the non-redemption camp for Kylo - yet I want him to survive.
     
  25. skybender

    skybender Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2017
    After TLJ, I'm not sure one more film can bring the development these characters desperately need, so I am in favor of another film. Do I think it will happen? Nah, but I'm in favor of it.
     
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