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PT Significant mirroring between Episode One and Episode Three (Warning: Image Heavy-Slow Loading)

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by HevyDevy, Sep 9, 2014.

  1. Cael-Fenton

    Cael-Fenton Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Well...just the fact that he's removing a 'limb' in an act of desperation?

    I'd assumed it was obvious, but now that you ask, I wonder if it's more of stretch than I thought...maybe there's really nothing more to it...

    edit: just realised, isn't that kind of exactly what you're saying here?
    Sorry if I was repeating what you already said, must've missed it :p Then again, this is mirroring within RotS, so I guess it's not really relevant to this thread anyway.
     
  2. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Was just wondering if you had a more specific description. It seems kind of intentional, whether it matches visually or not :)
    I love the contrast between the different halves of ROTS. It may seem obvious to some, but it really bridges the prequels and the OT in underrated detail. You can see the split between Anakin and Vader, there is more put into this than some people may admit.
     
  3. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Along similar lines, I like how Obi-Wan and Anakin -- well, Anakin, I truly suppose -- bring down that control tower when they land what is left of the Invisible Hand. A foreshadowing of the edificial destruction we see in Sith's last act.

    The opening segment of ROTS is a great prologue rich in allegorical ornaments. I do think it encapsulates much about the "tragedy" about to unfold; about all of the films, really. There's so much to pick out. And the rhythms of the whole thing work so well. Comedy/lightness, death/destruction, etc. It is very much the series in microcosm.

    Anyway, one neat little character bit, for example, is the way Obi-Wan immediately takes charge when he "wakes" back up. It's quite poignant in the way it suggests Anakin needs Obi-Wan around to keep on a straight path and avoid doom. Though, in some measure, of course, it can also be said that Obi-Wan's inadequacies are passed onto Anakin, dooming him after all.

    So there is that great sense of irony always at work, as well. Things in Star Wars, as in life, are neither entirely "one" thing or the other.
     
  4. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Well said, I agree wholeheartedly.

    Nice observation. I thought it was funny in the ROTS commentary where they commented on all the people that would have died, not sure if they were serious about the tower being occupied or not.

    Yeah. It's very condensed (for better or worse) and almost feels like Star Wars on drugs.

    I love that observation. "Too late! Jump!" (taking charge as you said). Obi-Wan's abscence at crucial moments is a re-ocurring thing I know you are aware of. I can definitely see the duality of his influence on Anakin as you suggested.

    On a loosely related topic, it is also very apparent that Palpatine's personality is different when it is only he and Anakin around. In the script, when the three of them are caught in the ray-shields, Palpatine actually suggests they surrender. And back on Coruscant when greeted by Mace he diverts the attention from himself onto Grievous... "Thanks to your two Jedi Knights.They killed Count Dooku. But General Grievous has escaped once again." I think the contrast in moments like this compared to Anakin's seduction would be quite interesting for a first-time viewer.
     
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  5. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    TPM
    [​IMG]
    ROTS
    [​IMG]
    (R2 also does it in ROTJ)


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A couple between "duel of fates" and "battle of heroes":

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Balancing precariously...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Now Viceroy, we will discuss a new treaty!"
    [​IMG]
    "Lord Sidious promised us peace! We only want to... Aaaah!"
    [​IMG]

    Both Padme and Anakin having jammed doors, both bringing peace (from a certain point of view), yet Vader's actions are evil. The moral grey area explored in the prequels.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    At the risk of sounding sexist... Padme's sorrow for her entire planet's people becomes sorrow solely for her husband when you compare to the two films:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I think deep down she realises how far Anakin would go for her;
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Cael-Fenton

    Cael-Fenton Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Wow, never noticed that those two moments reflect each other so exactly! That's utterly gorgeous. Thanks for pointing it out.

    I think if you look at it on a non-literal level, it's not sexist. Anakin's fall is the microcosm of the fall of the Republic, which itself symbolically begins with the Battle of Naboo. I really feel that all the complaints about Padmé's 'weaknesses' as a character in RotS give too little weight to the fact that she is, like any other of the main dramatis personae, not just a character, a person. She has a particular function in the story -- perhaps more than any other character, she brings out the theme of symbiosis.
     
  7. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Thanks, glad you liked it.

    True. I do think Anakin and Padme's intertwined fates, demonstrated by them simultaneously fading at the end of the trilogy, can be overlooked by the casual viewer.



    Some random stuff...

    TPM
    Palpatine: "There is no civility, only politics."
    ROTS
    Obi-Wan: "Oh, I'm not brave enough for politics!"

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TPM
    Shmi (as Anakin leaves home): "I love you."
    ROTS
    Padme (asking Anakin to run away with her): "Stop now, come back, I love you!"

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TPM
    Qui-Gon: "There's something else behind this, there is no logic in the Federation's move here. My feelings tell me they will destroy you."
    ROTS
    Obi-Wan: 'Yes, but Anakin use your feelings, something is out of place!"

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    TPM
    Shmi: "You have brought hope to those who have none."
    ROTS
    Obi-Wan: "It was said that you would ... Bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness!"
     
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  8. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I've noticed more mirrors between Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan / Obi-Wan and Anakin. Particularly with Qui-Gon/Anakin against the Council, and Obi-Wan arguing with his Master and apprentice, taking the Council's side in both TPM and ROTS. I'm gonna split these up, but they are all the same theme...


    TPM/AOTC
    Note both Qui-Gon and Anakin are assigned to protect Padme in each film.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    (Although not directly linked to these two stills, I thought I would point out that Obi-Wan's mentoring of Anakin in AOTC contrasts Qui-Gon's of Obi-Wan;
    Qui-Gon: "Obi-Wan is ready." Obi-Wan: "I am ready to face the trials!" /
    Obi-Wan: "He is not ready to be given this assignment on his own yet." (and in another scene) Anakin: "I'm ready for the trials!")

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    TPM/ROTS

    After Qui-Gon tells the Council about Anakin, who he wants trained, there is this disagreement between the TPM pair:

    Obi-Wan: "The boy will not pass the Council's tests Master, he is too old."
    Qui-Gon: "Anakin will be a Jedi, I promise you."
    Obi-Wan: "Don't defy the Council, Master, not again!"
    Qui-Gon: "I will do what I must, Obi-Wan."
    Ob-Wan: "If you would just follow the code, you would be on the Council. They will not go along with you this time."
    Qui-Gon: "You still have much to learn, my young apprentice."

    After Anakin is assiged to the Council, but denied Mastership, there is a paralleled disagreement between the ROTS pair


    ANAKIN: What kind of nonsense is this, put me on the Council and not make me a Master!?? That's never been done in the history of the Jedi. It's insulting!
    OBI-WAN: Calm down, Anakin. You have been given a great honor. To be on the Council at your age... It's never happened before. The fact of the matter is you're too close to the Chancellor. The Council doesn't like it when he interferes in Jedi affairs.
    ANAKIN: I swear to you, I didn't ask to be put on the Council...
    ...
    ANAKIN: They want me to spy on the Chancellor? That's treason!
    OBI-WAN: We are at war, Anakin.
    ...
    ANAKIN: You're asking me to do something against the Jedi Code. Against the Republic. Against a mentor... and a friend. That's what's out of place here. Why are you asking this of me?
    OBI-WAN: The Council is asking you.

    Notice Qui-Gon is a Master not on the Council, where Anakin is on the Council but not a Master. Both disagreements are centred around Qui-Gon getting Anakin to be a Padawan and Anakin getting to be a Jedi Master. Obi-Wan also says Anakin is too old, defying Qui-Gon, where in ROTS he says Anakin is too young, defying Anakin. Both Anakin and Qui-Gon promise something to Obi-Wan, yet sort of opposites. Finally Qui-Gon defies the code in an attempt to get Anakin trained as a Jedi, where Anakin's objection at defying the code himself will eventually contribute to his becoming a Sith.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The scene of Anakin's rejections (through Qui-Gon about his training / representing himself and the Chancellor about his Mastership) also parallels:


    Ki-Adi: The Force is strong with him.
    Qui-Gon: He's to be trained, then.
    Mace Windu:No. He will not be trained.
    Qui-Gon: No??!!
    Mace Windu: He is too old.
    Qui-Gon: He is the chosen one... you must see it.
    YODA:Clouded, this boy's future is.
    QUI-GON:I will train him, then. I take Anakin as my Padawan learner.
    Yoda: An apprentice you already have Qui-Gon. Impossible to take on a second
    MACE WINDU: The code forbids it.
    QUI-GON: Obi-Wan is ready...
    OBI-WAN:I am ready to face the trials.
    YODA:Ready so early, are you? What know you of ready?
    QUI-GON:Headstrong... and he has much to learn about the living Force, but he is capable. There is little more he can learn from me.
    YODA:Young Skywalker's fate will be decidedlater.

    (The Jedi then discuss their objectives with the invasion of Naboo)

    YODA: Allow this appointment lightly, the Council does not. Disturbing is this move by Chancellor Palpatine.ANAKIN: I understand.
    MACE: You are on this Council, but we do not grant you the rank of Master.
    ANAKIN: What? ! How can you do this?? This is outrageous, it's unfair... How can you be on the Council and not be a Master?
    MACE: Take a seat, young Skywalker.
    ANAKIN: Forgive me, Master.

    (The Jedi then discuss their objectives with the Outer Rim Sieges)


    Anakin is too old to be a Jedi, yet too young to be a Master
    :p

    Both Qui-Gon and Anakin seem to think his status as chosen one should qualify Anakin.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As I posted previously, the mirrored disagreements are resolved with Obi-Wan apologising Qui-Gon, and Anakin apologising to Obi-Wan:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Anakin and Obi-Wan's ROTS "farewell", the last time they speak as friends, is paralleled by Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon in TPM.
    TPM:

    OBI-WAN : Jar Jar is on his way to the Gungan city, Master. Do you think the Queen's idea will work?
    QUI-GON : The Gungans will not easily be swayed, and we cannot use our power to help her.
    OBI-WAN : I'm...I'm sorry for my behavior, Master. It is not my place to disagree with you about the boy. And I am grateful you think I am ready for the trials.
    QUI-GON : You have been a good apprentice Obi-Wan. And you are a much wiser man than I am. I foresee you will become a great Jedi Knight.

    ROTS:
    ANAKIN: You're going to need me on this one, Master.
    OBI-WAN: Oh, I agree. However it may turn out just to be a wild bantha chase.
    ANAKIN: Master, I've disappointed you. I have not been very appreciative of your training... I have been arrogant and I apologize... I've just been so frustrated with the Council.
    OBI-WAN: You are strong and wise, Anakin, and I am very proud of you. I have trained you since you were a small boy. I have taught you everything I know. And you have become a far greater Jedi than I could
    ever hope to be. But be patient, Anakin. It won't be long before the Council makes you a Jedi Master.
    ANAKIN: Obi-Wan, may the Force be with you.
    OBI-WAN: Good-bye, old friend. May the Force be with you.

    - Both scenes start with "filler" type prequel plot before their serious discussion.
    - Both scenes involve the settling of a disagreement involving the Council.
    - It's a role reversal for Obi-Wan, going from the apologising apprentice to the apology receiving Master.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Finally, this whole disagreement resolution is the last time;

    TPM - Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon have a man-to-man chat before facing Maul, where Qui-Gon is killed.
    ROTS - Anakin and Obi-Wan say there last farewell as friends, before facing each other as mortal enemies.

    Where Maul kills Qui-Gon, and Obi-Wan kills Maul from the low-ground... Vader kills Anakin metaphorically, and Obi-Wan is forced to dismember him from the high-ground:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Qui-Gon: "He is the chosen one... he will bring balance. Train him."
    [​IMG]
    Obi-Wan: "You were the chosen one! It was said that would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness!"
    [​IMG]


    Interestingly, Obi-Wan symbolically uses his defeated Master's saber to kill Maul...
    [​IMG]
    ...and takes his ex-apprentices saber to be passed on to Luke
    [​IMG]



    When Qui-Gon dies, Obi-Wan replaces him as Anakin's Master. When Vader kills Anakin, Obi-Wan loses an apprentice.
    Also significantly, after Vader's defeat and the fall of the Republic, Qui-Gon returns from the netherworld of the force and mentors Yoda and Obi-Wan.
     
  9. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I know that last post may have been a little confusing (and some points were repeats from earlier in the thread), but I would appreciate a response if anyone is willing. I'm overanalysing, but I don't think it is all (completely) coincidence, ROTS seems to be heavily formed from TPM.
    Even if Qui-Gon and Anakin don't have that much in common, Obi-Wan seems to have a lot of inversions related to his two partners, Master and apprentice, in the PT.


    Anyway a few random things again...


    TPM-
    Droid: "There they are (robotic sound)!"
    ROTS-
    Droid: "There they are! Get 'em!"

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Obi-Wan's trust in Anakin grows over the course of the PT, leading to heartbreak when Anakin turns.
    Qui-Gon believes in Anakin, against the Council, in TPM. Mace believes in him against Obi-Wan's judgement in AOTC, but by ROTS Obi-Wan and Mace have swapped roles;

    TPM-
    Obi-Wan: "The boy is dangerous, they all sense it. Why can't you?"
    AOTC-
    Obi-Wan: "I am concerned for my Padawan, he is not ready to be given this assignment on his own yet." ...
    Mace:"Remember Obi-Wan. If the prophecy is true, then your apprentice is the only one who can bring the force back into balance.
    ROTS-
    Mace: "Very dangerous putting the two of them together. I don't think the boy can handle it. I don't trust him."
    Obi--Wan: "With all due respect, is he not the chosen one? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the force?"
    Mace: "So the prophecy says."
    Yoda: "A prophecy that misread could have been."
    Obi-Wan: "He won't let me down. He never has."

    This of course leads to shock later...
    Obi-Wan: "It can't be... it can't be!"

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TPM-
    C-3PO: "Excuse me, but what do you mean naked?"
    R2 beeps
    My parts are showing? My goodness!"
    *R2 laughs*
    ROTS-
    Bail: "Have the protocol droid's mind wiped.
    C3PO: What?
    *R2 does an identical laugh*
    C3PO: Oh no!

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TPM-
    Anakin is freed from Watto's slavery by Qui-Gon, and joins the Jedi.
    ROTS-
    Anakin wants to be freed of the shackles of the Jedi by joining Sidious, but ends up enslaved to him as a broken Sith.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TPM-
    Sebulba (subtitled): "You won't walk away from this one, you slave scum!"
    Anakin: (subtitled): "Don't count on it slime ball!"
    ROTS-
    Dooku: "Your swords please, gentlemen. We don't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor."
    Obi-Wan: You won't get away this time, Dooku."
    Dooku: "I've been looking forward to this."
    Anakin: "My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count."

    Perhaps not intended, just thought it was interesting the magnitudinal difference in the scale of Anakin's "bad-guy" conflict in each film. Perhaps he would have been better off sticking to pod racing...

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This one is kinda funny...

    TPM-
    Sidious: "You have been well trained. They will be no match for you!"
    ROTS-
    Palpatine: "Get help, you're no match for him, he's a Sith Lord!"
    Obi-Wan: "Chancellor Palpatine, Sith Lords are our speciality."

    I've always loved the irony of Obi-Wan's line. He fights three Sith apprentices in his time, helped train the third, and is speaking to the Sith Master himself. Plus he is killed by Vader.
    And Palpatine is being sincere in TPM (despite it leading to Maul's death), where in ROTS the jokes on Dooku.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Within TPM-
    Nute (to Padme): "You assume too much."

    Padme (to Qui-Gon): "You assume too much."


    Another within TPM-
    Sidious: "This turn of events is unfortunate. We must accelerate our plans. Begin landing your troops."

    Palpatine: "I understand your concern, Your Majesty; unfortunately, the Federation has possession of our planet."

    Gee wonder how that happened :p

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TPM-
    After Padme/Amidala is rescued by Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan;
    Qui-Gon: "We must leave the streets your highness."
    ROTS-
    After Palpatine/Sidious is rescued by Anakin (and an unconscious Obi-Wan);
    Palpatine: "Now we must leave, before more security droids arrive."

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Palpatine talking of tragedies he is responsible for;

    TPM-
    "A tragedy has ocurred, that started right here with the taxation of trade routes, and has engulfed our entire planet in the oppression of the Trade Federation!"
    ...
    "Now they will select a new Chancellor. A strong Chancellor. One who will not let our tragedy continue."

    ROTS-
    "Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise?"

    I feel sorry for Padme and Anakin here, they of course being the real tragic characters being manipulated by Palpatine.
    He ordered the invasion, has no interest in helping Padme, and killed Plagueis himself.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Perhaps a clue that the Jedi have put too much faith in the Republic, the two Jedi in TPM have been sent by the current Chancellor at the start of the movie. This can be a little ironic when you observe the conflict between the Jedi and the ROTS Chancellor, Palpatine. They get peeved when Palpatine's control over the Council grows, yet they weren't afraid to work for the Supreme Chancellor in TPM. There are a lot of "from a certain point of view" threads in these movies IMO.

    Some more loosely related to this, mostly centred around "control"...


    TPM-
    Sidious (to TF): "I have the Senate bogged down in procedure. They will have no choice but to accept your control of the system."

    Palpatine (to Padme): "I think we may have to accept Federation control for the time being."

    Obviously playing them both. Also has a connection to ep3...

    ROTS (deleted scene)-
    Palpatine: "Anakin, this afternoon the Senate is going to call on me to take direct control of the Jedi Council."
    ...
    Anakin: "With all due respect, sir, the Council is in no mood for more constitutional amendments."
    Palpatine: Thank you, my friend, but in this case I have no choice... this war must be won.

    The oppressor has become the Republic's government rather than the TF. And Palpatine states he has no choice about taking over (lol). Plus Anakin states in the final cut of the ROTS scene "But the Council selects it's own members, they'll never accept this!", an interesting mirror between the TF oppressing Naboo and Sidious oppressing the Jedi.


    This of course later leads to further hypocrisy from Sidious;
    "You must sense what I have come to suspect... the Jedi Council want control of the Republic. They're planning to betray me."


    One last link...
    TPM-
    Padme: "We must do something quickly to stop the Federation."
    (The same ROTS deleted scene as before)-
    Palpatine: "The Senate is too unfocused to conduct a war. This will bring a quick end to things."

    When you look at it all together, it's quite an interesting commentary on how the Republic became the Empire.
    Padme is leading the opposition after TPM, but we see in TPM she (humanly) showed weakness and unknowingly helped Palpatine rise in power.
     
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  10. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I see TPM as the "Jedi" movie and ROTS as the "Sith" film. Then ROTJ is, of course, "Jedi" again. I might go into ROTJ parallels at a future date.


    TPM
    Twirling saber after cleaning up droids with Qui-Gon:
    [​IMG]
    ROTS
    Twirling saber after cleaning up Clones with Yoda:
    [​IMG]

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    This expands on one I posted elsewhere.
    TPM
    Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are quite synchronised in this film.
    Such as both getting up simultaneously here when they hear the explosion...
    [​IMG]
    Another example...
    [​IMG]
    At the start of ROTS, Anakin and Obi-Wan are similar...
    [​IMG]
    But their bond breaks down over the course of the movie:
    [​IMG]

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    TPM
    [​IMG]
    Besides the "similar in almost every way" mirror of the Theed room...
    [​IMG]
    ROTS has yet another similarity in Gunray's/Grievous's flagships (note the Neimodian sitting in the centre of the room):
    [​IMG]

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    TPM. Breathers put in:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    ROTS. Breather taken out:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I find it curious that Obi-Wan is alone in this scene, having previously lost mentor Qui-Gon, and now been betrayed by his Clones (plus Anakin, though he doesn't know it yet).


    There is also this...
    TPM
    [​IMG]
    ROTS (deleted scene)
    [​IMG]

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    TPM
    Having rescued Amidala, clearing droids...
    [​IMG]
    ROTS
    Having rescued Palpatine, clearing droids...
    [​IMG]
    TPM
    Nubian pilots fleeing:
    [​IMG]

    ROTS
    Neimodian pilots fleeing:
    [​IMG]


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    I've mentioned the parallel between the TPM/ROTS sessions in the Senate, here is a little more on it.

    TPM
    Valorum: "I've called for a special session of the Senate to hear your position."
    ROTS
    Mas Amedda: "Senator Organa... the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic requests your presence at a special session of Congress."

    The two sessions are a role-reversal for Padme; in TPM she is Queen of Naboo and holds more influence than Palpatine (which he takes advantage of), in ROTS she watches on helplessly as Palpatine declares himself Emperor.

    Also, the TPM session ends with a "vote of no confidence" against Valorum (TPM Chancellor), the ROTS session with Sidious (ROTS Chancellor) becoming Emperor. The Senate turns on Valorum because of Palpatine ("Vote now!" is chanted), the Senate turns on the Jedi because of Palpatine (applause, yet they are giving up their right to have any real voting power).

    I really like the irony of this mirror.
     
  11. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Ran out of room for these last two. They are within TPM, holds relevance here I think.


    Introduction of the Jedi
    [​IMG]
    Introduction of the Sith
    [​IMG]


    Introduction of Palpatine playing the Republic
    [​IMG]
    Introduction of Sidious playing the TF (future Seperatists)
    [​IMG]
     
  12. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    TPM - Humourous force-heal
    [​IMG]
    ROTS - Dark force-heal
    [​IMG]

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    TPM - Anakin's "family"
    [​IMG]
    ROTS - Anakin on hearing he killed Padme, metaphorically dying and wholly becoming Vader (Qui-Gon and Shmi previously killed as well)
    [​IMG]

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    TPM
    [​IMG]
    ROTS
    [​IMG]

    Also...
    TPM (Slave Master)
    [​IMG]
    ROTS ("Slave" Master)
    [​IMG]

    And thirdly (sorry about the repeated ROTS image)
    TPM
    [​IMG]
    ROTS
    [​IMG]
    The cool thing about this last one is Palpatine needed to eliminate Vader's ties to the two people between them (Obi-Wan and Padme in the TPM shot) and by breaking these bonds, he ends up with Vader completely subserviant to him (ROTS shot). Also, Anakin contributes to Padme's death, kills Obi-Wan in ANH, and sacrifices his life to kill Sidious in ROTJ. Pretty ironic images in that regard.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    TPM - Maul working with Gunray
    [​IMG]
    ROTS - The true nature of Sidious' relationship with Gunray, having just received confirmation of their ordered deaths by his latest apprentice
    [​IMG]
     
  13. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    A few more for the sake of it :p


    TPM
    "No, he will not be trained."
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    ROTS
    "You are on this Council, but we do not grant you the rank of Master."
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Some reocurring use of night and day...

    TPM
    Pre-invasion Naboo
    [​IMG]
    Post-invasion Naboo
    [​IMG]
    Theed about to be "secured"
    [​IMG]
    Theed "secured"
    [​IMG]
    ROTS
    Jedi Temple pre-turn
    [​IMG]
    Jedi Temple after Anakin turns, during (aptly named) Operation Knightfall
    [​IMG]
     
  14. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I'm cheating on keeping the topic consistent, but here is one where TPM inverts in ROTS then inverts again in ROTJ (There are many like this).

    TPM
    [​IMG]
    ROTS
    [​IMG]
    ROTJ
    [​IMG]
    In TPM the Federation blockades Naboo (opening scene). A role-reversal; in ROTS' opening scene the Seperatists are stopped from leaving Coruscant by Star Destroyers (note the Republic Star Destroyers in the distance). Finally, in ROTJ, it inverts yet again, and the Empire's Star Destroyers stop the Rebels leaving. Note that although the Seperatists (ROTS) and the Rebels (ROTJ) are trapped, they are actually the ones that started each battle.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Another possible role-reversal, although besides the image mirror it is a bit of a stretch...
    TPM: "After the droids take control of the surface they will take control of you." "We don't tink so. They not know of ussen!"
    [​IMG]
    ROTS: "It won't be long before the armies of the Republic track us here. I'm sending you to the Mustafar system in the Outer Rim. It is a volcanic planet. You will be safe there." "Safe?!?"
    [​IMG]
    I do like that the Boss Nass expresses feeling safe from TF invasion, whereas it is the Seperatists hiding in ROTS (role-reversal).


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TPM - Naboo natives advancing from water against droids
    [​IMG]
    ROTS - Kashyyyk natives being advanced on from water by droids
    [​IMG]

    Again...
    TPM
    [​IMG]
    ROTS
    [​IMG]

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TPM
    Qui-Gon (on Eopie): "I have some unfinished business." Obi-Wan: "Why do I sense that we've picked up another pathetic lifeform?"
    [​IMG]
    ROTS
    Obi-Wan (on Eopie) delivering a "pathetic lifeform's" offspring, baby Luke of course also being helpless at this stage
    [​IMG]

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    TPM - Statues at Padme's hangar
    [​IMG]
    ROTS - Statues at Padme's apartment
    [​IMG]



    TPM - Statues in Palpatine's office
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    ROTS - Appropriate statues in Palpatine's office again
    [​IMG]
     
  15. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    A quick extension of the waterfall/lavafall thing if anyone is still interested...

    Working together (horizontal wires) almost going over waterfall:
    [​IMG]
    At each others throats (vertical wires) almost going over lavafall:
    [​IMG]

    The TPM scene leads onto this shot:
    [​IMG]
    Which can mirror a fountain at Padme's apartment ("I'm so sorry") which transitions to the juxtaposition of raging lava at Mustafar:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    TPM - Qui-Gon trying to cut/melt door to get through:
    [​IMG]
    ROTS - Anakin sealing door:
    [​IMG]


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A repeat I think, but the visual of Palpatine smiling is significant...
    TPM: "Together, we shall bring peace and prosperity to the Republic."
    [​IMG]
    ROTS: "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy, and we shall have... peace."
    [​IMG]

    Okay I'm done.
     
  17. Cael-Fenton

    Cael-Fenton Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2006
    I've always loved that inversion. Qui-Gon, the quintessential Jed, breaking through barriers (later to break out and then into the military blockade, and to be released into the Force by a consuming fire) vs Anakin sealing them -- and Anakin will, of course, by the end of that movie, become sealed after a consuming fire within his own pressurised, climate-controlled, oxymoronically 'life'-sustaining tomb.
     
  18. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005


    Firstly, outstanding work, HD!! The one with Padme and the two-bar pattern/obstruction (her POV looking out windows in TPM and ROTS) is quite a fantastic parallel.

    Second, excellent interpretation, Cael. Another way to read it, of course, is to see Qui-Gon as the aggressor, and Anakin as the one who comes up with a creative solution to an urgent problem (as the context of the scene makes clear). Though, in a way, Anakin is the one doing violence, since he is deliberately trapping droids in an explosion, while all Qui-Gon is doing is cutting his way to the bridge, and then being stopped by droids which overpower him and Obi-Wan. Qui-Gon sets himself the process of (ultimately) attempting to cut through three doors; he seems to be close to succeeding. Anakin -- somewhat befitting his "gear-head" nature, perhaps -- welds a service tunnel shut. It's also quite cool to notice that Qui-Gon is very nearly "one" with his saber, with the door, with the task, while Anakin casually seals the hatch at a blade's distance. We've also, of course, got basic colour couplings and/or asymmetries -- a green blade in TPM, a blue one in ROTS. A more "meta" contrast is that one of these is "complete" and in the film, while the latter is a deleted scene in "rough" form.

    But I do really dig your interpretation. I hadn't thought of it running through ROTS so extensively, but it might just be true that Anakin seals barriers as you say. I think, now, of him shutting the doors of the Mustafar control room before slaughtering the Separatists, or of Padme imploring him not to "shut" her out on Coruscant. He is burning all his bridges. Apt, in some poetic sense, that he himself is ultimately burned, and then -- as you've said -- sealed away. That which he does, he becomes. Qui-Gon's adage requires a certain re-calibration in Anakin's case. His focus doesn't solely determine his reality; so do his actions. Though, I suppose, the former also begets the latter.
     
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  19. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Another potential parallel, albeit one which didn't make it into the final cut.

    The Battle of Coruscant was far longer in the script than in the film. This was reflected in the novelisation, which punctuated the battle chapter with a number of soliloquies and inner monologues that tied the story of ROTS back to AOTC and especially to TPM. Anakin's musings on the "dragon" in the heart of the "Hero With No Fear" are explicitly Tatooinian in origin. Obi-Wan's mind dwells on his apprenticeship to Qui-Gon and on the parallels he sees between Anakin and his old master. This thread definitely called the novelisation to mind.

    In the script itself, there's a very TPM-esque sequence:

    Now this is podracing?

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The Eta-2 interceptor does have a small central "pod" cockpit, after all, and it has similar control yokes to Anakin's iconic racing machine. The wings of the Eta-2, along the inner edges of which the pilot has excellent frontal visibility, are similar in that regard to the engines of a podracer. It even follows the same agility-focused design ethos as Anakin's podracer, contrasted against the overly bulky ARC-170, analogous to the other racers on the field in TPM.
     
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  20. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Thought I would expand slightly on an old observation.



    TPM (notice ascending ramp in background)
    [​IMG]
    ROTS (notice descending ramp in background)
    [​IMG]
    These scenes involve the padawan (Obi-Wan in TPM) apologising to the Master about a disagreement between Qui-Gon and the Council, and the padawan (Anakin in ROTS) apologising to the Master (now Obi-Wan) about a disagrement between Anakin and the Council. Besides the fact that it is a major role-reversal for Obi-Wan (going from Padawan to Master, yet still being the one to side with the Council), both scenes are a "farewell"of sorts; it is the last time Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon have a one-on-one before Maul kills Qui-Gon, and the last time Anakin and Obi-Wan have a one-on-one as friends before they face each other as enemies.

    Something interesting though, is the fact that these farewells are later followed by these mirroring briefings:

    TPM
    [​IMG]
    ROTS
    [​IMG]
    The dialogue links;

    TPM -
    Padme: "The Gungans must draw the Droid Army away from the cities. We can enter the city using the secret passages on the waterfall side. Once we get to the main entrance, Capt. Panaka will create a diversion, so that we can enter the palace and capture the Viceroy. Without the Viceroy, they will be lost and confused."
    ROTS -
    Cody: Fortunately, most of the cities are concentrated on this small continent here . . . on the far side.
    Obi-Wan: I'll keep them distracted until you get there. Just don't take too long.
    Cody: Come on, boss, when have I ever let you down?
    Obi-Wan: Very well, the burden is on me not to destroy all the droids before you get there.

    Also in an earlier ROTS scene... "The capture of General Grievous will end this war." Both times mentioning the capture of the droid-leaders (Gunray / Grievous) to end the conflict.



    I think something it also demonstrates is a contrasting formation of alliances (Nubians and Gungans) vs a breakdown in alliances (Jedi and Clones).
     
  21. L110

    L110 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2014
    The style creates the meaning, they are the same thing. By the way try to compare Pulp Fiction with Django Unchained or Beetlejuice with Batman sometimes. Do these films look same to you?
     
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  22. MatthewZ

    MatthewZ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Some locales; Senate, Jedi Temple, Naboo Palace can be seen through the prequels transitioning from Day Time (EpI), Twilight (Ep2) and Night (Ep3).
     
  23. Darth Schlotkin

    Darth Schlotkin Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Sooo...This!
    The amount of work needed to conceptualize & accomplish all this really shows the talent of GL at visual storytelling, evident from THX1138 to ROTS!

    While to some people SW is similar to ST (i don't see that, just the STAR in the title is the same), i think the most similar film to SW in terms of style is Conan the barbarian (the 80s one). Both visual storytelling of epic cinematic operas at its finest!!!
    I think i've even seen Conan somewhere with only the music playing, but can't remember if that was somewhere on the internet or some weird DVD edition.
    I would love it if a future SW release had that option!
     
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  24. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    An excuse to bump this thread...

    TPM
    Sidious: "You have been well trained my young apprentice. They will be no match for you!"
    Maul proves to be deadlier than Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, yet Obi-Wan eventually defeats him.
    ROTS
    Sidious: "You will not stop me. Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!"
    Vader is also eventually defeated by Obi-Wan.


    Another possible link between Qui-Gon and Sidious dialogue;
    TPM
    Qui-Gon: "There's always a bigger fish."
    ROTS
    Palpatine: "Yes, thanks to your two Jedi Knights. The killed Count Dooku. But General Grievous has escaped once again."
     
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  25. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I'm reading the Phantom Menace novel at the moment. Hopefully it may give me some ideas to post here when I'm done.