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Siri Tachi: a characterization discussion

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by PadawanRoo, Aug 2, 2004.

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  1. PadawanRoo

    PadawanRoo Jedi Master star 1

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    Aug 7, 2003
    first off, let me just say that this isn't a critisism of anyone's characterization/writing. I've read many 'good Siri' stories that I've enjoyed thoroughly.

    However: the cannon has her falling to the dark side/leaving the order shortly after episode one, and her characterization up to that point shows many of the same characteristics that, in Anakin, forshadow darkness.

    I'm led to wonder why it is that so many authors choose to play up these characteristics in Anakin, often forgetting to include his nobler tendencies, while Siri writers mark these darker inclinations as things she grows out of, or just plain play them down.

    I suppose in a way this could be considered related to the 'demonization of Anakin Skywalker' thread, but really I'm just looking for thoughts and opinions. If you write Siri, how do you write her and why? Even if you don't, do you have any thoughts on how/why this tendency developed?
     
  2. Jedikma

    Jedikma Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 5, 2004
    Siri does not fall to the dark side, she goes undercover, although you could argue that going undercover isn't a good thing for a Jedi to do. I'm sure that things happened to her undercover that weren't good, but she remained a dedicated Jedi and strived to be so.

    I do write Siri and I also have explored what may have happened to her during this time.

    Siri has something of rebelious streak but when push comes to shove she follows the Code. (Edit: She really is more like Qui-Gon in character than Anakin)
     
  3. JadeSolo

    JadeSolo Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 20, 2002
    When she first appears in the JA books, she and Obi-Wan are almost opposites of how we see them now (IMO) - she's the staunch Code-follower, and Obi-Wan's the rebel without a...master. Er, yeah. 8-} She berates him for leaving the Order and being a bad influence on others.

    Fast-forward to the JQ books. Obi-Wan looks at her wearing her leather unisuit (no comment, except that hey, it's canon now!), and thinking about how she loosened up after her time undercover with the pirate Krayn. She still follows the rules, still respects the Code, but she's not as tightly wound as before. Obi-Wan, on the other hand, after he was accepted back into the Order, became much more careful about what he was allowed to do - and Siri comments on this (JA books).

    It's interesting that she chose Ferus of all people as her padawan, since he's as tightly wound as she used to be. Maybe he'll grow out of that. :p
     
  4. Jedikma

    Jedikma Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 5, 2004
    Jade
    I think you summed up Siri quite well. The biggest problem with her character is that we always see her through Obi-Wan's eyes (or in some cases, Anakin's) and so it is actually hard to interpret why she does the things she does. Beyond Obi-Wan's thoughts, we are really left with filling in the blanks ourselves. (For a fan fic writer, that can actually be a plus. It gives us a little more to play with.)
     
  5. PadawanRoo

    PadawanRoo Jedi Master star 1

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    Aug 7, 2003
    meep, I'm sorry! The databank talks about her blowing off the order, and I'll admit to not being as diligent on the JQ books as I was on JA. silly outdated databank entries.

    I've alwayas really liked writing Siri. she's very straightforward and honest-- a sort of "no, I don't have to take any bull from you and I'm not going to" person. The comparison to Qui-Gon is one I hadn't thought of, but you're right. They have that same sort of sharp edge to them, and can intimidate the heck out of people.

    and on an only vaguely related subject: Siri/Obi-Wan.

    I've always liked it when it's done well-- these are two characters who at least start their lives very very dedicated to the Jedi code, and while they loosen up over time, I'm not inclined to see either of them as the sort to go off for a snog without at least considering the fact that it's against the rules-- but I certainly don't see them as my "OTP" or anything.

    Thoughts?
     
  6. Mistress_Renata

    Mistress_Renata Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 9, 2000
    From the JA books, she had a MAJOR attitude... sarcastic, bad-tempered and sort of stuck-up, not to mention ultra-competitive. Those are not exactly qualities I envision the Jedi accepting in their candidates, so that Siri might turn to the Darkness is not that great a stretch for me.

    Don't get me started on the leather outfit. (Can you tell she's not one of my favorite characters?)
     
  7. PadawanRoo

    PadawanRoo Jedi Master star 1

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    Aug 7, 2003
    lol, M_R. As a costume design student I have to admit that I'm not about the leather outfit. If you look at Adi Galia's clothes, which are pretty standard fare, and some of the stuff Leia wears (like the Endor uniform), Star Wars women can make anything look elegant and sharp, so skintight leather just isn't necessary. And I don't see our esteemed council being ok with her walking around in a catsuit.

    I've always given her a much darker edge than I see a lot of other authors give her, but I can see it go either way.

    I also wasn't much of a fan of her when she first showed up in JA (she was mean to Obi-Wan, and "we 'ates mean girls, doesn't we, precious?"), but she grew on me. And as an intellectual exercise, I like trying to get inside her head to write her.

    does anybody else see the similarity to Anakin, or am I insane?
     
  8. Vongchild

    Vongchild Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 2, 2004
    Does anyone remember that Siri is very fast to speak her mind or speak the truth? As I remember from JA9, this is exactly how she landed herself in the re-learning circle. And then, of course, she's the first to make the move to get her, Obi-wan, and Davi out of there. She's very obidient to the code until the master's are gone, whereapon she's off doing slightly stupid things.

    Obi-siri is very hard to write because none of it is actually canon. We've never seen them do any more than be good friends... I think. :-D I might have missed something. But it is very love-hate, no one admiting love. Very similar to luke-mara. She often calls him Kenobi.
     
  9. Dev_Binks

    Dev_Binks Jedi Knight star 6

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    Aug 7, 2003
    So anybody care to describe the leather thingy? OR what exactly happened to her, I never bothered with reading the JQ books, or the latter parts of the JA.
     
  10. Jedikma

    Jedikma Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 5, 2004
    She is described as wearing a leather uni-suit as her Jedi garb and since it isn't the standard Jedi tunic clothing it is viewed as somewhat rebellious.

    The clothing is never described as 'skin tight'. Because our society today is so focused on sexuality, it appears that a lot of people are simply assuming it is skin thight. I don't see it that way, myself.

    I have seen a lot of women wear one piece pant-suits (or jump suits) through the years and they aren't skin tight. Woman in general do not dress like cat woman.

    As far as what happened to Siri, she went undercover to gather information on a slaver, to bring his operation down. In order to follow out her assingnment the Order (except for the Council) was lead to believe that she had an arguement with her Master and was denied Knighthood which caused her to defect.
     
  11. Dev_Binks

    Dev_Binks Jedi Knight star 6

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    Aug 7, 2003
    Ahh, so what about that last line in your sig?
     
  12. Jedikma

    Jedikma Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 5, 2004
    A new story is being written that deals with Obi-Wan's attraction to Siri through the years. Obi-Wan clearly loves her, but they are Jedi and they never have a relationship beyond a friendship.
     
  13. red rose knight

    red rose knight Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 3, 2001
    Unfortunately, that new book is written by Jude Watson and I have long since lost faith in her story telling. I still buy the books because I am a stupid SW fan, but I do also reference them for stuff and to check out character interactions.

    Then throw all that out the window when I write. :p

    I am one of those who has written Siri in the leather ?cat suit? because I think it fits her character. I admit, I have taken some liberties with her character and have been accused of making her too frank and too ?wild? to be a Jedi. She speaks her mind and doesn?t put up with junk; that is what I have gleaned about her personality. The same way, I don?t see her doing little acts of rebellion, I see her not hiding from it. To me, she is also fiercely loyal to the Jedi (and her friends). Her time undercover may have changed her attitude and how she deals with things, but I think her core beliefs are still the same.

    I kind of wonder how skewed our image of the Jedi are. I think we have primarily seen the best of the best. Obi-Wan (even with flaws) is held up as the pinnacle of the Jedi Knight at that time. Every single Jedi cannot be just like that. I don?t think Anakin would have been allowed to remain a Jedi so long if he was so far outside the realm of acceptable. Even with his problems, attitude and whatnot, he stays a Jedi until whatever makes him turn. I think a lot of Jedi on the surface were like him, but most didn?t have a ?prophesy? and Palpatine in the background secretly fostering his eventual turn. Anakin could have lived a long life as a good Jedi, he may not have been put on a pedestal as the embodiment of the perfect Jedi, but it wouldn?t have made him any less a Jedi.

    Chivalric codes and Bushido make for great tales of honorable warriors, but historically it really wasn?t like that. So I find it hard to place such a high standard on the Jedi Order.
     
  14. Jedikma

    Jedikma Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 5, 2004
    I suppose the truth is we have all taken our own liberties with the character.

    I don't write her in the "cat suit" mostly because I resent that a woman has to use her sexuality to get attention. I don't know why Siri would have to do that. Fruthermore dressing like that only attracts the wrong kind of men and I would think that an irritation in itself to Siri. I see her as more intelligent than that.

    While I don't see her hiding her figure or her beauty I don't see her 'flaunting' it either. That is obviously my personal view.

    While I do like that Siri is out spoken and doesn't put up with junk, I try hard not to make her come off sounding like a witch, because I don't think that constitutes a strong woman. I also resent that a woman has to sacrifice her feminity to be considered strong, so I sometimes soften her up.

    I guess what I like most about Siri is the way she interacts with Obi-Wan. Together the characters can be very dynamic and fun to write. That they are both fighting an attraction they are not allowed to have also inspires interesting situations between them.

     
  15. red rose knight

    red rose knight Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 3, 2001
    I guess what I like most about Siri is the way she interacts with Obi-Wan. Together the characters can be very dynamic and fun to write. That they are both fighting an attraction they are not allowed to have also inspires interesting situations between them.

    [face_love] I totally agree.
     
  16. Dev_Binks

    Dev_Binks Jedi Knight star 6

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    Aug 7, 2003
    Personally I see Siri as being like Wedge, when she has to be she's focused on her job, when she isn't she can be relaxed, and loose. Just like Wedge. A female Wedge of course. And I personally think that Siri's going to be in ROTS.
     
  17. Mistress_Renata

    Mistress_Renata Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 9, 2000
    I also have to point out (from a swordswoman point of view) leather is not flexible. Even the soft stuff. Your movements are more restricted. I seriously doubt her fighting capabilities in a get up like that. I also have to point out that the loose, flowing Jedi robes hide your movements from your opponent. You learn about your opponent's next move by watching their torso and their hips, their foot position and how they shift their weight. In those loose flowing garments (like the samurai pants!) a lot of those clues are hidden. In leather... you might as well just SAY "I'm going to come at you with an overhead blow from the left!"



     
  18. JadeSolo

    JadeSolo Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 20, 2002
    LOL, well, Renata, you can blame all those inconsistencies on Jude Watson. :D

    I like Siri because of her attitude. She doesn't always have a lightsaber up her ass, but she's not the wild rebel she comes off as. And I especially like the comparison to Wedge, actually - it really fits. Wedge is willing to bend the rules to save his pilots or when he absolutely knows that he's about to do the right thing. Otherwise, he more or less follows the rules (I mean, there's a reason why he's the leader of Rogue Squadron ;) ). She's kind of like Han, too.

    If Siri is anything like Anakin, it's because both tend to be action-oriented people. Rather than just sit around and ponder what to do, they'll kind of make things up as they go along (like Indiana Jones :D ). Siri, though, being more experienced, probably isn't as rash as Anakin.

    Eh, I think Watson created her as a plot device, and then tried to make an actual character when she realized how much people liked Siri. I haven't read the JQ books all that closely, but from what I can see, there's not a lot of time spent on Siri. More just what she's wearing and how see-through it is. [face_plain]
     
  19. Dev_Binks

    Dev_Binks Jedi Knight star 6

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    Aug 7, 2003
    That's designed so that she can apease the 11-13 year old guys that read them after getting hooked on the JA books. :p Oh and if you've played JediStarfighter then you know that the designers portrayed her as being kinda panicky with three/eight cap ships, but that's understandable. And it shows she's a good pilot, like her master... :p
     
  20. PadawanRoo

    PadawanRoo Jedi Master star 1

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    Aug 7, 2003
    I think it's a bit deeper than both being action-oriented.

    They're both very sure. They don't 'think' they're good... they KNOW they're good. They're both so willing to solve their problems with swords because they KNOW they're going to win. Why stand around and talk when there's a more efficient way to solve the problem?
     
  21. Jedikma

    Jedikma Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 5, 2004
    I just had to pop back in about Siri's clothes. Before you fault Jude Watson too much for dressing her improperly I just happened to take a look at AToC and in the scene where Obi-Wan is walking in the Temple to see Yoda in the room where he is teaching the younglings there is a female Jedi walking down a set of stairs in the background. You should catch the outfit she is wearing. She is wearing skin tight pants and a skin thight midriff top cut low in the bust. She is a Jedi because she has a lightsaber on her belt. She is also Twilek because her skin is blue.

    My point is this...looks like GL has sanctioned that outfit whether it is traditional Jedi garb or not. Siri must not be the only "rebelious" one in the group. [face_laugh]

    red Now it makes me wonder, who is to say that your characterization of Siri isn't the more accurate one?

    Edit: I finally managed to do a little more research on the Jedi clothes and if you want to talk about difficulty in fighting, look at Luminaria and Barriss. They both wear pretty heavy looking full skirts. I think that would definately be difficult to wear for any fighting. There are a variety of Jedi clothes that aren't necessarily practical, but they do look good. ;)

     
  22. red rose knight

    red rose knight Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 3, 2001
    I finally managed to do a little more research on the Jedi clothes...There are a variety of Jedi clothes that aren't necessarily practical, but they do look good.

    I think it is one of those cases where we have to suspend disbelief and imagine there is some sort of technological magic that makes it all work. ;)

    I am very visually oriented. I know that on the other side of all these posts, there are real people, but everybody in my mind looks like their icons. If you have Kermit the Frog holding a lightsaber as an avatar, then that's what I imagine you too look like. I often can't break myself of the image.

    So, naturally, the Jedi Quest comic mini-series ruined me. I know Siri is blond, but I see Siri as sort of red-head. (Krayn was portrayed as a big blue alien monster when I seem to remember he was just a human. I could be wrong though.) And this [link=http://images.tfaw.com/covers/99/99314.jpg]cover[/link] (and the comic in general) locked into my brain how she dresses.

    I see her in the "cat suit" but I almost always have her in her cloak, so it isn't always so obvious what she is wearing and gives her that formlessness.
     
  23. Jedikma

    Jedikma Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 5, 2004
    While clothes do somwhat define a person, I hate to focus only on that anyway. When reading I don't 'see' so much as I 'feel' unlike movies that draw on the visual. Therefore I can more easily look past what she is wearing and focus more on who she is underneath the facade.

    Again, liberties can be taken because her character isn't that well defined, but we do see her mostly through Obi-Wan's eyes. I think some of what I think of who Siri is correlates with what I think Obi-Wan would admire in a woman. Sometimes I draw on her character from that angle. ;)



     
  24. PadawanRoo

    PadawanRoo Jedi Master star 1

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    Aug 7, 2003
    well if you look at Ayla Secuira's clothing in Ep II, one can pretty much deduce that Twi'lek jedi get away with bloody murder where their apparel is concerned.

    If you have Kermit the Frog holding a lightsaber as an avatar, then that's what I imagine you too look like.

    Lol, Red! if I were allowed to upload my own icon, the one I have on my computer is little Roo, balancing on his tail, in a jedi robe. (I'm secretely a kangaroo. Shhhh.... don't tell anyone! The marsupial population is still smarting from the great Kanga Purges of '98. We were chased across the entire fandom, surviving only in pockets of resistance, hiding in the dark corners of conns... the empire must never suspect our presence!).

    I definetely know what you mean, though. When people have icons of famous characters, I hear in my head those character's voices reading their posts. I forget who it was, but a while ago I was quite shocked to discover someone was female after being certain for months that they looked just like Obi-wan as he appeared in their icon.

    ...and because staying on topic is what tiggers do best...

    how do you think Siri would react to the pruges? how do you think she'd go down? (been looking at that purges challenge. I have a thought or two, but nothing worth sharing at this point).

    ~Roo
     
  25. Vongchild

    Vongchild Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 2, 2004
    I always have her slipping back under the name of Zara and flying under the radar on some sleazy industrial world like Kaut. Often with a child, the product of a siriwan relationship or an OC lover.
     
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