Lit Sith Empire-Canon

I was saying that Lucas's idea was that after they killed their founder, they became like that while Bane stayed hidden.

 

If they bring back the Sith species, I'd like for the Sith species to stay around until 1000 years before the movies. If you're going to make them so important to the Sith Order's history that the Sith Order was named after them, they should be around for the majority of the time that the Sith Order exists rather than coming and going early on.

 

No, sith species pls i still hate that. I hope rather they come up with the sith themselfs and not because of a specie. why not a jedi specie lets do what canon has done so far more grounded and relaistic. invent a specie similar yes, but no sith specie pls.

 

I like the idea that Sith Lords and Jedi Knights were originally part of the same feudal system... their very names suggest so.

Selfless knights who served their ambitious Lords, until eventually banding together to overthrow their Lords and establish a Repubic.

If there is any Sith species, that species should have another name: Human.

 

. . . huh?

IMO I don't think the Jedi once having been subservient to the Sith deepens the story at all, I think it makes things more confusing. Just because they have similar sounding titles don't mean Jedi were once subservient to Sith, anymore than someone with a Master's degree has legal authority over me or that I'm subservient to the Burger King. And I think you're taking the feudal titles a bit too literally.

After all, if we take this to it's logical conclusion, "Padawans" should be squires, Jedi should be addressed as "Sir so-and-so" instead of "Master so-and-so", and logically we'd have Sith Kings, Sith Queens, Sith Princes, Sith Barons, Sith Dukes, Sith Duchesses to go with all the Sith Lords.

 

The TPM novelization says, "In the end, the Sith destroyed themselves. They destroyed their leader first, then each other. What few survived the initial bloodbath were quickly dispatched by watchful Jedi. In a matter of only weeks, all of them died."

Kerra Holt fits "dispatched by watchful Jedi" perfectly.

 

Obviously they wouldn’t be the same as their movie incarnations. Imagine Sith Lords of the Roan Fel or Tenel Ka type, and Jedi more like Imperial Knights.

 

I hope we don't have all those different schisms. There should only be one schism, that being the schism that formed the Jedi and Sith. Also, having multiple "great schisms" makes the "great" meaningless.

 

It's a novel take, I'll grant you, but it seems mostly based on the idea that "Lord is a feudal title, Knight is a feudal title, in medieval times Lords were higher up on the totem pole than Knights, therefore Sith Lords were in charge of Jedi Knights once upon a time, QED". It's like assuming that Lee Char is Leia's brother because he's a Prince and she's a Princess.

 

It's not an assumption, I just think it would be a cool twist, to make it different from the Old EU.

I also think it's similar to some of Lucas's first drafts.

 

In the art book for TLJ, one of the artists designing the first Jedi temple says he had wanted to incorporate visual elements from the Emperor’s throne room from ROTJ to allude to an era where Jedi and Sith were one, and, to paraphrase his words, when there may have been no dark side at all.

This is a conceptual comment, of course, but I do like some ideas this brings to mind about the ancient conflict of Sith and Jedi. Mainly, that the Force truly reflects the state of the people in the galaxy, and that the balance and “natural” state of that force is affected by individuals. So when the first leader of the Sith embraced the dark side, it was a truly historical event. He not only created the Sith, but redefined the Jedi. It meant that he essentially “created” or “became” the dark side itself. I don’t mean this literally, not in the sense of his being an incarnation of something abstract and Lovecraftian, but rather in terms of his embodying everything that he and the other Sith would effect in the Force as a result of their actions. Being part of an origin story, he became the type for all future dark siders.

So this leader would parallel the Emperor in the OT, where his lack of specific background gave him an almost archetypal or mythical feel. He was the dark side that tempted Vader to fall. He was the dark side that was now tempting Luke. So, ideally, any story that explores this ancient period would skip the point in time when the leader was alive, since he would be generally similar to the Emperor. The point of having a new story is that it explores a different dynamic. And the story focuses on the conflicts between the former followers or pupils as they each begin to understand their new roles and power without a single guiding figure. That would be truly interesting to me.

That said, I would prefer for these eras to not be explored directly. Then we run into design issues, which, if we consider these would be stories told by writers and not production teams, would likely not be well resolved. Keep the past as the past, though by all means allow characters closer to the present learn or talk about them. How did those events affect our characters today; how do our stories today mirror those of the ancients? An indirect approach is my choice, for aesthetic purposes mainly.

 

I wonder if the sort of things that we see in the Jedi vs. Sith comic (and the Darth Bane novels inspired by it) such as "Jedi Lords", "the Army of Light", "the Brotherhood of Darkness", etc. should, if they're canon at all, be precursors to the modern Jedi and Sith rather than temporary regressions.

 

- I feel like the name "Xendor" is much more intimidating than "Ajunta Pall" (not that I expect to see either name canonized).

- Interestingly, the "Scum and Villainy" book mentions the Krath using carbonite-freezing to take over the Empress Teta system.

 

This was what my thoughts were back in 2015 when we first saw the name First Order but didn't know anything about it - that the First Order was the first order of Force users from which the Sith and Jedi orders emerged from.

The design of the Prime Jedi, with the light and dark sides in balance, also reflects this, IMO.

 

I'm kind of opposed to the conception of the Jedi as a non-balanced group, since their stated goal is balance in the Force. They align with the Light Side because it is the path of selflessness and service to Life itself. They try to help attain balance by opposing darkness. It is the Sith and the Dark Side that reject balance in the first place and strive to expand their power over the Force. An individual that tries to align with both Light and Dark, or neither, ends up in a place of apathy where they allow the Dark Side to spread.

 

Light is Balance, Dark is Imbalance
Light is Healthy Body, Dark is Cancerous Body

 

The Jedi serve the Force by maintaining balance. We see them do this primarily through their fight against the dark side. They maintain the balance between the aspect of the Force that is reflected in creation and life (the light) and the aspect that is reflected in destruction and death (the dark). But both aspects are natural, as we see in the Mortis arc of The Clone Wars and in The Last Jedi. It is the Sith, specifically, whom Lucas considered to be a cancer. They tipped the balance by making the dark side stronger than it should be. We know little of the ancient past of the galaxy, and likely there was always suffering of some kind or another. But it seems to me that the emergence of the Sith took this to an unprecedented level. I think this tells us something intriguing about the ancient Jedi.

We know from Rebels that the ancient Jedi had a connection to the Mortis gods as well as to the priestesses that taught Yoda the secret of immortality. We don't know the details of that connection, nor do I think we should know them, but I infer at least two interesting things from it:

(1) The limits to what the Force can do are undiscovered, likely its potential is limitless. It's a truly cosmic force, and there will always be more than can be learned about it. The Mortis gods, the priestesses, and the ancient Jedi temples that appeared in the animated series showed us this.

(2) The ancient Jedi knew far more about the Force than the Jedi from the era of the Republic. Their ancient temples and sites of power were as lost and mythical to modern Jedi as they were to anyone else. And their feats seem incredible to modern Jedi. A great deal of knowledge about the Force has been lost through the ages.​

I interpret this to mean that the ancient Jedi, the original order that held all that knowledge and power, profoundly diminished over the ages, ever since the emergence of the Sith. The wars that resulted, as well as their effect on the Force, weakened the Jedi, not so much in terms of power but mainly in terms of wisdom, of knowledge of the Force, of how to use that power. I think that is why, in many ways, Jedi training is now depicted as something so risky. In both Rebels and the ST, we see how easy it is for aspiring Jedi to become seduced by the dark side. But perhaps that was not always so, and in many ways the first Sith truly "created" the dark side as we know it now, as the unnaturally strong allure to selfish power.

Consider the parallel of human culture. A culture can take centuries and millennia to slowly build itself up from the struggle of countless men and women. Little by little, a civilization grows, people gain wisdom and power that curtail their more destructive impulses and improve their lot in life. But all of that can disappear easily, whether through natural disaster or war, civilization can turn into barbarism. I think something similar happened to the ancient Jedi when the first Sith fell to the dark side. Their original, unified culture was gradually lost, perhaps rather quickly in that Hundred Year Darkness that followed the fall. The Jedi are still devoted to balance, but in this age (ST) that means fighting the dark side more than anything else, because it is still so unnaturally strong.

The destruction of the Sith put an end to that pattern of imbalance, but the dark side is still strong after the OT. Perhaps it is growing weaker, as it finds its place in nature once more. Luke defeated it by learning to not fear it, redeeming Vader, who ended the Sith. But he is human, and eventually his fear of the dark side once more contributed to its strength. You don't simply win once, you have to keep on winning with each day and each generation because change doesn't happen overnight, whether it's personal or cosmic.

 

How would you have reacted if instead of saying, "Once we were brothers in the Force. But from the Hundred-Year Darkness were born the Sith", the Holocron in Star Wars #9 said "Once we were brothers in the Force. But from the Force War were born the Sith"?

We could get something like, "The Sith began when Je'daii Knight Ulic Qel-Droma and his Padawan Exar Kun turned to the dark side and became Darth Revan and Darth Nihilus, respectively."

 

I'd love if every Dark Lord from "the lone dissident in an order of harmonious followers" who started the Sith through the last Sith who's existence Jedi knew about has a tomb on Moraband.

 

I wonder: How would things have developed had the TPM novelization said "thousands of years ago" instead of "almost two thousand years ago?" Would there be an "Old Sith Wars"/"New Sith Wars" divide? Would "the lone dissident in an order of harmonious followers" be interpreted as referring to Xendor, Pall, Kun, etc.?

 

I wonder how common Dark Jedi with no connection to the Sith were after the Hundred-Year Darkness but before the Sith went "extinct". Were there Grindelwalds to the Sith's Death Eaters?

 

Dark jedi were pretty common in that era i believe. The citadel from TWC was made to hold jedi who lost their way aka dark jedi. I think dark jedi were more before sith became extinct. But how powerfull and how mutch off a treath did they become so they build a citadel to hold them.