ST Snoke/Andy Serkis Discussion Thread

Snoke seems to be the result of unnatural abilities, 'cloning, dark science'. A creature from Dr Moureau's island, a creature from Jurassic Park, a Xenomorph, etc.

All of them were based on the twisting of the 'natural', just as the sith were a twisting of the jedi, so I think the creature we call Snoke was once real, or was based in real models, or as a creature against those models and similar to them, just like a terminator is more effective the more similar to a human he/she is.
Maybe that's what Snoke is, a weapon from the past; a sith terminator/xenomorph anti-jedi weapon from the past who was made not to notice that he was just that, and yet still manipulable.
There are some ideas about that (Plagueis, kaminoans, the Yinchorr template, etc) in the Plagueis novel. Maybe Palpatine merely cloned (=resurrected) 'Snoke'

 

I also like to think that Snoke is unaware of his true purpose/origin. He might view himself as autonomous, oblivious even of the fact that Sidious is still around.

 

Way back post TFA there were theories that he was originally beautiful to look at, with angelic features, blond hair and blue eyes. Looking at him in TLJ, he has startling blue eyes.
I actually think they should have taken this concept and ran with it, because if Snoke had 'appeared' in Ben's mind as a beautiful man it would have been very easy to accept that a young child wouldn't see him as evil.
We never found out how he got disfigured, making him simply a tool of Palpatine's spoiled a lot of things.

 

Frankly, I love the ambiguity of Snoke. I like that Star Wars has history, characters, elements that just exist without a backstory. It adds to the idea that it's a large galaxy with an established history.

 

Snoke was Hugh Hefner. Hugh Hefner lives!

 

Yoda, again? 'Truly wonderful the mind of a child is'

That's a child's skull. Creepy, if one remembers 'your son is dead[...]the supreme leader is wise'.

Also, maybe Snoke knew these dead people. He likes this place very much, or so he says.

As for the 'new name':
https://boards.theforce.net/threads...ussion-thread.50052908/page-234#post-56686646

 

StarWars.com updated a few of its databank entries with info from TROS. They support the theory that Snoke was fully controlled by Palpatine.

From Snoke’s own entry:

“Kylo Ren turned on his master and killed him, but would soon learn that Snoke had been a mere puppet, created and controlled by a more powerful master of the dark side.”​

From Palpatine’s entry:

“He also targeted Luke Skywalker as he tried to rebuild the Jedi Order, using his puppet Snoke to help lead Ben Solo into darkness.”​

That fits with a comment from screenwriter Chris Terrio back in late 2019, where he treated Snoke and Palpatine interchangeably:

“That really helped us in thinking about Rey and Kylo Ren, which is to say that we wanted to elaborate on the idea that Snoke bridged their minds in ‘The Last Jedi.’ But what we wanted to say is that there’s something deeper there, and leave it to debate about at which point they became this dyad in the Force, where they were really two, or were they one, whether that was a mistake that Palpatine made by bridging them and therefore creating this thing.”​

 

No, it doesn't. Not even close, in Snoke's case.

 

Good talk. Thanks!

 

there are plenty of character without backstories. And many of them don't need one like Snoke.

 

Yes, I'm glad I pointed out that it's ludicrous to say that Snoke's lack of a backstory is what makes him interesting when all he is simply an extension of a pre-existing character who got thrown in at the last second for entirely dubious reasons.

 

I'm glad too. It's really cool how you feel the need to announce that you think that something I like about Star Wars is ludicrous. Comments like this really contribute to a great atmosphere on these forums and encourages more conversation. You should drive by my house and throw a bag of crap at it if you don't like the color of my front door. If you really want to engage in discussion about it, you might try a different approach.

 

Was there any doubts after Snoke was acting like Palpatine in TLJ?? From then on I was thinking and hoping that Snoke was Palpatine. Same thing with Rey in TFA on her stabby moves, raw power, and Emperor’s faster theme used on her theme...I was thinking and hoping she has to be a Palpatine.

In the OT, it introduced Palpatine as the puppet master.

In the PT, it shows the audience how Palpatine manipulates his puppets.

In the ST, it just proves how he is the best puppet master ever that even the audience couldn’t see the strings until the last act.

 

Because there were no strings to see, he wasn't written into the ST until the last act. The audience can't exactly see a retcon 2 films in advance.

 

That is my guess. As Palpatine would keep the body for possible experiments later. Snoke being one of the failures they talk about but since the material came from a powerful Dark Sider Palpatine was able to jump into the body at least before using it up and needing another Snoke Body to project himself while building up the first order.

If they are saying Snoke is an artificial creation the Last Jedi book saying the leaders Snoke killed off knew who he was but were surprised he rose to power makes sense as they were shocked Palpatine really came back from the dead.

 

Based on the books, it seems that Snoke and his forces encountered the First Order in the years following the Battle of Jakku, when the Imperial fleet was lost and struggling to survive in the Unknown Regions.

Few people in the Order, including its leaders, knew anything about Snoke. He was as much a mystery to them as he was to the audience. But he was powerful in the Force, and he guided the fleet to safety. These were important factors that cemented his leadership. Of course, he also had any dissenters killed in the process.

I don’t believe any of the leaders knew he was a clone, or if they did learn more about Exegol, they were probably killed. Based on what we know, Pryde may have been among the Imperials from Snoke’s fleet, though there are contradictions in the books regarding this.

But I think his line in the TLJ book about being the last thing the Imperials expected as a leader is more about who Snoke presented himself as: a mysterious master of the dark side. That could be retconned to mean Palpatine, but I’m not sure it’s necessary.

 

I see an entry now claims in addition to being an artificial life form created by Palpatine it claims Snoke did have free will but he was just made to test Kylo. Kind of contradicts itself unless they say Palpatine would just temporarily take over Snoke's body entirely.

Heck in the Last Jedi novel they have Snoke literally thinking about his past and his past is 100% Palpatine's.

 

Where is this entry?

 

Palpatine says 'I made Snoke' to Kylo.

Han and Leia made Ben Solo. Ben's 'hardware' was not Palpatine's. His body, his organism. Palpatine had to 'reprogram' Ben -thoughts, behaviour, 'software'- and even then his success was not complete.

But I think Snoke was designed, or made, to be influenciable at that 'hardware', biological level. Palpatine could impersonate voices, as we see in TROS, but Ben/Kylo retained his own independent sense of self and could contradict those voices or ignore them.

With Snoke...well, Snoke's reptilian brain, let's say. Palpatine stoking those brain's primal instincts directly. Aggression, fear, etc. You don't have to think Snoke's thoughts, because whatever thoughts coming from that influence would be biased towards the dark side and at the same time they would look like his own thoughts; those choices, his own choices. Snoke would not know his free will not to be free at all. On the contrary, he would think himself to be free in the most natural way possible.

Then, having desiged the creep, you model Snoke's external circumstances -his 'biography', all those scars for example- to fit those instincts>thoughts; and then the resultant thoughts>instincts to fit his new circumstances, and then a dark side feedback loop would be created.
That's what Rey feels in the TLJ novel; when Snoke mindprobes her, she compares his mind to the mirror cave in Luke's island.

It's not so different from Palpatine and Anakin really, only more direct and effective, more insidious...and 'natural'. That's related to Snoke's 'ideology' in the comics, some kind of twisted inversion of Yoda's luminous creed, and his weird 'you were unbalanced' to Kylo.

Again, with humans (=with people Palpatine had not made) it was a different thing, and Palpatine had to resort to indirect methods. That's him pushing Rey and Luke to be aggresive and kill him in order to save others. Inside Snoke's head, only Snoke pushed him - and that's what Palpatine wanted him to believe.

I mean, if you had the power to influence a person's instincts with your mind in order for him to do evil, you would choose someone with a certain kind of brain; a psycho, in short.

Or, you could build a jurassic psycho in a lab,

Spoiler: sparing no expense,

and then make him dance to your tune, or noise.

Those instincts are 'noise', and therefore faceless. They have no personality, no face, no 'tune' - just the impersonal face of the jungle.

 

Maybe a Wookepedia reference to a source? I would have to go look again.

They have kind of made a joke with this stuff. Heck Serkis even said he was told the background and Snoke suffered injury from the rebels/resistance and that he was around during the events of the OT. And now we know Snoke wasn't even created until after Palps was tossed down that shaft.

 

Seems like an inference, possibly a reasonable one.

 

What if he was made during the prequels by the kaminoans? Just so it for his dialouge in TFA novel to be true that saw the rise and fall of the empire. The Kaninoans might have been tasked with creating force sensetive clones and later the sith eternal took over and moved the snoke facility.