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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Snoke/Andy Serkis Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. Lord Exor

    Lord Exor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 1, 2019
    I'm curious--are there any sincere fans of Snoke as a character?
     
  2. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    I was until the end of TLJ. He was perhaps the most mysterious new character that was driving the plot of the sequel trilogy.

    At that point what little information existed about him pointed to him coming from the Unknown Regions, brought the Imperial Remnant under his authority, was not a Sith yet used the Force in ways Palpatine was never even shown to do, he had some history with Luke, Han and Leia such that everyone knew about him, yet TFA never really offered any concrete answers. So it was fun to speculate about.

    The in TLJ he is abruptly killed off, and I admit that’s a cool scene. But the way Rian and Pablo dismissed him and his backstory as unimportant left me disappointed that we probably weren’t going to get much in the way of backstory.

    In Pablo’s case, he compared the lack of backstory of Snoke to the lack of backstory for Palpatine in the OT, which I thought was a frustratingly weak argument since we didn’t have (but knew the existence of) episodes 1-3 by the time of ESB. But between RotJ and TFA there were no missing episodes.

    If memory serves, Andy Serkis had alluded to there being a backstory for the character at the time of TLJ that he wouldn’t discuss because of the possibility of it being explored in a different story, and Pablo had alluded to the same possibility.

    But then Abrams addresses his existence as a creation of Palpatine in the beginning of TRoS and subsequently made me lose all interest in the character.


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  3. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
  4. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Absolutely! Though I don’t know how much I’d attribute to character, since we don’t get to know him well. But the archetype is intriguing. Even with what they finally did with him (clone). But I’m most curious about what they intended to do with him as the main villain.

    And especially how they would’ve made him different from Palpatine, because that’s certainly something a distinction Abrams wanted to make. I know they ended up treating him as another Palpatine, just as they ended up making the sequels remakes of the original movies. But I really don’t think that was the original intention.

    With the mentions of the first Jedi temple and the hints at the importance of the past of the Jedi and the Sith, I think they were interested in exploring the history of these orders a bit more. And Snoke looked the part for it, ancient and nearly destroyed. He would’ve been a great character who could serve as a survival of those older times. Alas.
     
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  5. KamNale

    KamNale Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2012
    I am still a fan of Snoke. I still find him interesting and there is a lot we still don't know about (his "birth", meeting the FO, becoming the Supreme Leader, etc.) While I'd much prefer for him to a be a ancient lich, Darth Plageuis, Gallius Rax, or a crazy warlord of the Unknown Regions, I think him as a creation from Palpatine is interesting and still a unique dynamic that has some untold potential.
     
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  6. 2Cleva

    2Cleva Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    Seems pretty clear Snoke was JJ's Palpatine replacement, RJ deconstructed/trashed him as he did the rest of SW in TLJ, and TPTB brought Palpatine back late as a scramble.

    The narrative possibilities were obviously there for Snoke but that required a plan - something Dis/LFL didn't think they needed until after they were done with part 8 of a 9 part story and everything was in flames.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
  7. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018

    I think we will see Snoke differently after Bad Batch and Mandalorian is done.
     
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  8. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    Depends on how they address him (if they do). Unless LucasFilm is just going to pretend that Battlefront 2 and Aftermath didn’t happen, then Palpatine had a contingency that involved destroying his own Empire. So soon after ROTJ, I would doubt Gideon is aware of Palpatine’s survival. So any cloning projects he is trying to do, I would not think would the Sith Eternal or Palpatine. Which would open the possibility that perhaps Palpatine lied and that Snoke was not his creation, but perhaps something he was trying to replicate.


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  9. Lord Exor

    Lord Exor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 1, 2019
    There were some Imperials privy to Palpatine's plans; Pryde is one such example. And no, LFL is not going to dismiss Battlefront II and Aftermath, doubly so since they referenced Project Cinder in The Mandalorian.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
  10. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Serkis' performance as Snoke is fantastic, moreso in TLJ than in TFA simply because he gets more to do and some badass lines "And I will kill you with the cruelest stroke!" However, I am perfectly okay with Snoke being a Paplatine puppet cuz that's what Sheev does dammit.

    Now what I really want to see is somehow getting Serkis and McDiarmid to do a Snoke and Palpatine story. I know it's kind of something everyone seems to want to just forget and wipe aside but dammit they're both fantastic actors. Give me a whole Snoke/Palpatine miniseries on D+ even if the whole thing is basically just Palpatine yelling at Snoke from his Exegol coat-hanger for 8 episodes but I'd watch the hell out of that, twice.
     
  11. BlueYogurt

    BlueYogurt Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 26, 2021
    I think the Andy Serkis voiced Snoke character was simply a Disney marketing tactic, to lure fans of the Lord of the Rings films to the Star Wars sequels.
     
  12. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    In hindsight, Snoke strikes me very much as a Dooku equivalent (but even more of a puppet) and that kinda works, actually.
    I still think it would've been more interesting for him to have a connection to ancient history, though; something predating/relating to the origins of the Jedi and/or the Sith. I'd really hoped that this trilogy would somehow alter our view of the Saga, our understanding of the myth. Snoke could have been one of the keys to achieving that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2021
  13. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    A massive nothingburger of a villain. I love Andy Serkis, but man was this a waste of his talents.
     
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  14. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Sadly, I agree with the above. One of the weakest elements of TLJ
     
  15. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    In hindsight, maybe. But the reason why it works better with Dooku, in the PT, is that we know he's a puppet. We know Palpatine is secretly ordering him around. That's the story. Imagine if Palpatine/Sidious hadn't been introduced in the PT until Mustafar, lol, and then in hindsight, we'd be like "ohhhhh, he must have been controlling Dooku too". It wouldn't really work.

    While I like Snoke's ghostly appearance in TFA, I didn't like him in TLJ at all. I think they should have just filmed Andy Serkis as the character. Would have been funner to watch at least.

    Maybe Snoke could have been frozen in carbonite for 4000 years or something, and Ben-Kylo accidentally releases him and then follows him.
     
  16. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    I think Snoke is gonna end up having been a real person who was strong in the force. Existing in the empire era. he is killed or something and Palpatine recognizing his potential attempts to Clone him. The face deformity will be failing in the Cloning.

    They are gonna attempt too expand the lore of the ST in as detailed way as possible.

    And it helps sell Snoke toys if Snoke is his own character in his own right.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2021
  17. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    What if he was once a jedi who got cloned so mutch he was disfigured.
     
  18. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Unfortunately, it seems like Snoke really was an open-ended character when the trilogy began. His role as the main villain evolved from the role that originally belonged to Darth Maul. But then LFL decided to move away from the angle of having a Sith mastermind, and any backstory or depth for the role were trimmed away so that Episode VII had a very general villain whose depth could be increased by later movies. But Johnson did nothing with him and killed him off, which added to the other pressures for Episode IX's makers. So LFL then went back on their original decision and brought back the Sith angle, only this time with Darth Sidious.

    I mention this because I hadn't actually read literal confirmation of this until recently (see the Behind the Scenes thread for more info on that). I had suspected that maybe Abrams had plans for Snoke that were used for Sidious after Snoke died in TLJ, but if anything, those may have been plans that existed for Maul, as part of the "Sith storyline" that had no place with the more generic dark-side story they had set up for Snoke.

    Of course, I'm still hopeful that they can do something interesting with who Snoke ended up being. It's just disappointing, though perhaps obvious in retrospect, that all the mystery surrounding Snoke in TFA was empty of actual meaning.
     
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  19. SmokeMonster4815162342

    SmokeMonster4815162342 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2015
    For me, before TROS, I always felt like we were owed an explanation of Snoke's rise to power, because to not address it felt like totally undermining the OT and Palpatine's defeat. So, the explanation of Snoke being a created puppet does somewhat rectify that, though Palpatine's survival is another issue entirely. (to me, it'd have been a lot cooler if it was puppetted by Palpatine's spirit, who could never come back to life through cloning, so he's always looking for new host bodies, Vader, Luke, Kylo, Rey included.)

    And looking back, it kind of echoes how there was someone behind Dooku, not to mention it was sorta in keeping with the red curtain imagery in TLJ. And with Snoke's first appearance as this much much larger projection of the real thing, it's as if to say Snoke's entire purpose, his design, is to be this grand boogeyman, one that keeps everyone off the real Palpatine's scent.

    I'd love to see a short or a comic or something that shows Snoke's life from his perspective. Like, his first thoughts when he's "born", fake memories, unexplained motives, a feeling like there's someone in his mind, etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2021
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  20. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Of TFA too.
     
  21. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Quite liked his scenes in TLJ more then TFA and he was,a Joy to watch.
     
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  22. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

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    Apr 6, 2018
    Our definitions of joy must differ. ;)
     
  23. Lord Exor

    Lord Exor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 1, 2019
    I agree, he was a highlight of TLJ.
     
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  24. Wu Wei Jedi

    Wu Wei Jedi Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2021
    Until i thought he was some super ancient Dark Side entity from the Unknown Regions more powerful than Darth Sidious. The final boss of the saga.
     
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  25. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    The more I think about it, it does seem like TFA was setting up Snoke to be an ancient dark sider who had taken advantage of the destruction of the Sith to come back to the galaxy to conquer it, setting up a new generation of dark side practitioners in the process.

    I know there weren’t any specific plans, but this seems like the sort of general idea they had in mind. It’s unfortunate that TLJ went a different direction. And while I do love Snoke’s scenes in that movie and his redesign, I can’t help but wish they’d stuck with his original characterization and look.

    In TFA, he looked a lot less human in terms of his skin, which was paler and closer to being marble-white, making him seem like some kind of vampiric monster. Additionally, his scars and deformities were more extreme, giving him a weaker and more vulnerable appearance overall. This weaker appearance also fit a personality that was hinted as being less hostile and more forgiving compared to other dark siders, which would have made him potentially more three dimensional if this had been explored further. But TLJ moved away from that and made him more like Palpatine, and it also made him more abusive toward Kylo and his underlings than he’d seemed in TFA.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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