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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Snoke/Andy Serkis Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. darth_of_denmark

    darth_of_denmark Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I think TLJ doomed Episode 9 when TLJ did not setup much or bothered to explain anything of importance. Sure Episode 9 could have spent much more time on explaining Snoke and the Emperor (Personally I would have preferred that), but I have no doubt that it would have pissed off a great many people as well because the movie would have felt like "Exposition the movie" to most viewers.
    So if you want to appeal to the broadest audience with a trilogy of film, you really should have your **** in order from the get-go, but now I am starting to repeat myself.

    ps. I would gladly have watched a 4 hour nerd heaven ending of a movie since it was the end of the whole Skywalker saga, but we will never get that stuff when it has to appeal to everyone!
     
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  2. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    No way he could be Rey’s grandfather. He’s way too old and not even human.

    I agree he is not purely a puppet. I could see him being a freelance Dark Side Master on his last leg. He likes artifacts and winds up on Exegol. He meets Sidious and Vader. He’s more powerful than either, but can’t engage in a duel as the Dark Lords have Stormtoopers, and Fleet. And he also knows who they are and admires the Sith and the Galactic Empire. Sidious promises a not-long-for-this GFFA Snoke immortality for an alliance as Snoke like Thrawn knows the UR and Dark Side mysteries.

    Snoke is aware of the Contingency Plan, but dies before the First Order can really form. He and Skywalker meet
    searching for relics and he puts on his :) and can conceal his dark side. This is how the Big 3 get to know him. And he’s closer to Ben, whom he’d influenced from conception from afar. When Luke discovers Snoke’s true nature, leaving him wounded to the point he can’t recover once he’s made it back to Exegol. Palpatine orders that he be cloned. But he doesn’t allow Snoke’s clone ever to believe he had died. Snoke’s last memories of Palpatine and Vader are on the Death Star. But then, how did he escape?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  3. JeanNo

    JeanNo Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Snoke had to die so Kylo could become the real villain of the trilogy. Too bad JJ did not believe in Driver's character and added at the last minute the very weak and cheap Palpatine plot.
     
  4. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Absolutely. Palpatine out of the butt not only had fans scratching their heads but also held back Adam Drivers role, the strongest new character in the saga.

    I think JJ had a rough outline for his story or ideas following TFA. He then saw Rian had seen a different development. Disney then got the 3rd director on board, and ended up not being happy with the product. Then, with 6 months to release(wild guess) Disney calls JJ and says, "can you finish this? This is what was shot, this is whats already rendered. This is what we dont want to happen, and this is more in line with the direction we want."

    Then, on Kathys leesh, JJ having to write, direct, work around, and reshoot, all in less than half the production times of the other films.
     
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  5. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2015
    Yep they need to clarify what was actually going on. I lean to him being a full avatar for Palpatine because of things in the TLJ novel. Maybe the book when it comes out will clear things up fInally.
     
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  6. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
  7. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Maybe "the start" isn't infancy, but around the time Rey was born, since Ben started manifesting powers when stressed, and Ben was given over to Luke for Jedi training.

    If "Snoke" has been talking in Ben's head from the start of his Jedi training, rather than from birth, it can work.
     
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  8. Artorian_Stormtrooper

    Artorian_Stormtrooper Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 1, 2019
    When I saw TRoS, I giggled and said "pickled Snokes" out loud without realizing it.
     
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  9. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    I don't know, the Sith Eternal had the genetic material of both parents since they were captured on screen even, they could've created their own Rey on Exegol. Like they could not of had Palpatine's or his son's sperm and blood in a bank. The movie is annoying.
     
  10. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    The novel isn’t released until March 17th? Why do long? ROTS was like out before the movie, which was weird, and led to Dakar spoilers as it was based upon the version before the reshoots.
     
  11. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Was there two versions of the ROTS novel? I thought there was but I read here I was mistaken.

    Because in the (post movie-release) copy of the novelisation I own the turn still happens after Mace Windu arrives at Palpatine's office. Before reshoots Anakin had already turned before this.
    The novel has more in common with earlier cuts, definitely, but I don't think it was pre-reshoots based?
     
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  12. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    I was going off memory. I remember the spoiler here saying that Anakin and Palpatine are in the Chancellor’s Office when the posse arrive. There’s a storm outside and a video droid (or nowadays, drone?), who records the fight. IIRC Palpatine uses the Force to grab Anakin’s lightsaber and defeat the Jedi posse. I can’t remember if Anakin participated or not. Palpatine uses the drone’s recording to prove to the Senate the treachery of the Jedi.

    This was a spoiler posted here in 2005 before the movie IIRC.

    Is the following also in the novel? Palpatine says to Anakin in the Opera sequence, ‘The Jedi use power to gain knowledge, while the Sith use knowledge to gain power’.
     
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  13. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    That is how it was in the original cut yes.
    But my novel has the scene without Anakin there until after the other three Jedi are dead. So an extended version of the final cut.

    Mace and his posse are being recorded by a microphone in Palpatine's desk which he uses against them as evidence. He destroys the recording device before he drops the act.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The novel version:

    Palpatine shifted his weight, settling in comfortably. "Perhaps the real difference between the Jedi and the Sith is only in their orientation; a Jedi gains power through understanding, and a Sith gains understanding through power. This is the true reason the Sith have always been more powerful than the Jedi. The Jedi fear the dark side so much they cut themselves off from the most important aspect of life: passion. Of any kind. They don't even allow themselves to love."
    Except for me, Anakin thought. But then, I've never been exactly the perfect Jedi.
    "The Sith do not fear the dark side. The Sith have no fear. They embrace the whole spectrum of experience, from the heights of transcendent joy to the depths of hatred and despair. Beings have these emotions for a reason, Anakin. That is why the Sith are more powerful: they are not afraid to feel."
     
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  15. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Thanks!!! I loved that spoiler.

    But, again, IIRC, the ROTS script PDF released at the time of the film didn’t have this dialogue.

    Either

    A) It’s from an earlier draft of the film
    B) It’s Stover’s contribution

    Btw, was my memory of the Jedi Posse vs. Palpatine fight accurate?
     
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  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    In the novelization, Anakin sees Kit Fisto's lightsaber going out, from outside the building, as he's hurrying there, so when he arrives in the room, Mace is the only living member of the posse present.
     
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  17. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    Thanks!
     
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  18. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2015
    https://movieweb.com/the-rise-of-skywalker-star-destroyer-fleet-explained/

    "There is over 30 years-worth of time to go through and explore as they revived Palpatine and assembled the Final Order fleet. Plus, there's all of the stories about Snoke, who was actually Palpatine, that can be explored now too."
    -------------------

    Did they slip and tell us Palpatine was Snoke after all or are they just assuming that? I still think to that line in the TLJ novel where it says the remaining leaders before being killed knew who Snoke was but were surprised he took over. Always came off to me as they knew it was Palpatine back from the dead.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
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  19. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Snoke once told me that if you sit in a campfire you’re going to ruin your pants. And you know what? Ol’ Snokey was right. HE WAS RIGHT!!! God bless him.
     
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  20. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    No. That could be an interpretation based upon the journalist misunderstanding when Palpatine says, ‘I am Snoke!’ He also said, ‘I am the Senate!’ He also said, ‘I made Snoke!’ And didn’t Snoke say, ‘I became Snoke’.

    All of these statements are too vague. But when Snoke told Ren if he had Luke as his apprentice he’d already have the Galaxy and wouldn’t have needed Ren could mean he was Palpatine and if Luke had joined him... But didn’t Palpatine already have the Galaxy?
     
  21. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    The VD never stated that the Sith Eternal spent decades bringing Palpatine himself back. Basically it says some things to the effect that they just been working on the Final Order's ships and military following ROTJ all in their bid to return the Empire to its once glorious might and resurrect the Sith Order. The Sith Eternal have always been there during the formation of he First Order, they shadowed it with their own secret fleet building on Exegol . They committed espionage against the First Order and their Corporate allies whom were infiltrated by the Sith Eternal . They stole, or denied certain things from reaching the First Order and instead siphoned them to the Sith Fleet.

    Supposedly under Exegol's surface there are underground shipyards and launch bays. The ship's crew and general manpower of the Final Order are either partially automated or manned by the children of the cultists themselves. The Sith loyalists also used slave labor. And for whatever reason the Sith Eternal never even had an military leader. Palpatine recruits Pryde like we saw in the film, thats it. Apparently despite Snoke being Supreme Leader, very very few within the First Order were aware of the Sith Eternal's existence and nor where they tied to it.

    The Sith Order themselves have in the past plundered planets and cultures dealing with genetic sciences. So they been out seeking immortality of some kind and manipulating genetics and cloning for quite some time. The Sith Eternal members do have secrets of the Dark Side via the Sith Order but they are not Force sensitives - for that they created hyper-Force user Snoke and they had the Knights of Ren roaming around under the command of Snoke and Palpatine was somehow alive via the Sith Eternal's caretaking.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
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  22. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2015
    Well I guess he could have meant if Luke would have taken him up on his offer and killed Vader he wouldn't have lost the galaxy.
     
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  23. Panakas_Dawg

    Panakas_Dawg Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2004
    "I have been every voice you have ever heard inside your head." - Sidious in ROTS

    "I cannot be betrayed, I cannot be beaten." - Snoke in TLJ
     
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  24. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    That’s what I thought.
     
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  25. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2001
    This diverges from the most recent posts, but whatever the datails are about Snoke I think it's important to view him as a distinct character. Whatever it means for Sidious to have "made" him, he is basically the Count Dooku of the new trilogy, not the new Palpatine. I like his distictness from Palpatine. He's more cruel and direct, and his relationship with Kylo Ren is very different from the dynamic between Palpatine and Vader.
     
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