ST Snoke lied about creating the force bond

Was it ever officially stated/established that Snoke did not create the force bond between Rey and Ren? If not, what are the reasoning behind stating that Snoke was lying about creating the force bond?

 

Wookiepedia claimed that the Force bond between Rey and Kylo Ren was natural or destined. But none of the movies have openly contradicted Snoke's claim. I think this whole Force bond thing was . . . "forced", so that audiences could regard them as a natural couple. I rather throw up than acknowledge that.

 

But did it need to be officially stated? Genuinly curious. I figured it was "destined" (though I can't back up that claim,it was just what I gathered) and that Snoke lied because he was a baddie who wanted them to believe that he sat with powers greater than theirs. If someone had such a great force bond, what better way to make them think you're super extra extra powerful by saying "Yeah well I made that bond so...."

I wouldn't have put it past Snoke atleast to claim "ownership" of it, just to diminish what they had.

 

Snoke was a big phony. He lied, he is not as powerfull as he think he is.

 

There’s two different things at play. Rey and Ben have a natural Force bond, they are drawn to each other and are destined to become a dyad in the Force. But that innate connection does not necessarily evolve on its own. What Snoke did specifically, under Palpatine’s command, was to bridge their minds. He recognized that there was a bond between them and did that to exploit the bond, but neither he nor his master knew the bond’s true nature until Palpatine confronted them in Exegol.

I’m saying this based on the visual dictionary and an interview with Terrio. Both confirm that Snoke did bridge their minds, and Terrio specifically said that Palpatine may have made a mistake by having him do that.

 

I found the whole thing a bit muddled. I didn't know if Snoke was lying given that the bond obviously survived his death since it reopened before Rey slammed the Falcon door. I didn't know if the bond formed during the interrogation scene. I didn't know if the Dyad itself was the cause of the bond. I didn't know how Kylo found out about the Dyad, given that it hasn't been seen in generations.

I hope we somebody get an edition with the deleted oracle scene.

 

@Sauron_18 is right.

The force skype it's just another technique, much like the hologram thing at the end or the mindprobe. For the force skype you just need 3 FS individuals, with one of them connecting the other two, putting them in the same room.

So that was not a lie on Snoke's part. Snoke used the technique.'It was I who bridged your minds'

Their bond was already there, and the skype technique -or mindbridge- was made specially effective because of it. But Snoke didn't create it, no more than he created Luke and Leia's bond - who are able to touch hands even when one of them is just a hologram. (Kylo cant see her surroundings; maybe the mindbrige is something like the projecting/hologramming of Kylo's mind)

And Snoke never said anything about creating that kind of preexisting bond, so he didnt lie.

It's the 'success' that proves their unique bond; but the mere attempt at gathering them thorugh the force skype was something different. This is Kylo talking to Rey in the throne room (TLJ novel)

It was their bond that 'bent' the ordinary force skype technique into something unusual -and 'better' for Snoke- and not the result of the force skype itself.

Ben/Kylo and Rey couldn't attack each other during the skype and that, together with his weird behaviour (the mighty Kylo Ren calling himself 'monster'; the mighty Kylo Ren saying 'youcan't stop needing them'; the mighty Kylo Ren saying 'you are not alone', etc) and with him always moving first in that direction, and with him not lying to her, lead Rey to be less and less aggresive and more receptive to the 'bond' already existing beneath, or inside, the force skype.
Rey extending his hand had nothing to do with 'reach out with your feelings' in that first lesson; but this time that gesture expressed precisely that lesson - although Rey was too green and believed the vision that followed, and so did he. Both were wrong.

'Force bond' is less accurate than 'force skype' or 'mindbrige', a word derived from the film itself. 'Bond' is only used in TROS by Palpatine, alluding to the 'dyad', and that's its true sense.
'Force bond' applied to both the (super)natural phenomenon and to the specific technique creates confusion -or perpetuates it, since the term 'force bond' comes from that very confusion.

First, mindbridge/force skype, not force bond.
Snoke was not lying about that; that was a 'it was I who allowed the alliance to know the location of the shield generator' moment.

Second, and if we go by mindbridge/force skype, the 'reasoning' would be: yeah, but there's another mindbridge at the end, and Snoke was already dead. Who did it? The answer being: Snoke was offscreen while doing it. Who was offscreen that last time?

 

For me it was clear with Palpatines suprise about the dyad that this was something "natural" and not created by Snoke. He says that this connection does not happen often so it must be a natural thing.

Snoke was Palps puppet, his pawn. Something he used till he, the First Order and his Final Order were strong enough to conquer the Galaxy and destroy every enemy. Palps must have know everything what Snoke was doing/saying/feeling. Iam sure he would have known if Snoke and therefore Palpatine created that dyad.

 

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I found the whole thing confusing.

In the film Palps is all surprised by the Dyad (which is directly contradicted by Terrio in the documentary but that's another issue) and Palps made Snoke. So Palps would know about the bond, but is the Dyad something completely separate? I don't understand the exact relationship among bond, Skype, and Dyad.

 

This completely.

 

He knew about the bond. But he didnt know the bond was a dyad. That was the suprising thing about when he said: "Ahhh a dyad..." thats when he realized how strong, how far the bond was.

Of course he knew that they both were bond by the force from Snoke and Kylo probably too when they met firt on Exagol. But did he realize they were a dyad? Not in my opinion, not until he sucked them out of force energy and discovered the strenght of the bond.

 

I find it really hard to believe that Snoke was capable of bridging their minds when Rey was so many lightyears away in an undisclosed location. So given the seemingly natural occurrence of the Dyad in TROS I took that as confirmation of my previous belief that Snoke must have been lying. He's a bad guy, lying is what they do. I think that's less of a stretch than if he actually bridged their minds and they were also randomly a dyad and Palpatine didn't know. I think the whole thing's kind of a mess in any case though.

 

I think he could have Bridging there minds together and with his help sealed the dyad in the force. they were connected in TFA, but as strong as in TLJ and TROS.

 

The dyad, 'a power like life itself' goes back to Rey's conception, much like Luke&Leia's 'bond'. Ben and Rey seem to be 'twins in the force', as the junior novel calls them. You can have that and different parents.
It's an idea implicit in TESB, when Luke calls Leia after his duel with Vader, and she hears him. In TESB they didn't share their parents. Leia wouldn't be Luke's sister until 1981. (Maybe that's the meaning of Bespin at the end of TROS,since originally Rey and boy shared the Bespin hallway in the TFA vision)

The force bond, as I -or they- explained, was effective because of that previous condition. But in itself was like the force projection or the mindprobe. Snoke was not lying, but loving the truth, when he finally said it.

Iw you wactch the film, the mindbridge is always built in the Kylo>Rey direction; Rey never 'calls' first. Snoke had a ring with a rock from Vader's castle in it.
A 'bloodline' object seem to be a part of the technique when you are not a part of the family (Snoke's ring) or when there's a non-FS person involved (Han's dice; that is Han inside Ben. 'I'll always be with you, just like your father')

In TROS, Ben/Kylo didn't need any object when he skyped with Rey: he was already 'Vader', his own ring.
In the film you can see how, thanks to the 'dyad', Ben&Rey can interact even more closely: they fight and pass objects to each other as if they were in a force-womb of their own.That's not a mindbridge, but a bridge involving the 'crude matter' realm too (maybe they could even have switched places at the end -Rey fighting the KOR, Ben facing Palpatine)

 

Kylo and Rey together push each other to rapidly unlock and learn Force abilities. It happens on an instinctual level. Snoke my very well have bridged their minds initially. Afterwards they could make the connection themselves. It's probably something they could always do but didn't know how.

I wish the movie said Palpatine created Rey with the intention of Dyad forming with a Skywalker.

 

Well in away he did with clone son, he wanted a strong vessel to posses.

 

The force bond was a dumb, ham-handed story device utilized because writers couldn’t figure out a more natural way of having Rey interact with Kylo.

 

They way it was presented in TLJ ilked it.

 

Or they are using a concept George Lucas came up with in rough drafts of earlier Star Wars movies which kept being cut out or scaled back in the final scripts. It was finally used and enhanced along the way.

 

I don’t really care what the origins of it were. Didn’t work for me at all. Felt very forced. I accept that there may have been other more interesting ways to pull it off, but whatever those ways were, it’s not what we got in TLJ and TROS.

 

Yeah, the guy that said he couldn't be betrayed 1.4 seconds before being betrayed probably shouldn't be considered a reliable narrator.

 

Yeah, I too figured Snoke did something to link them more directly together but didn't realize how deep it went because of the dyad.

 

I don't think Snoke really knew how their bond worked. He just used their weaknesses to his advantage. Already in TFA Snoke could see that Kylo had a vested interest in Rey; even Hux complained about it. The difference though is that Snoke who trained Kylo (and yet to complete it), underestimated things when Kylo brought Rey before him. Thus the bond was stronger than he imagined it to be.

I'll add that even Kylo and Rey didn't even know how close their bond was anyway.


MJ

 

Considering the movies never really confirmed whether Snoke was lying or not, I'm not going to accept that he was. Besides, this whole Force bond story arc was garbage to me anyway. And so ham-fisted.