Lit So what did the non-Sith/Corporatist Separatists actually want?

Um, this is just from memory and spending only a few seconds on it, but...

1. The fat Neimoidian general who wanted to use an inhabited world for weapons testing and wipe them out for the fun of it

2. The bioweapon almost used against Naboo

 

The opening of Grevious is him blowing up a medical center.

Seriously, the Confederates LOVE war crimes.

Which is the benefit of Battle Droids.

 

Going by the Tarkin novel, Wilhuff was showing signs of cruelty, ultra-ruthlessness, and "impose terrifying punishment to deter others" thinking, even before the war - against pirates.

 

Authoritarian regimes naturally attract those who like authority. Also, group think and social reinforcement can turn ordinary people into ruthless fanatics.

 

Or, even, as Frank Herbert phrased it, "Power attracts the psychotics".

 

I think that's a simplistic analysis and unfair to people who have supported authoritarian regimes after having come out of periods of extreme societal unrest. It's a prejudice that can only be born from people who have lived in relatively stable and wealthy societies and have never known the horrors of a decaying and collapsing central authority.

People who have lived through lawless times with chaos on all sides tend to think authoritarian regimes are okay as well, at least at first. It's only after that a regime has settled in and has gone on for a time that people begin to have the luxury to wonder what life would be like with more freedom.


May we never have to live in interesting times ourselves and continue to have the luxury to be judgmental.

 

Perhaps-no one on this forum has lived in a truly authoritarian country-we don't know what it's like.

 

Droids don't have consciences so I mean you know they won't refuse if you order them to slaughter children, burn homes and stuff like that.

 

Fascist governments are very often the thing which cause people to turn to governments which become fascists. The nature of cyclical revolutions. The fact is, though, that there are people who are naturally attracted to the power of positions which provide power over others. It's why the army does have psychological screenings for anything which provide a lot of operational freedom and why the police also have psych tests.

Notably, both of our points are brought up in the recent propaganda book where it says the Empire deliberately recruited from the Outer Rim territories with propaganda aimed at those victimized by crime and disorder.

Not just because the message of the Empire's order appealed to them but also because they believed such individuals would enjoy being the boot rather than the neck.

 

Interesting video on why the Republic didn't just let the Separatists leave:

 

That's an interesting video. Agrees with some of my own thoughts on the topic.

Most especially, I agree that the whole "Separatists turned violent on Geonosis" thing would've been the most obvious and immediate argument the Loyalists made when it came to the legitimacy of their cause - as it makes the Separatists less "SNP voting for independence" and more "IRA blowing stuff up for independence," which no government can tolerate.

After that, I would also have expected "it doesn't represent the legitimate will of the people, it's the corporations pulling strings" to be the next strongest argument. It's got some teeth considering that at least in the old EU, the Trade Federation was canonically said to have representation instead of certain governments - a lot of outer systems allowed it to represent them in the Senate rather than getting their own representation. And "allowed" is a debatable word given the strong-arm tactics of the Federation and the extent to which those systems depended on it for trade.

Hadn't considered the exact legal niceties of the situation, though - it's interesting that the guy in the video points out that, in some real-world systems, the rule is "yes, you're allowed to secede, but not unilaterally/just-like-that" - there are procedures to be followed that the Seppies, in this context, may not have followed. I can't see procedural arguments having a lot of influence on public opinion, but these things do often get hung up on technicalities in real life.

 

*cough*Brexit*cough*

 

Remember in AOTC Dooku mentions the droid armies being used to intimidate the republic into allowing their secession. This tells me secession was illegal by law. And furthermore the use of armed violence to pursue that end likely ended any sentiment that the republic should let them go.

 

Have to keep in mind, Palpatine wanted a war. Even if secession was legal, he'd make it impossible through procedure or flat out make it illegal, either through himself as Supreme Chancellor or getting his people in the Senate, which he has plenty of, to specifically make laws about it. And then he controlled the other side, which were literally forged as an in-universe villain, and he was going to make them start a war regardless. Some worlds may have had legitimate grievances with the Republic that joined the CIS, but the whole thing was definitely a psy-op by Palpatine in order to secure his absolute control over the Republic. The CIS were just the fall guy for that.

 

The CIS wasn't an "organic" creation-meaning it wasn't forged through the natural processes of politics, but through palpatine's machinations.

 

Not true. The grievances existed. Palpatine just made sure a peaceful, diplomatic solution wouldn't be found, and that they'd be well-armed.

 

Yes grievances existed. I should have specified the form the CIS took was artificial in its nature. If the clone wars had happened without sith machinations-the CIS would have been a vastly different organization in its structure, personnel, and internal politics.

 

Without Sith machinations, its likely the Republic would've just ceased to exist. A lot of planets would've just went their own way, the central government would be powerless to stop it as they wouldn't have an army provided by Kamino, which was engineered as part of the Sith's plans. There would be no centralized secessionist movement, but there would be no need for it. The Republic would just gradually but surely, cease to function entirely.

 

Indeed I suspect the process would be more gradual but without the impetus given for the restoration of the military the republic would slowly whither away.

 

Or maybe the Republic would be much more efficient and with less corruptions, creating much less of a reason for planets to go their own way

 

Thanks, Sheev.

 

His name is Cosinga Palpatine the second, though actually he rejected his father's name and hence has no first name.

 

Republic was corrupt enough without any Sith intervention. Megacorps ran the place long before Plagueis established his influence. The Trade Federation existed since ~300 BBY, which was long before the Sith were any close to any sort of influence. The Ruusan Reformation loosened the central government so much that there was really no efficiency to be had, and with lobbying from the megacorps, it's unlikely that this would change. You'd probably end up with Cyberpunk Star Wars where Megacorps reign over various swathes of the Galaxy, and there's a small alliance of planets strong enough to resist their influence. Ironically, I could see some Imperial worlds like Eriadu, with a history of strong support for a centralized state, be a part of said 'resistance'.

 

Probably just wanted to NOT be part of the Republic anymore. More local autonomy with a less controlling central government.

I want to know if there were people in the Republic who just felt that if the Confederates did not want to be in the Republic anymore they should just be let out to start their own thing.

 

The CIS is such an interesting faction becuase the anti republic idealists and democrats were totally outnumbered and outmuscled by the conglomerates who could have cared less for their ideas and just wanted to exploit stuff and get rich.