So, what exactly needs fixing? - Regarding the JCC

Ok, now we are splitting hairs. I read the JCC everyday, and I have no clue about friendships. I don't see how mod could know everyone.

 

I think it's something of a common sense sort of thing, and that no reasonable policy should be based on moderators knowing every friendship between JC members or no jesting posts being allowed because moderators cannot know every friendship.

Neither extreme is realistic.

 

Ok, now we are splitting hairs. I read the JCC everyday, and I have no clue about friendships.

Just take a look at a few rather insulting posts by certain users in here...They're just jealous that Nashira is a mod and they're not.

 

I just wanted to throw in my .02 cents.

I have been lurking for a long time here and I can tell who is friends and when flames get out of control. I can usually keep up and figure out who talkes with who and when users change names. It shouldn't be all that hard for the mods to keep up with it. And if there are questions PM the persons involved.

 

Ok, just now looking in on this and only had a chance to glance here and there. You'll have to forgive me if I don't cover all of the different points and such.


First off, I can only really talk about things from my perspective. I don't pretend to be all knowing and realize that just like anyone, be they Admin, Mod, Ex-mod, Oldbie, Newbie, and Troll alike, I can make mistakes and will. All I can say is that I try to be as fair as I can given the situation presented before me and learn the "job" as best as I can.

I think part of the main issue is simply clarifying exactly where the boundaries are in regards to modding a forum such as the JCC. What exactly is too much (be it a poster posting the twentieth poop thread for that week or exactly how many warnings/PMs/edits do you give a person before stepping it up a notch)? In the process of answering such questions, it's natural to look at what's happened in the past, see what's going on now, and wonder if there's anyway to make things clearer for everyone to keep things going smooth for the future. No matter what position you are in, in life or online, a person would be remiss to not review their options even if it's only to find out that things are fine as they are.


Yes, in the short time that I have been a Mod, I have received complaints about double standards and such from average JCC users. Looking in threads, I have seen posts from average users noting what they see as behavior from others being allowed that they feel either shouldn't be allowed because of forum rules or that others wouldn't get away with. Things like this do make it necessary to at least take a closer look, once again, trying to be as fair as possible. Though to an extent I might be able to try to point out things that might be possible solutions, the idea of a Focus Group is a good one. See from their perspective if things need change and if so, what would need changing. You never know what you might get.


Regards to knowing the relationships of people in the JCC...come on...that's a daunting task even for me, and I know quite a few of the major players. I know, just like I'm sure many of you do, that while user X and Y might have been the closest of buds for the past two years, something could happen offboard or over PMs that'll have them flaming each other. I can't possibly know if and when that'll happen. If I see something that as a Mod I need to act on, that's what I'll have to do...whether I've known you since I registered or you're a day-one newbie. That said, I will and HAVE PMed those involved in what appears to be a dispute to see what's actually going on. Will I do that all the time...probably not. There are times where it either looks clear cut enough to an outside party that something's seriously wrong or it's simply a pure TOS violation.


As for monitoring and posting continuously in Comms...anyone that knows me knows that I'm not a fan of this forum. That's simply a fact to be taken as you will. My main purpose is to float around the JCC and keep an eye there. Doesn't mean that I won't go into Comms (obviously, I'm here now. ), but it's not my primary focus whenever I am online. Love it or hate it, that's the way it is. *shrugs*

That said, just as before I became a Mod, my PM box is always open. I do answer PMs, as those that have PMed me in the past know.

Anyway, it's night night time for me. Try not to rip me too big of a new one...especially since I'm going to probably be meeting a few of you people in the next couple weeks.


Edit: Dang, I hate making huge posts!

 

Just take a look at a few rather insulting posts by certain users in here...They're just jealous that Nashira is a mod and they're not.

That's quite the astute observation. You do realize that by calling our posts insulting you're indicting her record as well, since her record is all they contained, right? I dare you to find an insult in any of those posts.

 

I dare you to find an insult in any of those posts.


ok, let me take a glance.

Get some guts, come in here and tell us what you're really thinking, that's all anyone's asking. As it is we're left having to conclude that it's either fear of the repercussions stating your position could bring or sheer arrogance that is keeping you from posting. Either way you're looking worse by the minute.


I've gotten past actually expecting anything from JMT since she really hasn't done anything in the past year. That leaves nashira. If she is going to be an MS mod, put that in her title and get her out of the JCC.

I have a sneaking suspicion this has more to do with the jealousy of a mod or two disguised as the confrontation a real problem. Strangely, none of the mods in question have posted.


should I continue? Sounds like a flame, or baiting at least, to me.


but of course, you'll just point out my Reg date as if that means I'm not allowed an opinion.



Wow, it's astounding how much drama so few can create for such a non-reason and keep it going. face it guys, your friends who were mods are no longer mods, and we all know you are upset cause none of your own were picked this time around. Well, possibly Maulfly, she does sort of hang with y'all. But still, it's fairly obvious to anyone who posts on the JC, and in YJCC in particular, that there is this clique of users who feel they can use the YJCC as their personal playground, insulting users to impress their friends and feel better about themselves, creating useless social threads basically for themselves only ( I mean, did we really need so many "Things you didn't know about AmazingB" threads, for example?) I find it amazing, no pun intended, that this thread was started by Amazing, a former YJCC mod himself, who, suddenly decides that, even though he stepped down, the YJCC needs help his help. Where was your concern when you were a mod of that forum? Where was your concern when Katya and Lumpé were mods of that forum? Why no drama then?

Time to face the harsh reality, guys. The new mods aren't part of your group, and sadly, despite a well-managed campaign, neither Ignant nor QuiGonJim were asked to join the MS this time around, neither were any of your friends. So, now in order to do what, try to undo the recent promotions,perhaps, y'all are gathering in AIM chats maybe, planning and coordinating your postings here, in some effort to discredit Nashira, TheBiggerFish and the YJCC mods in general? The fact that GrilledSarlacc posted that one pic, and an emoticon shows how serious the Administration takes you all, and I for one think that his one pic spoke louder than 1,000 words

 

You do realize that by calling our posts insulting you're indicting her record as well, since her record is all they contained, right?

No, I'm not insulting her by saying you've insulted her. It's your opinion that she's doing a bad job as a mod, not a fact. She was picked to be a mod for a reason, and whatever that reason might be you'll have to live with it, I guess.

 

Maulfy

I have received complaints about double standards and such from average JCC users. Looking in threads, I have seen posts from average users noting what they see as behavior from others being allowed that they feel either shouldn't be allowed because of forum rules or that others wouldn't get away with.

Can you give some examples of what you are talking about in the above passage.
Is it in regards to language, spam, innuendo, baiting, flaming, etc?
It seems impossible to accept the idea that an entire new set of rules for the JCC will be produced out of the current discussion.
It seems probable that certain "problem" areas are being targeted for specific reform.
It would greatly shape the debate if you could specify what exactly is being looked at without being purposefully vague.

 

I love Star Wars.

 

It's your opinion that she's doing a bad job as a mod, not a fact.

LoyalJedi - No, he wasn't expression an opinion, he was merely stating the facts as to how many posts she has made in the JCC since her promotion. Any interpretation of that is up to the individual user.

Skateboard_Jedi - yes you are a relatively new user, but as you rightly say that does entitle you to an opinion. However, there is a lengthy history here that I don't think you can understand because you weren't around when it all happened. There a complex collection of interactions that go years back which would help in understanding the current situation.

should I continue? Sounds like a flame, or baiting at least, to me.

If they were, then they would have been edited out, hence they are not. You have to understand that Comms isn't a happy playground where everyone gets along, the point of this forum is to voice concerns and be blunt in your point of view.

how much drama so few can create for such a non-reason and keep it going

they are saying they are going to change the rules of our favourite forum, without any reason, and without telling us exactly what they are going to change.

there is this clique of users who feel they can use the YJCC as their personal playground

There are several cliques which use the JCC as their personal playground. Some cliques just do it better than others.

I mean, did we really need so many "Things you didn't know about AmazingB" threads, for example?) I find it amazing, no pun intended, that this thread was started by Amazing

Funny, I thought that Ignant started them.

Amazing, a former YJCC mod himself, who, suddenly decides that, even though he stepped down, the YJCC needs help his help. Where was your concern when you were a mod of that forum? Where was your concern when Katya and Lumpé were mods of that forum? Why no drama then?

Have you actually read this thread ? The threat of reform occured after B stepped down, and after Katya and Lumpe stepped down. I think B is certainly correct in bringing this possible reform (and lack of reasoning) to Comms.

despite a well-managed campaign, neither Ignant nor QuiGonJim were asked to join the MS this time around

I really don't think they actually want to be mods - what gives you that idea ?

in some effort to discredit Nashira

I think she does a pretty reasonable job by herself.

The fact that GrilledSarlacc posted that one pic, and an emoticon shows how serious the Administration takes you all

Yes, it highlights how seriously the administration takes the genuine concerns of regular users. If you read the thread you'll realise that GS is being dealt with.

Skateboard_Jedi - I really think you are missing the point of this thread. Its not about people bitching about who are, and who are not mods. It is about these reforms that might be thrown upon us, and that people who do not frequent the forum are incharge of deciding these reforms.

Oh, and a final point - your suggestion of co-ordinated trolling through AIM chats is laughable at best, an out and out flame at worst. If you understand the history of the JCC you'd understand why.

 

If you read the thread you'll realise that GS is being dealt with.


Who exactly is dealing with GS?
He's the boss, the worst that can happen is that Josh will tell him not to show such obvious desdain for the users.

 

*Drive-by post*
Not as purposefully vague as you give me credit for.

Is it in regards to language, spam, innuendo, baiting, flaming, etc?
LOL...You kidding? I get complaints about all of that. Specifically, once again only able to talk from my experience, from what I remember those that I've gotten over PM more specific to this matter tend to be in regards mostly to language (to some extent), spam, baiting/flaming (and that's in no particular order). Stuff that I see in the threads themselves, and that's something anyone can see, IIRC usually gravitates mostly to spam and baiting/flaming...course, posting such things technically in and of itself is spam, too.

It seems impossible to accept the idea that an entire new set of rules for the JCC will be produced out of the current discussion.
It seems probable that certain "problem" areas are being targeted for specific reform.
I don't necessarily see an entire new set of rules being produced. More like looking at what's already there, examining how it's been handled in the past (and how effective that's been), and then...if deamed necessary...more evenly moderating a forum based on the rules that most people who have been on the JC for any amount of time know exists. So as you say, it's more on the order of looking at where there may be problem areas and working to do a better, and more consistant, job of moderating it.

 

Just to clarify-

the point of this forum is to voice concerns and be blunt in your point of view.

Blunt? I think the word you are looking for is respectful.

they are saying they are going to change the rules of our favourite forum, without any reason, and without telling us exactly what they are going to change.

Yes, some things may be changed. Reasons will be given and input from the forum will be sought, before anything is decided. This has been said several times. Why do you ignore it?

in some effort to discredit Nashira

I think she does a pretty reasonable job by herself.

Nashira has been on the job a few weeks and is doing a fine. I suggest you give her some space and check back in a few months. It?s starting to look like an obsession.

 

Who exactly is dealing with GS? He's the boss

but that doesn't mean he's above being repremanded.

 

G-S was simply reminding everyone that we are all arguing about something on a Star Wars messageboard. Lighten up.

 

Some people enjoy it here and take it seriously. If your attitude is that this is just a Star Wars message board, then I don't think you should be a moderator.

 

I don't know, I think it's the perfect attitude actually. It balances out against those who take this place, and the e-power bestowed upon them, way too seriously.

 

I haven't posted in JCC much lately mainly because of the fact that it seems a certain group of users can go into any thread and hijack it without punishment from the mods. Maybe that's changed in the last two weeks, I have no idea, because I've been busy at another site I like better. But that's beside the point.

Personally, I would love to go into the JCC forum and relax and have fun posting, but that seems to be a thing of the past. Maybe I just never noticed it before, but there are a ton of cliques in there now, and some of them are not leaving a positive influence at all. I'm glad that people can find friends and groups to be a part of, but at the same time it can be annoying when these groups, or members of these groups, do not want to be a positive influence on the community.

Quite honestly, I think one of the other problems is the amount of "one word response" threads in the forum. All they do is serve to up a user's post count, and require little though. JCC is meant to relax and have fun, right? Well, I'm sure people get enjoyment out of those type threads, but at the same time, many users just use them when they want a few quick posts to raise their post count. I feel bad that I started "The BAND Name Game!" last summer, because it led to a trend of several more "Name Game" threads, which started taking over the forum. IIRC, a limit was placed on them.

But users will always find new ways to have threads like that. All of these "game threads" and things of the sort are just taking over the forum. I think that JCC should be for socializing, obviously. Threads such as that aren't really socializing, they're just post count raisers that start to take over the first page of the forum.

Similarly, threads like "The Flirt Thread" have been taken over by a small amount of users, and if you're not in that small group, you'll be ignored. Or such was the case last time I posted in there, many months ago. It was more a test of reaction than anything, to see if threads like that would ignore people who aren't in that small group. I was right.

The "friendliness level" of the JCC has dropped significantly since when I was a n00b, at least in my opinion. I no longer feel interested in posting in the forum because of that, along with the game issue.

I think one of the best ways to settle this is to have another reform discussion in JCC. How many JCC regulars hang out in Comms, or stop by long enough to see such a thread as this? Not a ton. You'll get a much wider variety of responses and ideas by asking for them in JCC. The last actual reform seemed to work pretty well by those methods. I think another one is in order, honestly.

It doesn't mean the results will be to my liking, but at least the whole JCC will be able to respond instead of just those who have seen this thread in Comms.

 

Time to face the harsh reality, guys. The new mods aren't part of your group, and sadly, despite a well-managed campaign, neither Ignant nor QuiGonJim were asked to join the MS this time around, neither were any of your friends.

Well-managed campaign? Kiddo, you just disqualified yourself right there. Neither Ignant nor I have any illusions about being moderators, heck, I'd turn them down if asked. That does not mean I'm not going to come in here and voice my opinion when someone as blatantly underqualified as nashira is made a moderator. Has nothing to do with who's a part of what clicque. That's not appropriate.

find it amazing, no pun intended, that this thread was started by Amazing, a former YJCC mod himself, who, suddenly decides that, even though he stepped down, the YJCC needs help his help.

AmazingB has more to do with the JCC being at least marginally entertaining again than anyone. I think he is well within his rights to challenge the same moderators that were AWOL while he was a mod to keep them from trying to screw the place up again like they did a year and a half ago.


but of course, you'll just point out my Reg date as if that means I'm not allowed an opinion.

You are absolutely entitled to to your opinion, as wrong as it may be. Don't bait or flame.

should I continue? Sounds like a flame, or baiting at least, to me.

In order, that was a challenge, an ultimatum combined with a fact about another mod, and a true statement, though I didn't fell like coming out and saying exactly what I know.

So, now in order to do what, try to undo the recent promotions,perhaps, y'all are gathering in AIM chats maybe, planning and coordinating your postings here, in some effort to discredit Nashira, TheBiggerFish and the YJCC mods in general? The fact that GrilledSarlacc posted that one pic, and an emoticon shows how serious the Administration takes you all, and I for one think that his one pic spoke louder than 1,000 words

I don't know how you do it, but I don't need help with my posts, and don't speak to my friends about them until I've posted them. Maybe others do, I know that I don't.

Also, to discredit someone, that implies that they were due some credit in the first place. TBF (who I don't know from Adam) and Maulfly (who I haven't talked to in months, thank you) have done well from what I have seen, and both have good histories in the JCC. I like Bria, but I think she knows as well as anyone that I don't feel the JCC is the best fit for her. JMT, well, if she were actually ever around anywhere, maybe she might make at least a passable mod, but as is she'd rather play politics in the MS and randomly ban or lock a thread in the JCC every week or so. nashira rarely posted outside the social threads before she was made a moderator. Now, maybe she does read every single post, but there is no way for anyone to know that unless they're watching her monitor over her shoulder. Without solid proof (posts) that she has any idea what is going on in the forum, why on earth would she be made a moderator? Because she seems nice? Because she's a model poster over at the DL's board? We have no way of knowing, and to date her judgement has been questionable at best.

Given that, you decide who's deserving of credit and who is not then tell me who I'm trying to discredit.

As for GS's posts, sure he's a nice guy and didn't delete my favorite icon, but that was the most ludicrous promotion for head admin I could imagine, though I assume there wasn't place for much of a discussion on it.

Now before you try to say that this is not on-topic for this thread, who is moderating the JCC is at the heart of this issue. One of them brought it up in the MS and their inactivity in this thread perpetuated it. Who is modding the JCC has everything to do with which reforms are enacted and which are ignored, so I think knowing exactly who they are is important to the discussion.

 

your friends who were mods are no longer mods, and we all know you are upset cause none of your own were picked this time around. Well, possibly Maulfly, she does sort of hang with y'all. But still, it's fairly obvious to anyone who posts on the JC, and in YJCC in particular, that there is this clique of users who feel they can use the YJCC as their personal playground, insulting users to impress their friends and feel better about themselves, creating useless social threads basically for themselves only

AmazingB and Dagsy stepped down by themself and weren't demoted. They weren't in love with their moderator status, if they were, they wouldn't have stepped down. Can you provide examples of double standards for the.. uh.. clique of the JC exhibited by the 'clique' mods?


Time to face the harsh reality, guys. The new mods aren't part of your group
Thankfully not.

and sadly, despite a well-managed campaign, neither Ignant nor QuiGonJim were asked to join the MS this time around, neither were any of your friends.
Nor would they accept if they were invited.

malkie pretty much blew up everything else you said.

 

I'm locking this down for now. It's gone from discussing possible changes in the JCC to discussing specific moderators' habits (both past and present). This discussion will either continue as a Focus Group, or as a more detailed discussion thread in the JCC (to be started by a mod). For now, the discussion here in Comms is over.

Kimball Kinnison