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Senate Going Postal: The 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

Discussion in 'Community' started by Point Given , Nov 9, 2018.

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  1. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    I understand and agree that Rogan has professed many bigoted statements/beliefs and hosted bigots on his show. For the people who are genuinely hurt by him, I am entirely sympathetic and I would like him to improve as well. All I can say is that politics is a messy process, and sometimes you have to make deals with people on the wrong side of an issue, within reason. I think Bernie’s campaign has made an appropriate, cynical calculation here that will pay off with real benefits at the ballot box, both in earning votes for their candidate and denying votes to others.

    However, from what I’ve seen online, the most vocal critics of this decision are just MSM and party enforcers who see this purely in terms of power. Rogan represents the ultimate form of internet based alternative media, a direct competitor to the legacy media that they are fighting to maintain control over. They didn’t care one bit when Hillary went on Howard Stern, or when she campaigned with artists who had long documented histories of homophobic language. This episode has little to do with ideology and more to do with maintenance of power.

    And to that end, I’m a bit giddy to see how far the Warren people in particular take this thing, because their tendency to escalate confrontations beyond their ability to disengage is obvious at this point. If her surrogates keep up these attacks then eventually it boils down to Rogan’s claim that she requested to be on the show but was turned down. Who is telling the truth here? Does Rogan have the receipts? Imagine if the Warren campaign corners themselves into some pseudo-denial like with the dinner/meeting episode and then Rogan comes at them with evidence they are spinning it. Hey, stranger things have happened.
     
  2. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Yeah, and how could Warren's people possibly spin this? "Yeah, sure, she wanted to go on this horrible Nazi bigot's show, but she would never have accepted his endorsement!"
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  3. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016



    Daily reminder that Clinton is legit a war criminal, friends with pedophiles and war criminals, and her opinion is empty and unimportant. Centrists don't get to play purity politics cause they all not wanting to hang out with mass murderers purity tests, but a jack*** podcaster endorsing you? that is immoral and must be denounced

    Again, liberals will kill us all
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  4. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    I don’t know why anyone cares about endorsements, they’re appeal to authority fallacies. The candidates are who they are, regardless of who endorses them.
     
    Darth_Duck likes this.
  5. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Lol at @CT-867-5309 for suddenly discovering that voters do not choose their candidate rationally.
     
    vncredleader likes this.
  6. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Always beware people who were never going to support you to begin with concern trolling you with "advice." That's what Neera Tanden is doing.
     
  7. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Live your life in a way that would make Nerra Tanden say "concerns have been raised"
     
  8. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    I'm glad that my only exposure to Twitter is filtered through other sources.
     
    tom, Pensivia, 3sm1r and 2 others like this.
  9. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    It's funny how it's only Bernie Sanders who has to answer for things like bad endorsements. Warren and Klobachar don't have to answer for the NYT having right wingers on their staff. Libs don't care about that.
     
  10. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    1. Erm, I think the complaint is that he made an ad to brag about the endorsement.
    1b. Which makes "no one cares about endorsements" a really odd defense
    2. Yes, the other candidates all associate with who people are, albeit in different ways, also bad or worse, one of the central elements of Bernie's appeal is that he didn't do those things
    3. Yes, Clintonites and others will cynically complain about this. But just because people who dislike you raise a criticism, that doesn't make it automatically wrong

    Joe Rogan is an awful person. I don't quite see how the campaign could be associated with him but not Cenk Uygur.
     
  11. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Oh for **** sake. This is the kind of ridiculous BSs that drive me crazy every day. Joe Rogan is an influential person with millions of followers who happens to have some good and some awful takes, like most of the other human beings. What he said about Bernie in the video is true -nobody is disputing it- and it is well explained, therefore the campaign decided to share the video. In a normal world, this would be the end of the story. But today everybody needs to have strong opinions about everything, nothing can ever be neutral or indifferent, therefore, of course, there is the need to spend the whole day talking about it, so that people can feel better about themselves by screaming their indignation for the least consequential event of the week.
     
  12. appleseed

    appleseed Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Endorsements don't matter. Nobody's voting for someone because Joe Rogan, Hulk Hogan, the NYT, Rush Limbaugh or Captain Kangaroo tells them to, and if they do, they're a gullible and easily swayed idiot.

    On second thought, America is full of gullible and easily swayed idiots....
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  13. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I wouldn't describe what he does as "some good takes and some awful takes."

    Many people offer good, succinct explanations of Bernie's appeal. Many people have done so on national media platforms. They made an ad about this one instead of all those alternatives because, as you said, he is "influential and has millions of followers." You never really escape the logic that Sanders is associating himself much more closely than he ever would otherwise in spite of some of Rogan's views, solely because this person is a powerful media figure. The Sanders movement spent a lot of time otherwise denouncing that kind of behavior.
     
  14. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Guys, ignore the Wockster. It doesn't matter what he thinks. He was never going to vote for Sanders this election and there's no reason to listen to what he has to say about this. This is yet another non-issue that the media is trying to blow up to stall Sanders because he's looking like he's going to do well in the early primaries. This is concern trolling.
     
  15. appleseed

    appleseed Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2002
    The reason I think Bernie is the only one with a shot is because the idiot undecided voters vote on personality more than policy and Bernie has that grouchy old man charisma while Trump is just a you-know-what.
     
  16. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Honestly we could all learn a lot about concern-trolling and disingenuity of liberalism from that reply. They didn't make an ad even, they made a twitter vid on some clips, which they have done with other support and promoted all kinds of endorsements. Like did ya not catch any of the times they have boosted Doctor West's endorsement? Sanders is not even closely associating himself with Rogan, freaking Warren wanted desperately to be on the podcast as well btw, Bernie's campaign is making a point about how they have even won over some important voices to boost their method.

    Ya liberals cry about how Bernie is to niche and then when he isn't suddenly it is wrong. We get it, you are clearly an antisemitism, just admit it. Oh that's slanderous and unfair? Well ya know....I don't wanna keep talking about this cause we are friends.

    and to be clear, no clearly that is not antisemitic, but my point is we can play the liberal game to but we CHOOSE not.
     
  17. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Campaigns are about convincing other people to vote for you.
    If you manage to convince right wingers, it's definitely an achievement that deserves to be advertised.

    Concern trolls should stfu. I have no patience for this crap.
     
  18. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Abadacus, Rew and Glitterstimm like this.
  19. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Uyghur has repeatedly said that he specifically asked Sanders to withdraw his endorsement because he didn't want it to be a distraction. He's now rejecting all endorsements for his campaign.
     
  20. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    The backlash over Uygur was also absolutely exaggerated. He is a normal person. They portrayed him like God knows what kind of monster.
     
    vncredleader and Glitterstimm like this.
  21. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Sure, and Sanders has done it in the past. But those past attempts are better than this one. If he was going to highlight this, he could have done a better job framing it. The current tweet doesn't give you any hint about Rogan and the degree to which Sanders agrees or disagrees with his broader agenda.

    Was not aware he asked for the retraction. But yes, 3Smear, I agree that was entirely overblown, especially by way of comparison.

    I think we could learn a lot more about your logic.

    1. Is it really a substantive point to distinguish an "ad" from a "twitter vid on some clips" in the 2020 campaign? Both are official products of the campaign. Both are released on the major platform for voter outreach. My complaint is that it promotes Rogan. That's true regardless of what you call this.

    2. No, I haven't missed them. I just have either A) not cared or B) been happy about it. I generally like Cornel West and his views, so I took those videos as positive. They were associating with Sanders with someone who was making thoughtful contributions to the social dialogue. Joe Rogan is negative, and so the same style of video associates Sanders with someone harming the social dialogue. How is that inconsistent? How is this topic even relevant to our discussion? People--let alone massive campaigns--can do both good things and bad things. The fact that he did something I like doesn't make it impossible that I later dislike something that happened.

    3. I think there's a difference between going on a show and making promotional videos from it. I appreciated Sanders trying to do outreach with Fox News townhalls. I also don't mind him going on Joe Rogan's podcast one or several times. There are many people out there that wouldn't be exposed to his message otherwise that really should hear it.

    By contrast, posting promotional videos on your Twitter feed isn't really so much aimed at outsiders. The primary consumers are going to be people who already support you. Why do they need to hear from Joe Rogan? Not even Sanders speaking on the Rogan show, by the way--which I would also understand--but just Joe Rogan himself? I think that is giving the guy a kind of credibility I would not.

    I'd happily vote for Sanders in the primary, as I did in 2016. Glitterstim one of his biggest advocates on this site, called it a "cynical calculation" while noting she "sympathized" with those affected by Rogan's bigotry. Are her thoughts meaningless? You can like someone without cheerleading everything they ever do, Vivec.
     
  22. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    I mean, if endorsements are meaningless then we shouldn't care who AOC and the Squad endorse on one side and David Duke on the other.
     
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  23. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    So you're saying AOC and David Duke are basically the same.




















    :p
     
  24. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    Nothing matters. Unless Bernie does it, then it is good, because Bernie is good.

    Sent from my SM-G390W using Tapatalk
     
  25. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    A good point I heard that is if you can the endorsement of someone like Rogan without changing your platform to accommodate his bigotry, that's a good thing. While he has white nationalists and various types of bigots on his show, as far as I know (I have only seen a few episodes) the bigotry Rogan himself tends to display is transphobia. Sanders supports trans people and he didn't change his policy proposals. No endorsement is going to come from a perfect person or institution. The NYT cheers for every war the U.S. has prosecuted and employs openly white supremacist trash like Brett Stephens. Why isn't liberal Twitter calling for Warren and Klobuchar to reject their lame endorsement?

    The answer is obvious. This is all in bad faith.
     
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