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Rogue One [Speculation] Rogue One: Several major retcons coming our way?

Discussion in 'Anthology' started by Lt. Hija, Dec 9, 2015.

  1. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    As most of you have heard the Lucasfilm Story Group has the task of weaving all new Star Wars productions into a coherent "new canon". As the inevitable consequence, premises presented and laid out in the animated Rebels TV series will most likely also reflect in Rogue One and that has been causing me considerable headaches for some time.

    I'm trying to compile a list of retroactive continuity changes which we therefore have to anticipate, please feel free to share items you think might be worthy of concern.

    Watching the recent Rebels Recon: Inside “Wings of the Master” program, this is how Pablo Hidalgo from the Lucasfilm Story Group rationalized why already in Rebels we see designs originally not introduced prior to Return of the Jedi, i.e. the A- and B-wing fighter:

    “The rebellion that we see in [Star Wars - A New Hope] - we’re just hanging out with General Dodonna’s group – they don’t have those ships. By the time we get to Return of the Jedi we’ve assembled the rebellion, the Rebel fleet all in one place to strike against the Death Star. So the groups that have the A-Wings and the B-Wings and the ships we haven’t seen before bring those to the table.”

    Rebels Retcon # 1 - The Rebel base on Yavin IV is no longer the central base and backbone of the Rebel Alliance but merely the military operations base of a Rebel "cell"

    It then looks as if George Lucas was misleading us, Tarkin and Vader had delusions of grandure (seriously believing they would end the Rebellion "with one swift stroke" by destroying the Rebels' hidden fortress on Yavin IV), and Leia was such a fanatic that she was rather willing to sacrifice the lives of millions of her fellow Alderaanians than one Rebel cell.

    Rebels Retcon # 2 - General Willard is no longer "commander (-in-chief) of the Rebel Forces", and chances that we see General Taggi as the "commander (-in-chief) of the Imperial Starfleet in Rogue One become increasingly slim

    When I first heard that the Lucasfilm Story Group would re-examine canon, I was obviously too naive seriously assuming that they'd use the opportunity to examine the original OT screenplays, the Lucas Notes from 1977 and the radio dramas to see which important aspects the original EU creators (i.e. West End Games) might have overlooked or ignored.

    According to the ANH screenplay "General Willard" (ANH cast credit) was "the commander of the Rebel Forces" (and as such he was scheduled to re-appear in Leigh Brackett's first draft for ESB), but since he wasn't mentioned by Mr. Hidalgo, I don't expect him to show up in Rogue One.

    All the talk about Governor Tarkin making a possible comeback as a CGI character doesn't remotely mention a CGI or look-alike comeback of a character that should be playing the commander of the Imperial Starfleet, i.e. "General Taggi" (ANH cast credit).

    Motti to Taggi in the Death Star conference scene: "Dangerous to your starfleet, commander, not to this battle station."

    Rebels Retcon # 3 - Imperial rank plaques always looked like those in The Empire Strikes Back

    Now, Rebels takes place before the time period of ANH and I would have thought that the rank plaques would look accordingly. But the character of Admiral Konstatine in the first season of Rebels
    did not wear the single line rank badge with 6 colored elements as Admiral Motti did in ANH, but already the one displayed by Ozzel and Piett with 12 colored elements.

    Rebels Retcon # 5 - Imperial Star Destroyer bridges always featured a bridge balcony like the Avenger and the Executor

    While the bridge of the Devastator seen briefly in ANH obviously featured a large viewscreen (either to the front or the sides) none of the Devastator-type Star Destroyers seen thus far in Rebels acknowledged this, yet.

    In general I think it's doubtful that the design style in Rogue One will closely follow the design style in ANH. I believe that the recent Verizon commercial actually used a set from Rogue One and the design style displayed there (i.e. the control booth and the Star Destroyer control deck alcove windows) is 85% ESB and 15% ROJ but 0% ANH.

    Rebels Retcon # 6 - The Death Star's superweapon no longer uses exotic matter particle streams but essentially big lightsaber blades

    On the subject of Kyber crystals Pablo Hidalgo hinted in one of the Rebels Recon programs that these also are an essential part of the Death Star's superweapon. Despite the fact that this new concept erases the accurately researched one by Dr. David West Reynolds and astrophysicist Dr. Curtis Saxton featured in Original Trilogy Cross-Sections, it now tells us essentially that just by sticking a lightsaber injection needle into a pumpkin (to illustrate just how tiny the Death Star is next to an Earth size planet) will make the pumpkin explode.

    I can only hope that Rogue One stays clear of such science fantasy technobabble.
     
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  2. Don-Juan-Qui-Xote

    Don-Juan-Qui-Xote Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Those seem like issues with the Rebels cartoon that hopefully don't necessarily impact R1

    I haven't watched the cartoons, so other than what you point out I don't know what in the cartoon flies in the face of established movie canon or not?

    If true the biggest issue in the cartoon seems to be as you correctly point out - "Yavin IV is no longer [at the time] the central base and backbone of the Rebel Alliance"
    This seems to fly in the face of movie cannon, and the importance of Leia's mission there, and as you indicate, Tarkin and Vader's dialogue.
    The R1 movie as per the cast image seems to be putting the emphasis back on Yavin though, so I'm not to worried about that.
    And if it's in a different temple or planet, lets say on Dantoine, this wouldn't contradict ANH, that establishes they do move around.

    As far as several known Generals, pilots, and other Rebels who appear on Yavin not being recast, or recreated in CG for R1? I think this can be easily explained, be it on Yavin, Dantoine, or another as yet named previous secret base, the R1 movie mission focuses primarily on a different group, the "Spies" of the secret mission, rather than the "Pilots" who later deliver the full frontal attack, so it would follow that it be a different group of commanders in charge of their mission, who are the focus in the R1 the film.
    This separate spy mission does not deny the presence or importance of the what we see in ANH.

    I'm more concerned with what someone else who pointed out, in Rebels they establish several supposed "victories" against the Empire. To what extent these are victories I can't say , again haven't watched the cartoons, but if they fly in the face of movie canon, again I'd rather the movies just ignore the cartoon.

    The opening ANH crawl which establishes the setting of R1
    • It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire.
      During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR,
    Clearly describes the Rebels first victory, and it is "during this battle" that the spies manage to steel the DS plans.

    So on top of what you describe, if the cartoon already contradicts the ANH crawl and this is not their "first victory", I'd rather R1 just ignore the cartoon, over the first line of Star Wars.
     
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  3. redxavier

    redxavier Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2003
    I'm most concerned that they'll retcon the Star Wars Radio Drama. I always liked the scene where Leia and Antilles are on the bridge of the Tantive IV, feigning mechanical problems in a restricted sector so that they can download the plans.
     
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  4. Avnar

    Avnar Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Maybe Tarkin and Vader just don't know about other Rebel locations...? I just watch the films, so the "canon" doesn't bother me unless it contradicts those.
     
  5. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Admittedly, Tarkin and Vader could be in the dark, but apparently not Leia. She's deliberately lying to Tarkin about Dantooine and she must be aware that as soon as Tarkin finds out she lied, he might destroy Alderaan just because of her lie.

    Thus it would have been wiser for her to provide Tarkin with the location of Yavin IV, i.e. sacrifice one cell so that the remaining body of the Alliance and Alderaan can survive (she couldn't know that Tarkin would destroy Alderaan any way).

    The fact that she did not can only be owed to the fact, that had the Death Star destroyed the Rebel base on Yavin IV it would have meant the end of the Rebel Alliance and the Rebellion against the Empire as a whole.

    Simply put: Rather than to sacrifice the Alliance, she was rather willing to sacrifice Alderaan.

    Don-Juan-Qui-Xote
    Yes, the opening crawl clearly suggests that the battle during which the Death Star plans were stolen, was the first victory of the Rebel Alliance.

    According to Threepio in the Lars Homestead garage they had been to many battles, but obviously only this particular one constituted a victory. So I believe we can or should add

    Rebels Retcon # 7 - Although Rebel spaceships did not win a victory against the Empire before the battle during which the Death Star plans were stolen, Rebels suggests otherwise
     
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  6. Jonipoon

    Jonipoon Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 22, 2014
    While I dont consider those examples major retcons, I do believe that Disney will indeed try to "ESB-ize" all their Star Wars products. They are very well aware of the fact that ESB is the biggest fan favorite, and as GL have already said Disney's strategy is to give the fans "what they want".
     
  7. Strongbow

    Strongbow Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2014


    Retcon 1: I never found it credible that Yavin IV represented the entirety of the Rebels cause. If they did, then they are hardly a threat on a galatic scale! A few dozen fighters? Hell, that's less than what a single Star Destroyer can field. This base had to reflect a command center, or central cell. Heck, they didn't even have a star sleet there. I mean, if they did, why not evacuate? Also, it wouldn;t have mattered if Leia gave up the base on Yavin IV. Tarkin would have popped Alderaan anyway.

    Retcon 2: Not necessarily retcons IMO. Willoiard was the commander of the rebel forces on Yavin IV, not the commander-in-chief. Tagge was the commander of the Star Fleet based on the Death Star, not the entire Empire.

    Retcon 3: Yeah, that actually bothers me a tad. But the rank badges of ANH seem so freakin' random. As a costumer, it's kind of annoying, but NOT as annoying as every officer in ROTJ having the SAME rank badge! Argh!!! One "explaination" I've heard is that Tarkin established special rank badges for those assigned to the Death Star or its Star Fleet to identify them as "elite." Okay, if I squint, it works for me! ;)

    Retcon 5: Never thought of that as the bridge. I always thought that was a fire control station.

    Retcon 6: The Death Star was ALWAYS a matter of handwavium. But the fact that the death star uses kyber crystals for it's super-weapon does NOT mean that it is creating a lightsaber blade. It is still used to focus energy. The lightsaber uses that energy in one way, and the Death Star in another. Fairly easy to get around that one. Are Kyber crystals featured in Rogue One? Haven't been following too closely yet.




    Lucasfilm did a crappy job with costume continuity in the OT. They may be trying to clean it up somehow.
     
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  8. DaddlerTheDalek

    DaddlerTheDalek Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 31, 2014
    I think the Death Star plans theft in Rogue One is the first victory of the unified Rebel Alliance in the Galactic Civil War. In SW: Rebels the great war hasn't really started yet, and the Rebels are just a loose Network.
     
  9. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    With all respect, but it's irrelevant whether you found it credible or not. It's what George Lucas based the tension and the drama on and what he conveyed to audiences through explicit statements by the lead characters: if the Death Star destroys Yavin IV that's the end of the Rebel Alliance, it's the one thing in ANH Vader is obsessed with.

    The 30 ships we saw at Yavin IV were not the bulk of the Rebel starfighters. Upon Luke's return three other unknown pilots have returned as well (to greet him) and during the medal ceremony we see dozens if not hundreds of Rebel pilots (it seems neither Feloni and/or Hidalgo acknowledged this particular detail helping them to rationalize their early A- and B-wing fighters). If you want to believe this retcon cell theory is applicable to ANH then all the pilots from the other cells just congregated at Yavin IV for a ceremony?

    Just because we never saw transport ships, ammunition depots and other supplies the Alliance needed to continue the rebellion doesn't mean these weren't at Yavin IV. And the point remains that Leia did not know that Tarkin would destroy Alderaan anyway, but she would have rather sacrificed her planet than Yavin IV, which just illustrates how important the Rebel base was to the cause as a whole.

    The screenplay didn't say "commander of the base" but "commander of the Rebel forces" which doesn't leave a lot of room for alternate interpretations, IMHO, add to this he was scheduled to reappear as that commander in ESB. And since Taggi is commander of the "starfleet" this is obviously not limited to a "fleet" or squadron stationed at the Death Star. The term "starfleet" is used in the OT for all ships, smaller units are "fleets" as indicated by the Rebel controller in ESB: "There's a fleet of Star Destroyers coming out of hyperspace".

    They are not "freakin' random" if you'd gave them a thorough analysis, but fact remains that also the crew of the Devastator wore rank badges with 4 or 6 elements (e.g. Commander Praji). It's the rank badge system during the ANH period and just to ignore it would be a grave continuity error and/or constitute disrespect for the designs in ANH by John Mollo.

    Screenplay identifies it as bridge with a viewscreen with the "captain" and myself as the "chief pilot".

    The novelization "by" George Lucas explicitly states that the superweapon effect will be mass-[to-]energy conversion. Only antimatter (or exotic hypermatter) will provide that effect once it comes in contact with normal matter. The visible string of exotic matter pockets lined up like pearls on a string in the firing shaft is an obvious indicator for a particle stream but not an energy beam. Frankly, I hope that just as in the original film Rogue One will stay clear of any unnecessary technobabble. Lucasfilm published a well researched concept in one of their books by one of their own. Before tossing this one out of the window, they should have consulted with somebody who knows the difference between "science fiction" and "fantasy", IMHO.
     
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  10. Don-Juan-Qui-Xote

    Don-Juan-Qui-Xote Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Exactly, just because we don't see it used, doesn't mean it wasn't there. In fact that they don't use it, despite having it , is what the story hinges on.

    The 30 intentionally small ships we do see, aren't because that's all they have, they are implicitly used because that is their chosen line of offence.
    Thanks to the plans Leia delivers.
    That's the whole point of her accomplishment of getting the stolen plans there.
    It's upon receiving the plans they realize that all that will work, is their small snub fighter squadron, hence they assemble the small group.
    This "choice" to desperately use small one man fighters instead of the obvious large scale attack the DS would be prepared for, is what the final plot and tension of the film hinges on.
    You can't just ignore or toss that out.
    The implication is the Death Star's defences are based on and expecting a large scale assault. Hence Tarkin's confidence in their impenetrable defences.
    The Rebels now thanks to the plans delivered realize they they can't use that, it would have gotten them killed.
    Not because they don't have it, but because they now know it won't work, the fact that they instead chose this small desperate near hopeless plan, builds the tension. And emphasises the incredible last ditch victory.
    For it to have any impact and meaning, this had to be the heart, soul and core of the Rebellion at stake.
     
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  11. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Had friends over to watch the OT over the weekend and noticed this particular reaction of Tarkin once Commander Number One told him that there was a danger: "Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?!"

    Hardly a triumph just to eliminate one Rebel cell, IMHO.
     
  12. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    I've never bought that Yavin IV was the ONLY rebel base, that'd be incredibly stupid on their part (concentrate their ENTIRE force in one location). And NO, just because Lucas says something DOESN'T mean that we have to buy it if we don't think that it works/is believable/makes sense. Especially since Lucas had a tendency to change his mind A LOT on what his "grand vision" was. For example, I never bought that the massive and uber-powerful Galactic Empire would immediately fall apart just because they lost ONE battle either.

    Also, film is a VISUAL medium. So, if at all possible, they SHOULD show it. "Show don't tell" is a concept that Lucas has also tended to struggle with.
     
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  13. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Ok i'll try to answer these questions the best I can :cool:

    #1 Well we've known since TESB that the Rebellion have a large fleet located somewhere in space, the ships that we see don't look like they'd be housed at the Massassi base and they weren't in orbit near Yavin IV either. The fact that Dodonna is readily recognised as the leading tactician in the Rebellion that Vader and Tarkin may see his destruction as leaving a body without its brain and no longer a serious threat.

    #2 Commander-in-Chief could be an honourable title, we see that Dodonna plans the raid on DS1 and probably is the overall military commander. Taggi could still command a Starfleet because nobody knows how many fleets make up the Imperial Navy, it may simply be he commands the fleet that provided protection for DS1 until it was fully operational. Also the line "Dangerous to your Starfleet, commander, not this battle station" could simply mean as he was present they referred directly to him, if another fleet commander had been present the line could've been "dangerous to the Starfleet's of the Empire, commander's, not to this battle station". They weren't present so there's no need to include them.

    #3 This is just a plain old fashioned foul up that they seem to want to press on with regardless In my opinion.

    #4 Where's #4? :p

    #5 Its definitely a gunnery control station, Star Destroyer's individual battery's are never shown to be controlled from the bridge in either TESB and ROTJ. The script can be deceptive as its purpose is for the cast and crew to use to film the scene, in editing it can change and the script wouldn't be updated to show this.

    #6 I believe the crystals are used to generate the enormous amount of power to turn the laser into a super laser, though it wasn't hinted at in the script it was suggested by Lucas in his notes that you can find in the Making Of books. The same as Kyber Crystal's being suggested in lightsaber's wasn't acknowledged until much later.
     
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  14. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    The original screenplay (Taggi) suggested that the Rebel base was important for the Alliance fighter pilots to have place where to refuel, repair and do R & R. By the end of ESB we don't see capital Alliance ships that could act as starfighter carriers until the Sullustians and Mon Calamari brought their big ships "to the table" (e.g. "Home One").

    No line of dialogue in ANH suggests that the Empire wanted to destroy a particular person. As a matter of fact, as speculated earlier, any VIPs could have been evacuated (which is possibly true for General Willard because we never see the actor Eddie Byrne again in the film), but according to the radio drama Princess Leia replied to this idea with "Commander, if we fail to stop the Death Star now, other planets will be annihilated."

    Commander-in-chief is a widely used term for the boss in charge. The ANH cast credits for both actors list these as "General Willard" and "General Taggi", yet both are adressed in the dialogue as "commander", and concerning Willard the screenplay explains why, i.e. he is the "commander of the Rebel forces". Before I dare to assume a continuity error, the inevitable conclusion then is, that both generals are commander-in-chiefs, one of the Imperial Starfleet and one of the Rebel forces. I feel obliged to follow the methodology suggested by George Lucas canon.

    Dodonna wears the the same rank badge as Willard, but he`s obviously a mastermind strategist and therefore the coordination of the Death Star attack is his responsibility and baby.

    I hope John Knoll has enough influence regarding Rogue One's production that he will stick with the "iconography" as suggested by ANH.

    Good catch! Don't know how I missed that one. But possibly we can also put # 5 at rest, because the PR shot of the control deck of General Hux' Star Destroyer in TFA suggests the exact same floor paneling, so the Verizon commercial probably shows an interior corridor of the TFA Star Destroyer and not necessarily a Rogue One set.

    According to G-Canon, the screenplay outrules conjectural interpretations. Also, The Star Wars Blueprints feature the set and its description is "starship cockpit". What we see on the screen can't possibly match any location aboard the Devastator to be a window. It's obviously from a camera that tracks the pod and guides the guns. As a remote controlled location it can be anywhere, including the bridge or "cockpit".

    If you refer to the "Lucas Notes" from the summer of 1977, published at the end of the hardcover edition of Rinzler's Making of book I just reread those and couldn't find any creator hint of Kyber crystals being a part of the Death Star's superweapon.
     
  15. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    If its not in Rinzler's book i'm not sure where I read it then, could be the Annoted Screenplays, Amazing Cross-Sections or was it Splinter of a Mind's Eye? Whatever it was would it even be canon now?
     
  16. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #2 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Wow, Rebels is really steamrolling continuity [face_rofl]
     
  17. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    I'd argue the comics are also steamrolling continuity too. For me, as long as it's a good story with characters I can relate to, if they tweak things here or there and I still enjoy it, it's fine.

    If there are serious character assassinations afoot, then I might get a little grumpy.
     
  18. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    We do not know this. None of the original scripts, novelizations or official books ever referred to the "Rebel Star Cruiser" seen at the end of ESB as a "headquarters for the medical personnel" (maybe Rogue One will do so, then we'd have our "Retcon # 4"). I investigated the actual VFX model close-up back in 1988, desperately hoping to find some external feature that could be the door to a hangar bay.

    Again, the entire dialogue in ANH suggests that the Imperials want to locate and destroy the Rebel base but not a particular individual. For all I know, Dodonna is only known to the Imperial bureaucrats as one of the heads of the archeological expedition to Yavin IV...

    According to the early screenplays of ESB the Rebel Alliance was still in its state of infancy, despite the fact that 1,026 star systems had joined the Alliance following the destruction of the Death Star (interestingly the early prologue drafts for ANH constantly say that another victory of the Alliance, following their first battle victory in Rogue One, will make a thousand star systems join their cause - looks like George Lucas paid attention to continuity, then). There were only five regular Star Destroyers accompanying Executor, according to screenplay and novelization.

    I wouldn't know. But I can certainly say, that according to Joe Johnston's Star Wars Sketchbook, the big and modern capital ships were mostly automated and required only a minimal amount of bridge officers. I'd say that the entire bridge complex of Executor, with 11 miles length a flying city in space, has the appropriate size and crew complement, but with smaller ships the amount of bridge personnel we've seen and are about to see (TFA) could be considered as exaggerated.

    That's my point: Three different nuCanon sources felt the need to rewrite the science "fact" concept promoted in the Cross-Sections. Should anybody feel compelled to follow the nuCanon, then the Death Star now destroys planets by using Kyber Crystals.

    I just hope that John Knoll wrote the Rogue One story in such a fashion that there'll be no need or occasion for technobabble.
     
  19. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    I don't have the updated Amazing Cross-Sections but wookiepedia describes the Medical Frigate as EEF76 Nebulon-B escort frigate and as a capital ship. And it's in ROTJ where I can for certainty say it was called the Medical Frigate by Lando

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance_Fleet

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/EF76_Nebulon-B_escort_frigate

    With the old canon we had Dodonna turning from being an Imperial officer to become a leading commander in the Rebellion, that would make it more obvious that the Imperials know both Dodonna's importance to the Rebellion and who they'd most likely get to plan and control the raid. They haven't gotten that far yet so we could see if they will just use that or rewrite an new continuity for that section of history.

    The opening lines of the crawl in ANH states it was the Rebels first victory so that's going to interesting to see in Rogue One...

    We certainly don't really see enough of the Star Destroyer in ANH other than the odd corridor here and there and the aforementioned gunnery officers. It also could be explained by the 3 year gap between ANH and TESB, insomuch as the existing Star destroyers have been upgraded and the bridge has been totally refurbished.

    Whatever was could very well be defined once and for all once the Rogue One: Visual Dictionary and the Rogue One: Amazing Cross-Sections are released I presume. (DK better release them!!![face_laugh])

    Well John Knoll has Star Wars deeply ingrained on him as you would expect of someone who's worked in the franchise for 40 years, will he follow in George Lucas' footsteps and keep exposition to the minimum and let the audience figure it out for themselves?
     
  20. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Sorry, but no. All we see and hear is Wedge looking up at something and saying "They're heading for the Medical Frigate". The next shot shows some TIE Interceptors passing the Rebel Cruiser VFX model from ESB and it has become a widespread assumption ever since that this was the Medical Frigate, although the original editing plan of that scene would have shown one of the bigger ships in its place. Would be cool to see if the actual ROJ storyboards could shed some light on the issue.

    I think it's even simpler than that. Rebels and ANH make use of the small VFX model of the Devastator, whose "cockpit" with "captain" and "chief pilot" we saw in ANH. With the bigger VFX model of the Avenger the bridge design changed. Personally I'd prefer Rogue One to make use of the aft bridge area set that was originally considered for ESB and only consisted of the three windows in the port alcove (seen shortly in ESB during the "first catch of the day scene"). But realistically I'm somewhat afraid that they will just reuse the TFA bridge for Rogue One, too.

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he'll just do that. ;)
     
  21. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Ive still got a few places to look with that one so i'm leaving that one open for now.

    I'm going to have to check that out when ive got time to watch those two scenes again. I agree though they'll almost certainly reuse the bridge set from TFA with a redressing just to make it look different enough, this is obvious as they're reusing the FO landing barge from TFA. One of the few things that I actually don't like from what ive seen so far, i'd prefer they used Sentinel's or come up with a new design of an old shuttle that looked like it was ready to be retired.
     
  22. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Since when are retcons a bad thing? There was a time when Palpatine was a figurehead controlled by "bootlickers" and Vader betrayed and murdered Luke's father.
     
  23. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Retcons are a bad thing when they create continuity error and conflicts and come from people who were never involved with the original productions.

    The examples you mentioned are premise changes by the "creator". Of course, like anybody else, I would have preferred had Lucas already been aware in 1976 where he wanted to go with the Darth Vader character. Rather late in the production of ESB he had an epiphany, realized that making Vader Luke's father added a tremendous punch and moment to the story and I believe everyone agrees that this was the right thing, although it created a continuity conflict.

    However, that shouldn't be interpreted as an invitation to rewrite and erase solid key points of the story and established designs. If there is one thing to be learned from George Lucas' premise changes it is to be "mindful about the future", i.e. make certain that you consider the ramifications at the possible expense of continuity your inventions or ideas could have.

    The latest new Canon retcon I just learned is just plain stupid. General Taggi was supposedly sent to Dantooine to verify Leia's claim (so he just went there with the starfleet and in case he would have found something he would have signalled the Death Star?).

    Then why did Cass not report "General Taggi has reached Dantooine. He has found the remains of a Rebel base but estimates it has been deserted for some time. He is now conducting a search of the surrounding systems."

    In the actual film he is just referring to "our scouts" so it's obvious that just some scouts went to Dantooine, but not General Taggi.

    This is just another example how much respect the "mother" of all Star Wars films gets from TPPTB. Too many people apparently have taken on an arrogant posture pretending "They didn't know what they were doing" and abuse this as a lame excuse to change whatever they don't like about ANH.

    In order to work as a tie-in Rogue One will have to show a minimum amount of respect to ANH, but the more I learn about the "new Canon", the more pessimistic I become.
     
  24. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Big difference for me, as is the uniform of those Imperial Navy gunners.
     
  25. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    While I'm not aware of any distinction between Imperial army or navy in the OT (it's just the Imperial forces), I have to agree that it is somewhat odd that the "captain" appears to wear the jumpsuit of a security technician (seen in the ESB image) and not the black uniform of the Imperial Security Corps (or Black Ops, National Guard or whatever their accurate name was originally intended to be) of other Devastator personnel like Vader's aide and Commander "Praji".

    I had not noticed this discrepancy consciously before, and since film canon outranks screenplay canon, you seem to be right regarding this particular detail. You just reduced me from "chief pilot" to "chief gunner" (LOL).

    And thanks for the "first catch of the day" image which just illustrates my point that not all Star Destroyer bridges feature window balconies (especially when the conning towers of the VFX models are "flat", too). ;)
     
    Django Fett likes this.