Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by Bazinga'd
, Feb 26, 2020.
LFL just hired Spielberg's non-union Mexican equivalent!
Manigold is an in demand director after Logan and F vs. F. Hopefully the right amount of money will get him to put off those other projects for now.
The Craig Bond films are legitimate theater I love the Daniel Craig Bond Films they are my favorites out of all the bond films!
me too. I just watched Casino Royale last night. one of my favorite films of the 2000s
I had no trouble keeping track of where the cars were in FvF, so I'm hopeful Mangold can do that.
I think 9/11 had more to do with the change in direction for the Bond franchise. But I expect we will see a tonal shift with Indy 5 just as we saw with KOTCS. With Indy in the 60's or 70's, we're in the age of spy movies like James Bond and the Western was all the rage on TV with shows like Gunsmoke as well as famous detective shows. I expect we will see these elements to some degree in the next Indy which kind of makes the Spielberg departure all the more unfortunate. The 60's is the decade of Spielberg's transition from adolescence to adulthood so it would be a time period he would be very passionate about and probably some cool ideas on bring Indy into that period.
Bond had been changing through the years, Moore took it in a more light hearted direction, Dalton took it in a more serious direction, when the enforced break and maybe the poor box office of those didn't work they went back to a more suave depiction with Brosnan. But by the time Die Another Day came out I think the sheer ridiculousness of that, the standalone nature of each film, the changing political climate post 911 and maybe even a shift to action films that were more gritty were the things that put it in serious risk of being the culmination of factors that could have killed Bond off. Theres no way another Brosnan film would have worked IMO. It needed freshening up, and as origin stories were the in thing it was actually a genius idea to make a self contained series of Bond films with Craig that can follow the character from the start of his career to the end.
I think you are right with Indy and the era its going to be set in, it'll be interesting to see what tone it takes (I don't want to see Indy wearing flares or with a mop top though). But I think they will hark back to the original trilogy in its story, central theme and tone (just like they made TFA like the OT). This is going to be the final one with Harrison and I really think they may play it safe.
I think the Jason Bourne movies had a larger impact on that sort of change. That's around the time when action movies changed from grand action scenes with an abundance of cgi to a more up-close and gritty fighting style with shaky cam and all that stuff. James Bond had become a bit too over the top with its action, while Bourne gained a ton of popularity through just roughing things up and keeping it personal. And all of a sudden, all the gadgets went out of the window, Bond turned into a quiet and serious person, and the fighting style got a whole lot more gritty.
To be fair, Die Another Day was already moving in that direction with its opening sequence (i.e. Bond is held as a POW and tortured for months on end), but it reverts back to normal after that.
It was kind of strange that they kept Judi Dench as Q. I mean, I love her in the role, but it was like "Wait, is this a reboot or not?"
Make it intense like The Fugitive.
I think you mean "M".
Yeah - Q is the techie person, I believe.
This part kinda sticks out to me, especially the text I bolded
Much as it might also represent Spielberg's own changes in directorial style over the years, adventurer or not, is an Indiana Jones in his 60s and 70s going to be adventuring, going about taking out the bad guys the same way he did in his prime?
I think it also works as a natural evolution of the character. A younger Indy might have just wanted to shoot the ****er or something, but with decades more experience and world-weariness (which is personally something I'd like to see emphasized), I feel like it only makes sense the character himself would also have a different approach to things
So I actually have to disagree with you there. I'd like to see the direction he took in Indy 4, but even further. Doesn't mean he can't be a badass or the adventure can't be fun to watch and full of dangers, but it makes it more interesting when he isn't exactly the same character with no dynamic development at all across five movies
The difficulty I have with that is, whereas someone like Han Solo should be designed to grow, since his story is told across serializes installments that prioritize an arc and change, Indiana Jones is a far more static characters in episodic stories. I think Indy should change within installments to make him a dynamic protagonist who's worth investing in, but not so much between installments the way you would see with Han. I do think it ends up diminishing the character's appeal.
I wouldn't mind if eventually they replaced Harrison with a younger Indy may be the Guy that played Han Solo in Solo! But Harrison should get one more film in the Franchise to pass the mantle so to speak...
I didn't see this shared anywhere, but Jon Kasdan retweeted an article and commented on the Mangold part of the story the day the news broke that he was in talks. The Deadline article also still specifies him as the screenwriter, so unless he didn't actually read the article and missed that part, this might be confirmation that he's still attached to the film:
Mangold's a solid director, but they're really going to be stretching things if Ford is the lead and doing things like in the old days again. Admittedly an Indy set around the early 1970s (or about 1969 at the earliest), with some Easy Rider vibes, might be interesting, but probably not what they'll go for. And Shia's unlikely to come back (I didn't personally mind Mutt, but the actor's thoughts on the film are, well, blunt), so I'm wondering who they'll have if it's a Crusade-style thing, or if they alternate between an old Indy and a younger one.
Basically--there's things they can do, but it'll have to be more jarring next to the old ones than some found Crystal Skull to be, as I see it.
there was a young Indiana Jones where Ford was on a plane telling a story to someone. I suppose they could do that.
The action in Indiana Jones movies started being sanitized with "The Last Crusade". And when you add the lack of originality in much of that film's narrative, well . . .
I honestly do not know why Disney and Lucasfilm are doing a fifth Indiana Jones movie with Harrison Ford, who is now in his late 70s.
I thought Ford only appeared in the episode that took place in Montana. I don't remember much about it, but he wasn't on a plane. He was driving through a snowy forest, chased by the bad guys, and then he ended up at a cabin, where he told his story. Did he do another episode?
I think that's the best way to go, really. With Harrison being in his late 70s, it's just going to look silly to see him hanging off trucks, etc. And it would actually feel a bit uncomfortable to watch him get beaten up the way he did in the earlier films. I mean, who wants to sit in a theater and watch a senior citizen get punched in the face repeatedly? If he's getting punched by another senior citizen, it becomes self-parody. If he's getting punched by a younger guy, it's just awkward and in bad taste.
So, yeah, doing something more like The Fugitive, which managed to be intense without relying on lots of physical action, might be the best approach to making an exciting Indy 5.
I still think it would be fun to have Mark Hamill play the villain. You know Mark would probably love to work with Harrison again, and he'd enjoy playing a villain, and audiences would love seeing the two of them sharing screen-time. I just wonder if Mark could do it without hamming it up TOO much.....
The old guy on a plane was another actor now that i think about it
I'm actually excited now
One thing I'm hopeful Mangold will do is address Indiana's physical limitations while still involving him in intense action. The idea of Indy being someone who pushed his body to the limits is baked into the character going back to Raiders, but what happens when your body starts to push back? What happens when the years and the mileage finally take their toll?
It's not something that was really addressed much in KotCS, but I think given the direction that was taken with Wolverine in Logan, there are decent odds that Mangold will want to approach Indy in a similar way.
This time it's the years and the mileage.