FF:NSW [SPOILERS] Post your movie review of Revenge Of The Sith here!

Now I was just thinking... Obiwan was to learn the way to become one with the force from Qui-Gon during his hermit times on Tatooine. How did Anakin become one with the force and be there with Obi-wan and Yoda at the end of ROTJ? Surely he couldn't have learn't off Qui-gon before Yoda or Obi wan?

 

I agree with Matt and Drew's reading of Anakin/Padme's death. It infuses their bond with a sense of tragedy and makes Anakin's redemption believable.

One thing I've heard many people comment on since we walked out of ROTS Thursday morning is the death of the Jedi. There seems to be common agreement that it is both heart wrenching and symbolic of the soon-to-be Empire's cruelty. Yet, as above, I've also heard many objections about the apparent ease of their demise.

One has to remember that all Jedi are not equal and nor, for that matter, all as skilled as Obi-Wan or Anakin in battle. While much has been made of Jedi premonition, I do not think this is a talent all Jedi possessed - and certainly not something to dwell on in the heat of battle. A sense of danger, if felt, would have been attributed to being in the middle of a rather ruthless engagement. In essence, the Jedi did not expect, or believe for that matter, that their own armies would turn on them. This is clearly part of the 'arrogance' that is attributed to the general Jedi Order throughout the film and foreshadows, as the Emperor saw, their own doom.

This seems to be the place for long, analytical posts, so I might as well continue. It has occurred to me that R2 has knowledge of galactic events from at least the time of the Trade Federation blockade. Further, he has a specific awareness of significant individuals, from Qui-Gon, to the young Anakin, and even Luke's later obsession - his mother, Padme. It seems to me that Yoda should not have been a great surprise to R2, nor Luke's affinity for the Force. I can only conclude that R2 either remained quiet to protect Luke and prevent a repeat of history, or that he was under direct orders from Obi-Wan not to divulge his knowledge - in return for which he was probably spared a memory wipe.

Did anyone else notice the robed figure on Kashyyyk who looked suspiciously like either Barriss Offee or Luminara Unduli?

 

Well, R2 doesn't speak English, and even while he was plugged into the socket on the Xwing in Empire enroute to Dagobah, he had no idea Yoda was on that planet, so he wouldn't have mentioned him.

Actually, it's kind of fun now to watch the OT, and fill in your own lines for what R2s saying

 

Oh I agree, absolutely. There are few places in the OT where R2 could have discoursed on galactic history and even fewer where such information would have been appropriate. Yet R2 seems to have an odd reaction to Yoda for someone who obviously knows of the little Master's significance. Conversely, R2 does recognise Obi-Wan on sight, so he seems to be using unusually insightful discretion. If I were theorising, I would say that R2 played a rather significant role in the birth of the Rebellion and clearly knows what the important issues are. That Leia sent him for Obi-Wan is evidence enough of this.

 

Clones are smarter then droids, they shot at differnet parts of the body, and were well syncronised, making it hard to defend from many shots

Droids simply fire, nothin special

in essence ill take that response however they dont seem to be doing a very good job in the fights against obi wan and yoda.

 

re killing jedi masters

When the clones turned on the masters, I believe they were simply too shocked, bewildered, and confused to think clearly.


"I don't believe it!"
"That is why you fail."



Also, the more I think about it, the more I'm against the whole "palpatine conceived anakin" idea.

My latest issue with it: assuming Palpatine possesses these powers, why when he discovers what's left of Anakin does he call for medical help and not use these powers instead ?

 

What do people make of the moment when Palpatin leans over the burnt Anakin on Mustafa, and touches his forehead?

Was that a glimpse of care? Compassion?

 

Here is a nice link between anakin/padme....listen to the effects track. Padme's heart beat slows when anakins/vader gets stronger.

A clue to the failing of the other jedi is in Anakins line to Obi-wan...his compassion is his weakness. The Jedi's disbelief at their troops turning on them catches them off foot...what would you do to someone that had been fighting along side you for 2 years...??? There compassion delays their action...and gets them killed. Hence why Obi/Yoda once they know the clones are their emeny can focus and cut them down. (Yoda felt the change and betrayal against the other Jedi thru the force, assumed since he wa shown last)

This is a great thread BTW

 

Solidarity. Here are two men, scared by their battle against the Jedi, who's power has come with sacrifice. But the Emperor does not keep Anakin alive out of compassion. Palpatine always relied on the power of his apprentice - Vader is a weapon, and not one relinquished lightly. The touch is all part of Palpatine's mind games - "You, like your father, are now mine."

 

I totally loved it! Though I wish George had changed the ending...to a happy ending...that Anakin eventually turned back to the Jedi and saved whatever Jedi were left. The whole movie made me really sad and depressing. I couldn't sleep Thursday morning/night cuz I was thinking about the movie...In the theatre I was in, many people cried...I went berserked when Anakin cut off Windu's arm -- didn't like that scene...Yoda was awesome, once again...How the Jedi all died were both sad and pathetic. Loved the Anakin and Padme scenes. HATED PALPATINE...omg if I see him anywhere, I swear I would kill that *******.
THE BESTEST MOVIE EVER .

 

Except for the OT, right?

E_S

 

........wha?
Anakin turn back to the Jedi?

You mean in episode 3 or episode 6?

 

1. Revenge of the Sith
2. Howard the Duck
3. Empire Strikes Back

 

Ozhaggis, in some corners of the world such words, even in jest, can result in executions by "SW Romantic montages". I'd be careful if I were you!

E_S

 

HATED PALPATINE...omg if I see him anywhere, I swear I would kill that *******.

Dude, fiction...

 

"Also, the more I think about it, the more I'm against the whole "palpatine conceived anakin" idea."

Agreed. However I did read an excellent theory on another forum. It went something like:

Darth Plagus (??) was Darth Sidious' Master. Plagus was the one who originally had Anakin conceived. By having the child born outside of Republic space it meant there was little chance he would be found by the Jedi. Plagus originally planned to come back when the child was a little older and train him in the ways of the Force and the Dark Side. Sidious learnt some of this plan, and killed his master in his sleep. However Sidious doesn't know where in the galaxy this child is. He becomes Palpatine and gets himself into the political arena, where he can get close enough to the Jedi on Coruscant - if the Jedi do find the child, that's where he'll end up. And we all know more or less how it ends.

Of course, there's also the idea that Anakin was brought about by the Will of the Force. That's what I'd rather think.

"What do people make of the moment when Palpatin leans over the burnt Anakin on Mustafa, and touches his forehead?

Was that a glimpse of care? Compassion?"

Everytime I see that bit I hear Palpatine's voice in my head saying "My son..." almost under his breath. Not that I think Palps was behind Anakin's birth, but more that he sees Anakin will be loyal to him like a son would be to a father. And for 20-odd years that's what he gets. Anakin tell's Padme that he's more powerful than Palpatine, but when he finally becomes Vader he seems more than happy to remain in his servitude.

"I went berserked when Anakin cut off Windu's arm"

I'm not really part of the Grammar Police (ok, so I'm an honorary deputy), but this just isn't on.

 

I think I like the theory about Darth Plageus (How the hell do you spell this name anyway?!) manipulating the midichlorians to create Anakin as you said, I certainly never did like this whole "virgin birth" thing anyway, so that makes it just a little more palatable to me...

 

My two cents...

Firstly, Palpy touching Anakin's head - I think that this is particulary poignant because I think there's a lot of history to this. Firstly, there the fact that he has spent at least 20 years and 3 movies grooming Anakin to be his apprentice. Secondly, there's the whole attachment leads to jealously thing that Yoda talked about. Maybe it's not so much an admission of compassion as a realisation that he almost lost what he had fought so hard to create. I also think that whatever healing/life bringing powers the emporer had he used in creating Darth Vader from Anakin's death thereby not only healing him but in a way bringing him back to life in a real Sith kinda way.

Next, the Jedi's dying so quickly. You have to remember that Jedi are only human.... at least in some cases. Don't forget that in AotC we saw a few Jedi go down in the collesium fight. Jedi are good, yes, but they can still die - and in fact, aren't afraid to die (like Yoda explains). The fact that Ki fought off the clones and the droids for as long as he did is testament to his power. Most jedi went down pretty quickly without even being able to draw a light sabre. The only reason that Yoda lived is that they only sent two clones after him. The only reason Obi-wan lived is that they thought they got him with the one shot. The problem with fanatically obedient clones is that they obey orders immediately, not when the time is right, so Yoda and Obi-wan's deaths were kinda botched because of this. I also liked the fact that Palpy used an entirely different technique with his sabre (the thrust) that the other sabre wielding fighters didn't use. It enabled him to dispatch 3 very powerful jedi quite quickly - that and the fact they didn't expect Palpy to have a lightsabre. You have to remember that the jedi only use the sabre as an absolute last resort - Yoda and the Emporer being particularly powerful are good examples taking into account the relatively small amount of sabre fights they have.

I saw the movie again on Sunday and still believe that it is the only movie of all six that has absolutely no slower moments where it is possible to switch off a little. It is still my favorite outright even over the OT.

 

I agree. Look at the comparisson between Yoda, Mace...and Aalya Secura. Secura (I don't know if it was because she was acted poorly, or what???) didn't seem to have any idea that the clones were about to gun her down. Same with Stass Allie/Adi Galia. They couldn't feel the betrayal through the Force...

And in a sense, neither did Mace. He was owned by Anakin, and did not see that coming.

Yoda, however, and much to his credit, took out the two clones before they could do anything. And then the Royal Guard...

The Jedi are all of different skills, and their level of use of the Force would differ greatly. Anyway, that's about all I have to say about that...

 

I think the idea on Plagus is pretty accurate, however the grand plan was to turn Anakin to the Dark Side, so Palpatine would need to Eventually lead the Jedi to Anakin, which i believe was one of the 2 reasons for the Blockade of Naboo.

It is Evident that Jedi can Glimpse the Future (when in Episode 2 Yoda says something like 'dark side clouds everything, impossible to see the future is'), Which is likely how Palps Planned everything

I imagine it was initially Plagus idea to take over the Senate and the Republic, however Sidious was smart and killed Plagus and took the plan to be his own, AFTER Plagus had made Anakin

Then came the Clone Army, I bet Dooku ordered the army (claiming he was Sifo Dias, What, they gotta show ID?) And then killed Sifo Dias to cover his tracks, Hired Jango (PS2 Game: Bounty Hunter) and Continued to Plot for War with Palps. Being the Leader on BOTH sides meant the dark side would eventually triumph.

Then came the events of Episode 3, Palps playing on Anakin, turning him after throwing his duel with Mace, making it seem the Jedi are evil and playing on Anakins suspicions, and Began the Jedi Purge

dats my ideas

 

Also hte situations for the ifferent Jedi were....well different. Ki has time to call to his troops, see they havce stopped, turn and react. Ayla is walking along and has a heartbeat to realise something is up. A couyple of the others realised when they were getting shot at already. Yoda had lots of time to prepare, and Obi Wan got lucky (Incidentally, I have $20 that says we will see an EU book where Cody comes after him on Tatooine and they fight).

i actually like the idea of Palpatine making Anaikin. I have no real reasoning for it, it just apeals to me. Why did he leave him alone? Well....DID he? I mean he was a slave child, and then 2 Jedi happened by and saved him? 2 who just happened to be involved in another part of his scheme?

Nope. If he can set up the rest he can set this up too.

As for the touch, I think its a way for Jedi to help those injured. Obi Wan tries to do it to some of those in the arena and does it again in Ep3 I think. Its a way of looking for life/easing pain.

At least that was my read on it.

 

Palpatine touching Anakin after the duel is very similar to Obi Wan touching Luke's forehead after the encounter with the Tuskens...

 

yea, im also assuming the hand on head thing is a healing procedure, however Pals does say he hasnt mastered the power to keep people alive/create life...

 

Ive always liked the 'virgin mary' conception. It added a lil more mystery to the galaxy far far away. I feel if Plagius concieved Anakin, in order for him to become to the Dark side, it would have been WAY to coincidental for him to meet Qui-Gon, get off planet, become a jedi, and defect to the Darkside. WAYY TO COINCIDENTAL!

So yeah, as far as im concerned, Virgin Mary it is. It also adds to the whole 'chosen one' deal!

 

try this alternative theory to the Sith....

1) Everything Palp tells Anakin at the Theatre is a lie, used to sway him over to the darkside. Palp first tries the logical approach of how the Sith and Jedi are the same, but Anakin deflects it with the respsonse that the Sith think only of themself and the Jedi think only of others.

Notice at this point Palp has a very long pause...and then he tries a new approach. Using all he knows about Anakins (ie birth, his mothers death, and his fear for Padme) he spins a story that will eventually force Anakin to act on what appears to be concern for Padme, but as Yoda points out, is really out of selfishness for his own loss.

2) Once Anakin is pledged as Darth Vader, only then does Palp let it slip that he doesn't know the secret of life creation, and that together they can both work to find a way to save Padme..... another lie to keep Vader under control until he has executed all the Jedi and is fully in the grip of the dark side.

Why????

Because at the end of the movie Yoda tells us how to achieve extended life...via his new master Qui-Gon. Only thru being selfless and giving oneself to the living force can you retain your persona after death. Even Yoda did not have this power, until Qui-Gon taught him.

Hence the Sith would never achieve their aim of power over life since they are selfish. This also shows how Vader, after thinking only of his son and saving him is able to gain this power thru his selfless act in EP6.

Remember the Sith Masters lie...don't trust what they say. The conception of Anakin was the will of the force at a time when the Dark Side would unbalance the scales. Only thru Anakin and his heritage would balance be restored on both the Light and Darksides of the equation.

This is only my 2cents worth but I like it as it is simple and doesn't draw any long theories outside of the movies.