ST ST Complimentary Discussion Thread

Force sensitivity for Finn would be great.

I imagined in TFA that his programming/mindwashing was overidden by shock. However, there's a nice twist if he awakened as well.

 

Despite what we were officially told, what I feel when I'm watching TFA makes it seem like there's some Force sensitivity in there somewhere too. First for his reaction after the bloody hand swipe, and second for how he hears the screams of the Hosnian victims before they actually scream. I know we were told that it's either a sound editing mixup or that those are the screams of people at Maz's castle, but neither makes sense, IMO.

 

imo it would be a bit of a stretch if the Stormtrooper who deserted the FO happened to be also Force sensitive. Also, Finn is presented as a very down to Earth person, I'm not sure if it would work to transform him in someone with a sort of meditative approach to life.

 

Yeah, I get what you mean, but at the same time, wouldn't it also make sense that the one Stormtrooper out of a million that had the inner strength to resist the indoctrination might have force sensitivity? It would actually explain why that happened to him.

 

Meditation has nothing to do with Force sensitivity, though. One can be sensitive to the Force and not have that meditative approach to life at all. He doesn't really need to be transformed.

I can buy Finn as Force sensitive because that sensitivity could be what awakened him to the pain and suffering caused by the FO's destruction of the village, because he can literally feel it because he's literally connected to the villagers (and everything else) through the Force. It goes beyond empathy into actual, literally shared emotion, the way Obi-Wan felt the destruction of Alderaan in ANH.

Finn as Force sensitive is something I never considered because I was entirely deaf to all the build up prior to TFA. I've seen people say they thought Finn was Force sensitive because he took up the lightsaber in the trailer, but I never saw the trailer.

Thanks for something new to consider, guys. Well, new for me, anyway. I've always had a hard time accepting Finn's freak out early in TFA.

 

"Ooh. That fiery spit of hope! You have the Spirit of a True Jedi!"

Wonders never cease. He told us the truth!

MJ

 

I don’t think the point of the “force” in Star Wars is that it’s something that governs the actions of a chosen few. Finn made the choice he did because he perhaps has an innate conscience and sense of morality. Not because the force pushed him in that direction. At least, I hope not.

 

It's not about choosing an action, but about resisting mental conditioning. Similar to Rey resisting Kylo's attempts to probe her mind. The fact that very few ST resist the conditioning led me to believe there's a possibility of him being force sensitive. Prior to TLJ's release, I though it was also possible that he would discover he's Mandalorian.

 

Star Wars has always done a great job of showing heroes encountering sort of an Angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other in the forms of light side vs Dark Side but one thing I’ve enjoyed is this trilogy’s exploration of a third worldview for Finn and Rey to encounter. Worldviews from men who have had their views changed and who’ve come to new ones and expressed them to our young heroes. Finn & Rey then choose to become the kinds of people they want to be.

 

Crafted story telling I loved.

Poe: So we blow that one up?
Finn: I like where you're heading, but no. They'd only start tracking us from another Destroyer.
C3PO: If I was the soul voice of reason, Admiral Holdo will never agree to this plan.
Poe: You’re right 3PO. It’s a need to know plan and she doesn’t.

Maz: There's exactly one guy I trust that can crush that kind of security. He is a master code breaker,
Poe: Did you find the master code breaker?
Finn: We found "a" code breaker.

DJ :They blow you up today you’ll blow them up tomorrow. ("maybe"?)

Holdo (a proxy leader to Leia) who didn't know about the plan till later, eventually rejecting it, however, in the Raddus at light speed, slams and blows up the Supremacy and all the other ships. (became a real sacrificing Leader and Hero ).

MJ

 

^ I have no idea what you're trying to say with your color-coded text, if you're trying to say something.

 

What’s exactly doesn’t seem to link for you?

MJ

 

A balanced storyline that ends pretty much the way it was predicted, or hinted, in the beginning. Cool stuff!

It's the same with Luke. In the first act, he's all "You think what? I'm gonna walk out with a laser sword and face down the whole First Order? What did you think was going to happen here? You think that I came to the most unfindable place in the galaxy for no reason at all? Go away."
In the last act, he walks out with a laser sword and faces down the whole First Order.

 

I was just curious at what was your thesis or your point.

Because thematically linking main tropes and concepts is not only basic storytelling exercise, is also common fan exercise.

 

What bothers some as unrealistic or juvenile plotting just doesn’t bother me that same way. I don’t know why. It just doesn’t. I am somehow able to just run a lot of it through the same filter that allows me to accept a lot of other unrealistic or juvenile plotting from other Star Wars content somehow. The ST may in some ways be a new low for it in the saga perhaps but not by any real extent that it’s out of whack from Star Wars to me.

The lack of background info on the state of the galaxy that bothers some is just something I expect to learn more of via the EU the same way I did the OT as a kid.

I’ve already shared how I consider Luke Skywalker’s arc one of the strengths of the entire saga with ambition to look at the father and son myth that existed and ask how it could be enriched further and deliver something that I feel does that for me, and how anything less ambitious than that would have disappointed me. Even if it meant seeing Luke stronger and with more accomplishments to his name. I’ve also shared how I feel the end of VIII sets up for a more enjoyable Luke in IX as the storm before that rainbow.

I find quiet a bit in VIII generally humorous. So, the comedy criticism doesn’t bother me either.

My big Rey theories were that Reylo was possible, that it could be interesting to the saga, and that Rey Kenobi was my own personal preferred lineage tie-in with this saga ultimately starring the grandchildren of the prequel trilogy without either knowing it until later and both of those remain remote possibilities for IX for me.

I don’t personally see the Holdo maneuver as true hyperspace in how I view hyperspace as an alternate dimension, rendering much of the criticism related to how it supposedly renders all Star Wars combat prior useless, well, mostly useless for me, personally. I’m willing to wait for more info from the story group on what it was, what it wasn’t, and what it might mean about combat into the future rather than assume the worst.

I enjoy many of the thematic explorations that I feel each of the plots in the ST are focused on and I feel that VIII has changed how I view VII in an interesting way that makes IX more exciting for me. I agree with those who believe the saga wasn’t planned out all that well but believe that it’s now possible to view or interpret how VII was written differently now even if it wasn’t the original intention because I believe that new story developments can and should do that to old ones and that whether it was all deliberate or not comes secondary to what now is.

Poe showed me before that he was risk-averse so I see his actions as a plausible enough development in who he is as a person I’m getting to know under an extremely stressful situation where he’s down someone who helped to balance him out more in Leia. It’s a new development but one that I can effectively suspend disbelief around. The same goes for Holdo who I see as a spiritual extension of ANH-era Leia and like many artistic adults I know who still dress, live and act like how they did in their younger years.

Nothing in particular politically upsets me in the ST so I’m also not triggered in anger by anything there.

I find some of the biggest disconnects between VII & VIII mostly to be the portrayal of Hux, along with the development of where Rey & Ben end VII, pick up VIII (where she tries to shoot him) and bond beyond that later. It is a jump but one that I find interesting enough to suspend disbelief around a variety of reasons provided in VIII but primarily that I feel she is young, was looking for Force guidance badly, hit rock bottom emotionally, and rebounded to a bad dude the way a lot of young women I remember in college made mistakes around guys that had others scratching their heads. As someone who believes Star Wars is in part about the journey through young adulthood I think young people seeing that mistake is a good thing so long as episode IX sticks the landing on Reylo and delivers something special.

Which brings me to the last point. I’m excited for episode IX. I’m curious where things will end. I want to see one heck of a comeback victory. I’m wondering if they have a Rey lineage twist yet. I want to see Crait Luke more. I hope we get Knights of Ren finally. I want to see how Reylo concludes and how this war ends and how the whole saga ties up. That’s probably the biggest compliment I can pay of all. I want to know what happens next because I truly have no clue how things will turn out from here and thanks to where VIII left things I think IX has the potential to finally stand on its own and become the most original ST movie yet.

 

I think Hux is an very interesting character especially in TLJ. He’s devoted to Snoke yet as Snoke conveyed to Kylo a “rabid cur put in a place of power” can be used as a sharp tool. It is a play on “not the sharpest tool in the shed” by way of indiosynchracy yet when push comes to shove can be cunning and he did prove it by the use of hyperspace tracking.

I’d also likely to believe Snoke actually learned from Hux’ failure to realise Poe was “tooling “ him by....connecting Kylo with Rey by bridging their minds.

Hux was on the *ahem* Bridge when Poe pretended not to hear Hux. Hux was fooled “I can hear you. Can you hear me?” Let’s go to Kylo/Rey : “ can you see my surroundings? I can’t see yours “

My favourite line from Hux I’ve already mentioned before by the way was “wonders never cease he told us the truth “ and rivaling that is “ do you think you got him?” Hux can be witty too. Top that off with “Supreme Leader don’t get distracted “

I can’t wait to see the Hux/Kylo “Supreme Leader” dynamic in IX.

MJ

 

MJ

 

I agree with those who find Hux interesting even though he’s incompetent and inherited his position due to his father. A lot of that goes to Gleeson who continues to bring him to life despite different goals from JJ and Rian about how he can best be utilized. Gleeson picked his spots and brought some of TFA Hux into TLJ where he could like some of the aforementioned moments. Everyone but the primary antagonist, Kylo Ren, is seriously struggling in some ways in VIII. They all make mistakes under the pressure. Including him.

He remains interesting though. It’s fun to watch him get smacked the same way it was fun to watch Loki or Joffrey get smacked and you kind of get the sense that although he may not be a particularly clever military strategist in the moment he might be better as a schemer working behind the scenes over a longer period of time and covering his tracks. I think he still has a role to play yet and that he’s a little closer to being capable of a scheme like Littlefinger in the end than we thought.

Snoke was a very different boss for him and I think he knows Kylo Ren’s weak spots better than he knew Snoke’s and has enough anger inside to take a risk.

 

Is Hux really that incompetent in the context of the ST? Because he so far accomplished more than, really, any other character.

 

Fair point. The FO is descended from a group who lost in part because their boss thought it wise to put father & son together and share the actual location of a shield generator that was crucial to his reign and because that empire’s basic training protocol seemingly never involved accuracy training with blasters and because their engineers made armor from metal that could be crushed by pieces of wood. Guess everyone has bad days and lets their arrogance get the best of them now and then!

This group is like a dot com upstart with a lot of staff over their heads who were likely fed a lot of propaganda and believe their own hype. They have numbers and weapons though to offset for what they lack in strategy. We basically see him on what may have been one of his worst days on the job in VIII & even there he nearly snuffed out the only group resisting the FO’s rise through the resources he has at his disposal.

There has been wave of antagonism lately in film and TV that hasn’t been presented as brilliant or strong but who are just cruel and whiny and petulant and driven. He fits that profile.