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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST ST Criticism Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jun 1, 2018.

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  1. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Actually that was Lucas on ANH and ROTJ not the prequels where his direction of actors was very different. As for the dialogue that is a whole other matter as it was 1) Exactly what was needed for the story 2) It really wasn't any different at base than it ever was.

    I've never understood this dialogue "problem" as this was always the case from Guiness to Ford, Hamill to Fisher bringing it up in the first place.

    Lucas' dialogue in all six movies is very specific to the story and the characters in the serial and silent movies way he intended.

    For whatever reason the actual poorly thought out dialogue of the ST has gotten a pass. Why I don't know.

    Basically yes. Their movies entire basic intent from the start was to overwrite those movies with their requels. If there was any plan at all then that was it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  2. PendragonM

    PendragonM Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2018
    What folks forget is that Ford's "you can type this..." ends with 'but it works for the movie." to wit:

    There were times when I issued a threat to tie George up and make him repeat his own dialogue," adds Harrison Ford, 35, who plays Han Solo, the cynical mercenary captain of the Millennium Falcon. "I told him: 'You can't say that stuff. You can only type it.' But I was wrong. It worked." http://time.com/4153583/star-wars-the-years-best-movie/

    Because a hundred clickbait articles screeched about how it was so much better. Like "droid please" and "got a cute boyfriend" or "General Hugs" are upgrades.

    I'm always amused that Lucas, two time Oscar nominee for best director, keeps being trashed as a bad director. It's not modern blockbuster, it's its own thing.
     
  3. Binary_Sunset

    Binary_Sunset Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2000
    A possible way to retcon TLJ entirely out of existence:

    1. Remember the song-and-dance number Yoda gave Luke when they first met on Dagobah? What if Luke was doing something similar but more thorough with Rey? What if he was only on the surface trying to dissuade her from becoming a Jedi, while all the while thinking to himself, "If she passes this test of dissuasion, Rey will be a powerful Jedi indeed."

    2. Strictly speaking, we never saw Luke die in TLJ. His body simply disappeared. He didn't die! It was a new Force power! He simply teleported himself elsewhere. Lame? Sure is, but we have to work with what we got. All I know is that I would prefer a teleporting Luke to a dead one.

    3. Snoke? Who cares? Good riddance.

    4. The Resistance being reduced to a handful of people? Bah! Set the movie a year or two after TLJ, have lots of people in the Resistance, and ignore TJL.

    Done. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
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  4. CrAsHcHaOs

    CrAsHcHaOs Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 7, 1999
    I personally liked TLJ a lot but I have a feeling JJ Abrams doesn't like a lot of the things that Rian Johnson did, so he's gonna retcon a bunch of stuff from TLJ.
     
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  5. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Re: Abrams and Johnson

    What goeth around, cometh around.
     
  6. xezene

    xezene Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2016
    I said this elsewhere but I wanted to post it here because I guess it sums up my feelings about the new trailer.

    One thing I have to say, and it keeps being the case each new movie that I feel like I'm kind of reiterating it each time, but it's that each ST film since ROTJ has just felt, to me, like they are ignoring ROTJ entirely. Not just the events of that movie but the themes in it. Rather than try to move forward, it just feels like each film at this point has been proceeding on a different timeline -- as if ROTJ didn't happen, and instead it's a kind of a dark alternate timeline after ESB, where Luke is all bitter about the Jedi, the Rebels are on the run, and Palpatine is still hanging around. It's like these new movies, even the titles -- The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, The Rise of Skywalker -- they could all be alternate titles for ROTJ, like this is that dark alternate timeline where the real ROTJ doesn't happen. I guess to me it just feels like ROTJ is totally ignored, which is too bad because it's my favorite movie. It also explains why they mostly ignore the themes of the prequels, because ROTJ as a film is truly the linkage to the prequels. Just some thoughts.
     
  7. CrAsHcHaOs

    CrAsHcHaOs Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 7, 1999
    MODified: This is not the section of the boards for discussing content from unreleased films.
     
  8. xezene

    xezene Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2016
    MODified: This is not the section of the boards for discussing content from unreleased films.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2019
  9. CrAsHcHaOs

    CrAsHcHaOs Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 7, 1999
    MODified: This is not the section of the boards for discussing content from unreleased films.

    In gaming terms, you think the ST feels more like DLC to the OT rather than brand new, standalone games?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2019
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  10. InterestingLurker

    InterestingLurker Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 15, 2011
    The only problem I had with your post was the implication (at least, from what I could see) that the Oscars mean anything. To me, they mean nothing. One should be the final judge of the quality of an artistic piece; not some award show that comes once a year where old men decide what's "great" based on nothing. The Oscars have pulled too much nonsense over the years for me to take them seriously.

    ...Other than that, I loved your post. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  11. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Biggest criticism for me, and this seemed evident again with the new trailer, is that the films seem very human-centric, there aren't many very memorable alien or creature characters. I want to see some weird creatures, and I mean Jabba levels of weird. Sarlacc weird. There were some camels and some foxes in The Last Jedi, but that's about it. A few oddballs at the casino, but nothing terribly memorable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  12. xezene

    xezene Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2016
    I suppose that's a good way to describe it, though much of the new 'material' in that DLC seems to be at serious odds with the OT its pulling from. It's almost like a poor remake of the original game.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  13. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Star Wars has showed us before that underdog Rebels with an alone Jedi isn’t needed to make amazing stories.

    Though RoTJ dealt with, its clear to me that the message was moving beyond that.

    So many paths Disney could have taken. A surviving New Republic dealing with its own issues and the legacy the previous Republic left.


    Luke dealing with an Academy and the responsibility of bringing back the Jedi (and how it differs from old Jedi) and a dark Jedi emerging from his school.

    An imperial remnant that lacks a Palpatine wannabe, one struggling with resources/manpower to fight its enemies. Some of their craft still being old Imperial ones. Resorting to hit and run tactics. No strength to build a better Death Star, using other weapons as a substitute (biological weapons?).

    Non-Imperial factions from pirates/criminals, etc entering the picture for more power grabbing.


    I’m looking forward to whatever is being planned for future films that isn’t based on OT/ST style.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  14. El Jedi Colombiano

    El Jedi Colombiano Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2013
    ^:)^ You hit the nail right in the head friend. The dialogue of the ST, in particular TLJ, is largely insipid and poorly thought out- a line of dialogue like "that's how were gonna win. not fighting what we hate but saving what we love" sounds like something written for a Greeting Card at CVS, not a Star Wars movie- their is no philosophical or moral fable in any of the quotes, it's all fanfic level at best.
     
  15. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    That takes multiple things to accomplish of which they a) don't really want to do in the first place, b) don't have the time to with the production rushes they are in, c) what little they want to do is based so much around not wanting to use CGI so they are stuck with masks or puppets that work in the background but can't really be relied on for featured roles.
     
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  16. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    This thread is for discussing the RELEASED films The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi.

    This will be the final warning we waste our time typing for you all to ignore. Care about your thread enough to encourage each other to abide by this.

    This thread will be locked and people will be banned.

    Stay on topic or stay out of the thread. This is not a forum for discussing unreleased films.
     
  17. comet1440

    comet1440 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2004
    No disrespect but it is unreasonable to request that. "Sequel Trilogy" criticism thread. No way people can talk about TFA and TLJ while completely mentally blocking out TRoS. You gotta be realistic. if this is about spoliers, those people need to realize we are in the information age and unless they are going to disconnect from the internet completely, there is no escape. I'm not even posting in this thread but I'm just saying.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Fine. Say your goodbyes. I'll lock the thread since self-control is apparently far too much to ask.
     
  19. comet1440

    comet1440 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2004
    The Mods do a good job but there are practical limits to how much you can regulate discussion. Just let it be. No real harm in including TRoS discussion here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
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  20. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Aside from the fact that the forum the thread is in literally has the words "Released Films" as its designation.

    You win.

    Locking.
     
  21. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    The Mod staff have decided that the Complimentary/Criticism threads have run their course, for now, and believe that the other relevant threads can handle discussion of both points of view well enough. The usual rules still apply. Play nice. Don't go crazy (crazier).
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
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