Discussions Star Wars Filoni TCW Retcons

Can we discuss the retcons that the Star Wars Clone Wars show and movie did to things like the Clone Wars Multimedia Project?

 

The Clone Wars feels like its set in a different Version of the SW Universe from day one, as it assumes that Anakin was knighted straight after Geonosis and not like halfway into the war with several storylines of him as a Padawan beforehand. I actually wish they had set it in an different Universe from day one and owned the fact they did. Not try to make it fit with the established EU with a lot of bandaid and several outright retcons.

 

TCW works better if you think it only happens in the Disney Universe/New Canon Universe i like TCW but is not compatible with Multimedia Project

 

True. Personally, I don't mind what they did with Barriss Offee. That's just me. I feel she's more interesting as a fallen Jedi Knight. However, I don't like the idea of Save Opress slaying Adi Gallia. If she has to perish, then I can accept Grievous being her killer as he was in the original EU. Just makes him more dangerous to know that he could take down a member of the Jedi Council. I don't believe Savage could quite do that. While Adi is not as strong as Savage, I do think she's fast enough to escape or even maim him.

This last part doesn't have anything to do with retcons. But I do believe that there should have been more dialogue between Maul and Savage in TCW. They should have had at least one more disagreement and a subtle bonding moment. I actually have no problem with most retcons in TCW. Having said that, I do prefer how James Luceno writes Dooku than how Filoni and his writers handled him. TCW portrayed Dooku as a sadist, but in actuality, he doesn't care about the suffering of anyone. He's not fire come to burn you; he's water come to drown you. Plus, his political idealism and fascism are what corrupted him. I do feel that Dooku is better written in the Tales of the Jedi miniseries than TCW. Yet this is not too noticeable and his overtly villainous portrayal in TCW is much less noticeable than it is in the ROTS novelization.

 

A lot of EU fans dislike Filoni because TCW contradicted much of the pre-2008 established Clone Wars continuity. However, I personally think that most of the massive contradictions and continuity problems TCW created are not entirely his fault.

From what I've come to understand, Filoni's original plan for TCW was very different from the show we got. He initially planned to create a circumscribed story that would have revolved around a specific group of characters. The group he had in mind was supposed to be the crew of a ship going on various adventures during the Clone Wars. Apparently he didn't want Anakin and Obi-Wan to be part of the show as to avoid contradicting the Clone Wars Multimedia Project (the books, the comics, etc). But it seems that George rejected the idea and wanted Anakin and Obi-Wan to be part of the show, so Filoni agreed, accepted George's conditions and started working on TCW by following George's desire of having Anakin and Obi-Wan is prominent characters in the show.

Nowadays Filoni acts like a hack, who doesn't respect the work of other people and doesn't mind contradicting it. But I don't think he always had this behavior. I believe that he was initially a genuine EU fan who didn't want to contradict the established continuity, until George taught him that continuity doesn't really matter, with the result that Filoni took this attitude from George and started saying to himself: "Well, if George doesn't respect continuity, then why should I respect it? You know what? I don't want to care about anyone else's story, I just want to do my own thing."

So, if anyone is to blame for TCW's faults, then it's Lucas, not Filoni. At least not entirely.

 

George and Dave are right about continuity. And Dave is innocent of what you claim, all of his supposed retcons are exaggerated. If anything he sticks too close to the EU rather than following what George told him

 

I strongly disagree. Not caring about continuity and not having respect for the work of other people is a very selfish behavior. Writing a book or a comic requires a lot of effort, a lot of work and a lot of sacrifices from many people. To not worry about contradicting the work of others and to have no respect for the comics and the novels they wrote means to behave like a selfish and disrespectful person, who can't value and appreciate the effort of those who have worked on these works, and who thinks his work and effort are more important than the work and effort of others. Just put yourself in the shoes of one of the writers of the novels and comics that were contradicted by Dave and George. You spent a lot of hours of your time writing that novel/comic, you put a lot of effort into it and you made sacrifices, maybe you even sacrificed some of your personal life to do that work, and all of that for what? For nothing, because apparently continuity doesn’t matter, so all the time you spent was for nothing, and therefore your work is worthless. How would you feel about it, huh?

As I said in my previous post, I don't think all the retcons that TCW introduced where Dave's fault. But still, you can't say they're exaggerated. The retcons introduced by TCW literally destroyed 90% of the Clone Wars Multimedia Project and made entire novels to be obsolete, again, regardless of who's to blame for that. On the other hand, if you're talking about Dave's retcons in the New Canon, then I might even agree with you. Some of them (like Dooku's story in Tales of the Jedi, or Yoda's lightsaber in The Book of Boba Fett) are actually exaggerated.

I don't think this is the case. But even assuming that this is true, I honestly don't see what the problem is. Considering that I don't like George's ideas for the Sequel Trilogy, his view of the Force and the Jedi, and almost 80% of the Special Edition changes, I honestly wouldn't mind contradicting George's ideas if I was in Dave's place. But that's just me.

 

TCW was a Reboot before Disney as Anakin was already a Jedi Knight shortly after AOTC while in Multimedia Project Anakin becomes a Jedi Knight much later during the Clone Wars TCW was never made to Fit with the Multimedia Project TCW was "Lucas Canon" while Multimedia Project during TCW was now only Expanded Universe Canon Lucas considered the Expanded Universe an Alternate Universe to his but i think short time after the Prequels Movies ended the Multimedia Project was still considered Canon at some point since Lucas dont wanted Quinlan Vos to die in the Last Republic Comic thats why Quinlan Vos Survived Order 66 because Lucas wanted to use Quinlan in Star Wars Underworld TV Show but maybe during TCW now Lucas considered the Multimedia Project or the Expanded Universe as Non Canon to his Universe

 

@The Emotional Jedi I agree with you on that people tend to ignore Lucas' involvement into the continuity mess that was TCW, the moment Filoni started to dismiss the EU completely, from hearsay, is when fans at a convention noted that Yularen wasn't a Grand Admiral in ANH, so him being Admiral to go down to Colonel seemed weird without a retcon (Filoni thought the guy was a Grand Admiral because of the white suit, so he saw a logical transition from "Republic Admiral during the Clone Wars" to "Imperial Grand Admiral during the Civil War"), from that point onwards he dismissed the EU as lesser canon, when before that he tried to be consistent with it even with minor background characters such as Yularen.

That said in spite of seeing this told in many sites i can't find a source, i would appreciate if anyone backed it up, because it would indicate that it wasn't just Lucas' approach to continuity influencing Filoni, it was pushback between Filoni and the fans in light of genuine continuity mistakes, which Filoni later justified saying George did the same thing he did.

Which i find strange because Lucas is less disrespectful to the EU than Filoni was, even with his faults.

Regarding the retcons, @Falcon Gray i happen to know this handy little video that details a lot of the issues TCW causes if we treat the original EU Clone Wars timeline as gospel, it goes over it in a timeline, very useful for remembering what was altered:

Of course Fordo in the video presents it in an argumentative speech, however i think it does a good job explaining it.

 

There is also a forst part to that video. The video you sent Is only the seconds part. This is the first part:

 

Yes i am aware it's just part 2 but i think part 2 helps to understand the contradictions better with the timeline and all, the first part is him making the point and it is more argumentative than explicative for someone who doesn't know.

 

The amount of retcons in TCW to the EU prior to Legends being a thing is staggering. I'm not even going to try to list them all, but we know some of the obvious ones.

• Ahsoka
• Maul coming back to life and making him Dathomirian
• Ventress as a Dathomirian and Nightsister
• Most aspects of Grievous
• More individuality in the clone troopers

 

Disney Version of the Clone Wars is for me TCW Show Events the Universe where Darth Maul Returned during the Clone Wars, Anakin or Vader having a Padawan during the Clone Wars and since 22 BBY, more Duels between Dooku and Anakin and Obi Wan, Ventress being a Nightsister and not a Rattataki, the Clones dont have Chips and they act more like Regular Humans, Savage Opress Darth Maul Brother and Cad Bane are Regular Villains, Barriss Offee is Younger than Anakin and Turns to the Dark Side, Moraband is now Korriban Real name

Legends Version of the Clone Wars Multimedia Project Events the Universe where Sora Bulq and Depa Billaba Turned to the Dark Side, Anakin is a Padawan during the Clone Wars until 19 BBY, Ventress never Turn to the Light Side and is more Evil, General Grievous is a Bigger Threat than his Disney Universe Counterpart, the Clones dont have Chips they do Order 66 at their Own Will the Clones in Legends are well Trained to Obey Orders they have some independence too but are Colder than TCW or Disney Universe Version of the Clones, Durge works for the Separatists and is just as important as Ventress or Grievous, Dooku have a Dark Jedi Army, Quinlan Vos was important for Legends Clone Wars as he spent a lot of time trying to Spy on Dooku to end the War, Multimedia Project Characters appearing during the Clone Wars as the Dark Woman, K'Kruhk, Siri Tachi or A'Sharad Hett, Mandalore is not a Kingdom, Multimedia Project or Legends Version of Aayla Secura is the Original and the First Version of the Character since Aayla Secura was Created before AOTC and for the Multimedia Project