Star Wars on ITV....

whats so wrong with ROTJ....i rate it just behind ESB...its bring everything together; most of all, its combines a good storyline with brillant effects (even for today).

although, some things are best left alone..the ending music in ROTJ SE was quite dreadful but the extra scenes were OK

--------------------------------------
Just making sure the voice of the ROTJ Defence Force is heard

 

Another thing....

thats sooooo true about ESB SE..where Vader returns to the Executor. His voice has been screwed up..it sounds nothing like JEJ's voice (was it even him doing that???)...

those extra scenes of where he lands were stolen partly from ROTJ where Vader meets Jerrjrod ...(or something like that )...

..half baked bit of work..not what u expect from ILM

 

points to consider for the RoTJ Defense Force...

*'new' Jabbas band and musical interlude.
*lame sarlacc 'beak' (I liked the sarlacc as a barren pit)
*additional ewok scenes. the ending - nice with the different planets but dire music, and unnecessariness abound.

Besides the by.... on the sail barge, a pirate bloke shoots luke in the hand when he is standing literally 6 feet away. Does he qualify as worst shot in the galaxy ahead of greedo?

 

in defense of that guy....i believe he was aiming for the hand so that luke would drop the saber, cos he knew firing at luke would mean gettn a shot deflected back at ya

good thinking from the guy..but it still doesnt take away from the fact that he an idiot...(he runs back into the sail barge..)

 

nah.
He should of shot him in the face. Luke was looking and facing in the other direction. He was terrible. The bloke should have been a stormtrooper with that accuracy...

 

Hahaha, too true Az..

 

Greedo is NOT trying to kill Han. He is merely emphasising his point by shooting to the side of Han's head.

 

I like the way you said that with a straight face.

UKS

 

I would like to respond to J_J's and UKS's earlier comments.

Firstly on the subject of Obi-wan being trained by Yoda. I guess that this is something, which is explained in the books at some point? It is certainly not explained in the films and my argument would be that the films should be self-contained. They should stand alone without requiring further exposition through the books. If I was not a Star Wars fan and simply a casual viewer, I would be confused by this point. And in fact as a SW fan, I find it annoying that there is this apparent inconsistency, amongst others.

UKS, thank you for your comments. You say that I don't really have any valid points in my views on the Special Editions. Not surprisingly, I would beg to differ

Lucas, as I understand it, wanted to finish off scenes in ANH that he couldn't do the first time round. This was in addition to cleaning-up the print and making it presentable for a re-release.

The problem I have is that Lucas has been very specific in what he has corrected. Why return to a film with the aim of improving or adding what you couldn't initally do and leave other glaring errors or problems in place?

It was nothing more than a cynical attempt to milk more money from the SW franchise.

I don't dislike the SW Special Editions and as I outlined some of the enhancements are welcome and make an "improved" film. I agree, the special effects did not make me unable to enjoy Star Wars. What makes me unable to enjoy parts of it now, are the unnecessary and careless new effects that have been added.

The Jabba the Hutt scene is an example in point. It adds nothing to the narrative of the film and the effect looks terrible. Why add in a scene, which clearly doesn't work and was cut from the original release for the same reason?

On a separate point, I disagree with someone who said the Biggs scene on Tatooine should be restored. This would seriously damage the pacing of the opening of the film. I know from having heard Gary Kurtz speaking about this at several conventions, that the decision was taken to delete those scenes because they slowed the pace.

To answer someone else's question, no it wasn't James Earl Jones' voice used for the additional Vader dialogue in Empire. It is a wasted scene and again unnecessary.

This is the point I am making UKS. Why add things to a film, which are not required and disrupt or destroy the pacing and narrative? The result is not an improved version of the film, it is a degraded one.

 

T_P, did you miss Yoda training the young Padawan's in AOTC? Obviously as they get older Yoda cant go out on 'work experience' with all of them, hence Qui Gon was assigned to look after Obi Wan.

 

No I didn't miss that scene J_J, however it takes some leap of logic to assume that Yoda trained Obi-wan when he was a young Padawan! Furthermore, if Obi-wan wasn't trained alone by Yoda, why doesn't he mention the fact at any point?! Why is only Yoda mentioned?

It just doesn't make sense and it is to me an example of Lucas' carelessness when it has come to making the prequels. He is now trying to make the pieces fit, when clearly they don't.

 

I dont understand why its hard to make the link that Yoda trained Obi Wan when he was young- do you need EVERYTHING explained to you in the films? I think showing Yoda with the younglings is enough info. As for why Yoda or Obi Wan never mention Qui Gon- well why should they?? Obi Wan never got long enough to tell Luke- and on Hoth (while Luke is about to go unconscious) he (Obi Wan) quickly tells Luke to go to Hoth where he will meet Yoda who trained him- which is true- he doesnt need to tell Luke his life story and all about Qui Gon cuz Qui Gon is dead and no help to Luke where as Yoda is still alive. So on Hoth Obi Wan gives Luke a brief message before loosing consciesnous (sp?). Yoda never mentioned him because he probably never seen fit to mention him- unless it was brought up in an afternoon chat on Dagobah while training.

Just my opinion. But hey- who knows what will be explained in Episode III. Lets get the six parts all finished and then ask the questions.

 

"which are not required and disrupt or destroy the pacing and narrative?"

The point I tried to make, (and I may have been unintentionally rude making them), is this is all in your opinion. You think they are superfluous to the story AND RUIN IT. I don't. Some of these changes work for me, (Biggs Addition at Yavin, the New end sequence), some are "better" then old scenes but are not that special (New Lame CGI ROTJ band over Old Lame Muppet ROTJ Band), some may be detrimental to the film as we I it, (Greedo being a Crap shot, the Fuzzy Voiced Vader in ESB), but they are changes George Lucas wanted to make. They do not suddenly make a great film into a bad one. All in all, I would say the good additions of the SE outweight any of the bad ones.

And I say again, I would bet money that when the SE DVD's come round that:

1. More effects are fixed.

2. Greedo DOESN'T fire first.

BTW, I believe the Jedi Training Structure is covered quite well in TPM and AOTC. Well enough, to explain Obi-Wan being trained by Yoda.

But that, is a different Kettle of fish....!

UKS

 

hurm.
okay then,in my opinion GL was a fool to sod around with the films.
end of.
sure,the effects and the general images shoulda been cleaned up but adding a comedy asp-droid thumping a probe-droid outside mos eisley?
does this deepen our understanding of the core concept?
well?
does it?
hell,no.
and you can debate and second guess this [expletive deleted] all you want,the SE still stank of crass,ignorant marketing.














but i did like the new-look sarlacc.
damn.

 

i beg to differ jamie..that sarlacc head was lame..lame..lame; if anything it made the sarlacc look nicer plus those scenes dont really look right...

..the SE is just a clean up job..just so they got a reason to rinse even more cash outta these films at the box office; but then again..it was the first time i saw star wars on the big screen, which was good!

 

Right, here's my take on things:

Lucas originally wanted to 'perfect' ANH and had a whole list of improvements he wanted to make to the original films. This is a fact. When Fox saw the early improvements made to the film they were so enthusiastic that they asked George to do a similar job to ESB and ROTJ. Unfortunately, due to time constraints, George had to drop some of the planned amendments to ANH just so he could get the films out on time.

Therefore, I think it's just a matter of course that George will return to the OT once he's done and dusted with the whole saga and relaxedly tweak all six films to create one continuous whole. We already know that he's shot inserts for some of the original films during filming for AOTC (this has been reported by McCallum, I think) and I have read numerous reports that this has been the plan for some time.

As for the continuity errors - well, what do you really expect? You have to take the whole saga with a pinch of salt anyway so it's not too difficult to accept vague differences of opinion and factual content.

And, for the record, I don't really have a problem with the SEs. Yes - the Jabba, Greedo and Jabba palace scene 'improvements' don't really work. For me. But I can live with them. People who start saying that he needs to replace the Rancor with something CGI seem to miss the point. You can't irreversibly change movie history.

And another thing - I think this is a great discussion. Really considered and intelligent without any flaming. Looking forward to it continuing over the next few weeks as ITV shows the other three films...

DARK_SCORE

 

I thought the thing about filming extra scenes for ANH during AOTC had been debunked.

toochilled, care to enlighten me?

 

Ok,

In turn:

There is no Yoda / obi Wan continuity issue. Yoda trained Obi Wan, along with all the other padowans. ObiWan was then taken by QuiGonJin. Once QGJ died Yoda again becomes Obi Wan's main mentor.
It is Yoda who trained ObiWan more then anyone else.

Final Editions:

The final editions are in progress and have been for just over a year now.
Extra scenes have already been shot, even though they shall not be released until 2008. The reason for this is that the extra scenes shot contain characters that were involved in EpisodeII.
I can list scenes taht have been shot but best check it's ok with you all first since some could consider them spoiler material.

As well as the new scenes that are being filmed I understand some old scenes will be fixed too.
I do not know this for sure but I epect heavily that:
* Jabba shall remain, though he will be MUCH better. (ANH)
* Greedo will still shoot first.
* The ANH rotoscoping *amy* be fixed.
* The Rancor lines SHOULD stay.

 

does that mean that they're gonna release the SE dvds in 2005 after the saga is complete...then fob us off 3 years later with special special editions...? or is the whole OT release on dvd in 2005 a load of garbage?

 

i dont mind being spoiled, makes no difference to me....

..so, TC what are these scenes???

 

tc, give us the scenes

***ANYBODY READING TOOCHILLED'S POSTS FURTHER DOWN THIS THREAD RISKS SPOILERS FOR EP 3 AND THE SPECIAL-SPECIAL EDITIONS****

There, that oughta do it.

///drools

 

i'm curious,so...tell me,toochilled...
exactly how do you know all this stuff?
have you a hotline to 'the beard'?



if you have,can you get me a license to print limited edition artworks,please.

 

First off, J_J I find some of your questions and comments patronising. I fail to agree with either yourself or UKS on the point of Yoda training Obi-wan.

Clearly, the fact that Obi-wan doesn't mention Qui-Gon in the original trilogy is because the character didn't exist at that point! So why, when he made the prequels, did he feel it necessary to introduce the character of Qui-Gon? Why couldn't Obi-wan be trained by Yoda in Episode I? I am sure you will bombard me with a hundred reasons why

UKS, I respect your opinions as much as I respect everyone elses. I don't necessarily agree but life would be incredibly boring if we all agreed on everthing!

My problem with the Special Editions, which I have been trying to put across, is that they're a rushed job. Why return to the films unless you aim to do it properly? If Lucas had just cleaned up the existing effects (which is largely what happened in Empire) they would be fine. The additional shots and scenes were not necessary.

To throw back a point - you and J_J are surprised that I can't understand that Yoda trained Obi-wan when he was youngling. Okay, if I agree with that, then why did we need to see Vader travelling back to the Executor in Empire? Surely the audience has the IQ to understand that when Vader says in the original "Bring in my shuttle" that he is travelling back to his command ship? We don't need a scene to explicitly showing him doing this, do we?!

It does spoil the end of Empire as I explained. The end sequence doesn't work anymore because the scenes of Vader leisurely making his way back to the Executor destroy the pacing and tension. Furthermore, the music is now out of synch.

I am not saying the Special Editions are bad films. My argument is, why return to remake the SW Trilogy unless you are going to spend the time, effort and money doing it properly. The answer would be, because it makes money just to put the films out again. Cynical I know but when it comes to Lucasfilm, I think a healthy dose of cynicism is required.

UKS, you also feel that most of the problems will be fixed with a DVD release. Again, this answers my point - why were these things not amended when the SE's were released in 1997? Why do we have to have yet another version of the films?

There is a saying that if it isn't broke, don't fix it. A lesson, which I think somebody should mention to George Lucas at some point.

 

if you have,can you get me a license to print limited edition artworks,please.



You need to speak to the Babe....



..the thieving biotch .

 

"First off, J_J I find some of your questions and comments patronising. I fail to agree with either yourself or UKS on the point of Yoda training Obi-wan."

Take them however you want. Life's a bitch and then you die.