A/V STAR WARS REBELS (show's over, spoilers allowed)

Well, yeah - is anyone surprised that YouTube, Facebook and Twitter are a Tri-Hive of scum and villainy?

More seriously, it wouldn't have been helped by the rapid curtailing of TCW when it had plenty of fuel in the tank. Felt like a corporate diktat from the new owners - I wasn't that into TCW and it's axing then looked harsh to me.

 

yeah they cut down big time on the budget and animation back then and Disney + wasn’t a thing yet

And Star Wars animation I don’t think knew how to do animation on a budget compared to the eccentric billionaire show

(not to mention cable restrictions and the Tv-Y7 rating)

Those transition years...but now we have Bad Batch so it all evened out

 

Some time has passed, and I keep fond memories of Rebels. I really liked the spirit of the series, and I admit, the fact that its settled in the OT era is a big plus for me. It gave us the chance to see back some great stuff from the old EU too, like Thrawn, the Inquisitorius, the Noghri and Malachor.

Its true that the animation sometimes hindered a little the series (I mean, in a galaxy where guys like Baron Administrator Calrissian and Director Krennic wear a cape, its baffling that a man who refers himself as the Grand Inquisitor didn't get one!) and that there was a tiresome amount of comparisons with TCW and negativity at first, but I think now it easier to see both as sister series and appreciate them as such.

Personally, I would really enjoy to get to see certain Rebel characters rendition in the upcoming live action series, and the continuation of the Ezra/Sabine story is something I'm still eager to see...

 

Rebels is great. I didn't initially like the art style, which is distinct from the animation. The animation itself is incredible, unlike the early seasons of TCW where-in the characters often actually do look like marionettes. When they walk or run they look like they are floating just slightly off the floor. And there's a lot of stiffness in the mouth animations.

Rebels doesn't have that. It also benefits from being serialized form the jump, rather than anthologized.

Rebels also brought me out of my initial skepticism of losing Legends from canon. Seeing it though my kids' eyes *really* did it for me. Plus, my middle child's name is Ezra.

Ezra is far less irritating that early Ahsoka.

To top it off, Rebels has some of the best Star Wars moments of the last 6-7 years in any medium. Especially screen media.

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Rebels was what got me into SW. I grew up on TCW and love it, but it was Rebels putting Ahsoka in the end of s1 that truly made me feel like the stories were connected enough for me to want to know more about it - I watched the movies after I got into TCW, but I was never really interested in them. I still mostly follow SW through the animated shows, but I generally keep up with the wider canon.

 

I didn’t care for season 1 all that much, but of course the Ahsoka connection made me stick around for season 2 which I found to be an improvement culminating with Twilight of the Apprentice. I remember really not digging TFA and that whole direction the sequels were going, but that finale with Ahsoka v Vader, Maul’s return and new status near the OT timeline and how emotionally things ended really kept me invested in the modern SW output.

Then season 3 gets hyped at Celebration, they announced the return of Thrawn...that was huge. Rebels at that point had my interest even moreso than the films, then there was the great synergy between it and Rogue One. Season 3 ultimately didnt quite live up to my expectations, (the pacing for that season is very odd and I think Thrawn and Maul were underused) but there was a lot of good stuff. Season 4 was outright great for me and I was very satisfied with how things concluded.

The sequels weren’t my thing at all, but between Rogue One, Solo and Rebels sort of serving as a bridge between them I had my own niche in modern SW that I could really enjoy. So yeah, this series did a lot for my fandom.

 

Mauls “we could have been brothers!” may actually just be the best delivered line in Star Wars for my money.

 

And probably one of the best Thrawn moments ever

 

Loved the depiction of both Maul and Thrawn in Rebels (though Thrawn was a tad too reckless with Imperial resources at times). They just didn’t use them enough vs the random side adventures the protagonists went on with Hondo or the like.

But this is a greater Filoni thing, as shown in the Mandalorian, and he dialled it way back right in time for season 4.

 

I remember that scene very well.

Forget the past! Forget your memories! Forget your attachments!

Our futures lie in a planet with two suns. We can walk that path together! As friends! As brothers.

That last word tells us exactly who Maul sees Ezra as. The replacement for the one person he actually loved aside from his mother. The man who saved his life and rescued him from despair. The man he misses so much but will never admit to having loved.

 

I think important to note that Maul is not an ordinary Sith anyway. He's his own brand of Sith and later quasi-Sith, and his idol was Exar Kun. We also see Maul into weird things in SOLO, the Crimson Dawn uses ideology and beliefs of Light and Dark, this can be translated from the glyps. Which is representative of what Maul is, especially during the later stages of the Clone War and subsequent Dark Times.

Maul is not wholly evil for evil's sake like Sidious and Dooku, whom did not care about family at all, they murdered their own. Maul would not. There is a method to his chaos. He's still held onto his Nightbrother identity long after he became a Sith Lord, Sidious never successfully driven that from him anymore than he was successful at driving the good from Anakin. Dathomirians practice the Dark Side like no other, since they grew up steeped in its power. They use it as a tool but remain themselves - unlike the Sith. In Maul's youth he wanted to be a Jedi, but they never came instead Sidious abducted him. Maul was already too powerful for the fearful Nightsisters of Dathomir. With Maul and Anakin family is important, and its what separates them from the others.


Ezra yearned for family and a sense of belonging and revenge against the Sith whom were responsible for his parents being killed. Ezra also made the connection between the Separatists and the Empire to Rex and Kalani. Maul was playing on those feelings, and yes like Ezra lost his family to the Sith/Empire and wanted to destroy them . The cartoon at that point made it out like Ezra was Maul's last attempt for securing a lasting legacy with an apprentice and to be the one to destroy Sidious. Once Ezra refuses, Maul goes to Tatooine alone to basically let Kenobi apparently kill him. I think there was a deleted scene with an apparition ut in the desert of Savage appearing and Maul saying something like " soon brother". They have Maul basically dying knowing that Sith will be destroyed by the Chosen One that Kenobi is protecting, Luke following the OT continuity but not the ST or PT stuff. We know for a fact Maul never wanted to kill Kenobi, he said it a few times on TCW and even on Twin Suns expresses the same sentiment despite putting on a show of aggression. And Kenobi would never comfort a villain like Maul, unless he realized that Maul sacrificed himself for something greater than himself, which is not a Sith thing to do.

Son of Dathomir also established fully, why Talzin brought Maul back and Maul's own true plans and motivations, which was against Sidious. To lure him out and for both Maul and Talzin to destroy him. You get some shows of affection with Talzin and Savage, but he's really the lesser worth brother, he had to filled with power artificially, while Maul was power. Thats also why Talzin needed Maul. Maul also grows in affection towards Savage. The writers always treated Savage as an expendable asset and he comes off that way cept with Maul in-universe. Talzin also gives up her plan for absolute revenge when genuinely embraces her love for her son Maul by sacrificing herself for him and also for not murdering him for his power in the end.

Its doubtful Maul is dead, since he controlled his spirit on Naboo by using the Sith teachings of Sidious passed down from Plaguis. Dathomirians also have spirits and if the Sith of Sidious did not die by the Chosen One, then that would bring Maul back since there would be no peace for him to rest since Sidious was his true enemy. Lucas intended for Maul to live past ROTJ and be the main villain of his ST and to train Darth Talon and corrupt a Solo. Also we know the remnant of the Empire would still be a factor, very possible that a Clone of Palpatine was around. In the Darth Maul video came, Maul would've destroyed the New Empire of Darth Krayt and all his Sith.

Maul was also talking to Ezra that way was cause Maul still uses the Sith ways and plays Sith games. He sets the setting and whichever way it plays out has a plan. That also includes using himself and others as a pawns, if he dies that he's not worthy enough to have lived. Despite seemingly no longer a Sith Lord anymore, but was doing his own Sith things and there was a Light and Dark to his character and whatever he was up to which they never told us directly. He still practiced the beliefs of the Sith(and probably other groups like the Nightsisters) as he was skilled in their Magiks. He was attempting to sway Ezra to his side under free will. Once Ezra still refused and Maul's true voice and demeanor came out when he laughed and abandoned Ezra to his own devices.

When Kenobi refused to reveal himself and face Maul in the sands of Tatooine, Maul then had to resort to still bringing Ezra there, this time as bait to tempt the Jedi's noble heart and lore him out into the open. Maul saved Ezra's life a few times in that episode too, once against the Tuskens and he helped motivate the boy back to life by causing Force illusions that he killed Kenobi so Ezra would get back up and continue onward instead of dying in the desert there. Maul saved Ezra's life a few times and he made good on not directly killing his friends of Dathomir when Ezra asked Maul not to hurt possessed Kanan and he did reveal the way to defeat the Nightsisters despite the fact Maul anticipated Ezra's friends coming there and making the sacrifice as part of his initial plan with the Nightsister spirits.

With Savage , its important to remember that was initially under orders from Mother Talzin and sent on a mission to bring Maul back to Dathomir . Unknowing so both Maul and Talzin could hatch their plan of revenge against Sidious and the Sith.

The IDW comic showed that Maul attempted to get himself off of Lotho Minor way before Savage, on his own. Maul orchestrated his own capture to get a ship so he could go back to Dathomir . So it was always part of his plan to go back to Dathomir for help and restoration. It just took longer, but apparently this attempt eventually got back to Talzin.

Savage was made pretty twisted by the Nightsister magik and Dooku's Sith training did not help him. Savage attempted to defeat Maul but Maul easily defeated his Dooku trained brother, Maul considered it a lesson whereas someone like Dooku would've killed him as it not being the way of the Dark Side. Savage would be from then on retrained by Maul into a better warrior under his training where he'd even be able to hold his own against Jedi Council members and a Sith Master. Maul did that within a pretty short timeframe too, but he did it not as a brother but as his Sith master. But Savage was not like Maul, he was not a natural Force user. But we see Maul develop a certain familial affection for his brother over time. The reality was there was not much there when he first saw Savage when reawakened by Mother Talzin. Maul had to look him over and gauge his worth and pedigree. From that brief moment, it was like when Savage was reborn and killed Feral. Maul choosing not too is also cause Maul has a sense and personal code of honor and love for family, this always follows Maul along his dark way.

 

Rebels and TTT are probably so far my two favorite Thrawn appearances

So I’ll be fascinated to see how he’s used in Mandoverse

 

I liked the depiction, but I wouldn’t say it was preferable to the original stuff for me. Rebels was too small scale for that.

 

I mean fair enough but that scene I shared is probably my favorite Thrawn moment even more so than even in The original TTT and I love most Thrawn's TTT moments but something about that particular scene...IDK that's kinda like how i myself like to right Thrawn....quite villainous.

 

My favourite Thrawn line of Rebels is in the S3 finale "I'm not accepting surrenders at this time."

 

I have a few small issues with the S3 finale, but Thrawn’s lines to the Rebels and the subsequent orbital bombardment scene (the juxtaposition of Thrawn‘s triumph with Hera’s fear) were really cool.

You like that scene for different reasons than me then.

Even when in the antagonist role I think to be truthful to the character as presented in TTT he should still be presented as having depth beyond evil mastermind. And I felt that Thrawn expressing genuine regret at having to destroy Lothal and killing Sabine whilst also being absolutely willing to do so felt on point to me.

 

I always found his regret to be quite hollow in all honesty.

But i've always interpreted Thrawn as a far more villainous character and prefer him as such than others. Hence my dislike of his later appearances in things.

 

Well, let me ask you this. Outside of yourself why do you think Thrawn caught on to such an extent with the fandom?

 

He was a post Palpatine villain with a cool look and a really really smart Imperial who was a military tactician who was able to outthink his enemies and use what limited sources and almost reconquer the galaxy in the name of the Empire. Also he ruled through loyalty than through fear. But he was still very much a villain and authoritarian. And I still would argue a fascist just fascist in a sense as he saw Chiss as superior and humans inferior.

I know Thrawn has a lot of lore afterward but honestly i think the majorty of people would still only know Thrawn from the original TTT books.

Although in some cases i think Thrawn for a while sorta entered that "I know him because of the historical background and not the character himself" sorta fame like Revan or the Yuzongvon...where people know the concept but not the details or have ever read the book.

 

And yet.....the word “Chiss” is never uttered in TTT and he never displays contempt towards humans in general (mostly just C’Baoth because he’s a lunatic), so that view is kind of...off.

And within the context of that original trilogy of novels he’s shown as a character who operates under his own set of behavioural traits. Without the extra context you’ve still got a character who prefers to minimise the loss of life (both his own soldiers and civilians in the worlds he conquers.) and we’re never led to believe he’s less than genuine in his admiration of art and culture. Whether or not within the bubble of those books you believe his actions come from a place of morality, or simply because he sees people as resources and is too practical to fall into the more idiotic tropes of pointlessly cruel villainy.

Therein lies the crux of my point. Even if you discard all the other material and just focus on the original story, Thrawn as a villain behaves in a particular way. These are his character traits.

I think that scene in Rebels touches on most of his core elements in a way that stays true to his role as antagonist. Maybe he was regretful that Sabine was going die because he valued her individual life, or maybe because he loves art and he was disappointed a talented artist wasn’t going to continue making things he admires. Maybe he was regretful that he had to perform genocide because he doesn’t enjoy wholesale slaughter, or maybe it was simply because he thought it was a massive waste of resources. Whether or not you believe his motivations are moral or practical, I think moments like that are important because it’s part of what makes the character that specific character and not just any other villain.

 

Ok....But I still the scene for the reasons I said earlier.

 

Sure, I’m just saying, don’t be disappointed if you see more moments of moral ambiguity in future on screen storytelling with the character.

 

See I just don't think we'll get that though from Filoni's work....Or at least if we do it's not as overindulgent as Tim Zahn's work. Such as when they retconned Thrawn being responsible for a high amount of civilian casualties. ..That first scene where Thrawn appeared in Rebels clearly meant for Thrawn to be the reason why the casualties were high not price.

Plus I still don't see TTT Thrawn as morally ambiguous or even that scene as morally ambiguous Thrawn is still bad. Not physcho mwahaha Palpatine but i still see his as the morally in the wrong.

To me the moral ambiguity is all a facade (Even if Thrawn believes it), someone who says they are above it all when in reality they clearly aren't

 

I see him as a villain no question. That Thrawn might feel reluctance or regret, or choose to not wantonly murder civilians doesn’t change that he’s the villain who is trying to kill the protagonists of a given story. But I don’t believe all villains are the same.

And Filoni, well, this is the guy who made Darth Maul a tragic figure with profound humanity (especially in Rebels). And he’s said before that he views Thrawn’s love for culture and art as a big redeeming element of the character that several others don’t have. Don’t be surprised if he’s not blue Palpatine when you see him next.

 

I don't expect him to be Blue Palpatine but I do expect people to call him out on his BS regardless of how moral ambiguity he claims to have.

That's what I love about Ezra's part of the scene, yeah Thrawn talks about regret and what not but Ezra still knows Thrawn doesn't deserve Lothal and calls Thrawn out on it.

Also in the same episode Thrawn bombards a city of innocent civilians with pretty little to know regret in the order so I still call to question the ambiguity.