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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

A/V Star Wars: Resistance

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Ancient Whills, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    They had a plan for the trilogy- not at first, but by time they were filming TFA, TLJ was already written and DOTF was at least outlined. The connecting secondary material, like Resistance and the Galaxy's Edge storylines have pretty overt connections to those plans. It wasn't until Carrie died that those plans went out the window.

    While it may not seem so at first glance, the Sequel Trilogy technically had the most-planned-out story of the three trilogies. It's the only one to have all three films written or planned out in any concrete way before the first film was finished. The OT was improv'd and reworked multiple times, while the PT was basically bullet points at best.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2023
  2. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 10, 2002
    They did? What was the plan? This is honestly news to me.

    And they didn't let the writer/director of the 1st sequel in the trilogy in on this plan? How is that a plan?

    Seems like it went out the window well before Carrie died.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2023
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  3. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    If you mean they didn't have all 3 written and finished before filming the first movie, then you are correct. But TFA, much like ANH and TPM, where their respective sequels and trilogy enders would go was mostly up in the air. But before TFA was finished, yes, the whole trilogy very much had a plan because two movies were written and another had finished screenplay drafts, alongside TV & theme park tie-in material connecting to those plotlines.

    And, yeah, it was Carrie's death that led to them trying to reevaluate Episode IX, since Episode IX was supposed to be "the Leia movie" as TFA was for Han and TLJ was for Luke. Not having access to Carrie led to Trevorrow's frustrations in how to reapproach the story in a way that was satisfactory to all parties involved. Then the Book of Henry got blasted and he left the project.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2023
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  4. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 10, 2002
    What was this plan? I'm genuinely super curious. And they didn't let Rian in in this plan...or they didn't have the plan until after who started...or something.

    My understanding was they passed the baton to each writer/director for each movie. I think JJ has spoken to this a ton.
     
  5. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Yes, at first- but by the point we are talking about, an overall plan had formed for the trilogy as all of the projects were coordinating overlapping development at one level or another. TFA was finished/filming, TLJ was written to pick up where it left off (and literally had to begin filming at the same time as TFA for the scenes on the island). So, at that point in filming, the opening directions of the trilogy were set in stone. And they already had completed drafts of DOTF to wrap up those directions. And it is at this time that tie-in projects began to explore the timeframe between the start and planned-end of the trilogy, such as RES and GE.

    So, for instance, you have character arcs like Finn leading a stormtrooper rebellion that began in TLJ (although cut from the final film), which ties into Rise of the Resistance, and subplots like the First Order's search for Force artifacts in RES Season 2 intending to setup Hux's obsession with them.

    The loss of other threads set up in TFA & TLJ (like the overall trilogy theme Rey having to find a path between the light and dark, adherring to or destroying the old, ghost Luke messing with an irredeemable Kylo, etc) make it less obvious in hindsight with the loss of those originally planned conclusions. But, if you want to look at it this way, in broad strokes, TFA was about revering the past and the failures of that approach, TLJ was about killing the past and the failures of that approach, and DOTF was to be about finding a new path that is neither one of those options.

    And it is in that context that RES was produced and, ultimately, ended when those plans fell apart and stalled.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2023
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  6. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 10, 2002
    I think that's...not accurate? Where can I find this info?

    *Edit: Or I'm just not following well what you're saying. I mean, I followed this stuff as closely as everyone as it was happening.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2023
  7. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Depends on what info? TLJ filming at the same time as TFA is in various documentaries (definitely the TLJ one for certain) and other written sources (and you can also deduce it simply based on the fact that the movies were released 2 years apart, which means pre-production, production and post-production phases all had to overlap).

    EDIT- gonna tag this to make it collapsible, as it ran a little long.

    Looking up specific dates, TFA's island filming that overlapped with TLJ was at the end of July in 2014, while TLJ's main production began about a year later in Sept 2015 and finished at the end of July 2016. So, when you watch TLJ, you can tell the difference between the shoots based on how toned Daisy looks in the early island scenes (she looks a little softer and younger as she did in TFA in some shots before her TLJ training and slight aging for the rest of the TLJ shoot). This is also why Artoo is with Rey on the island instead of BB-8- because Rian made that request while filming to align with the story plans for TLJ.

    Trevorrow was announced as Episode IX director in August 2015. He also made a request to Rian to shoot an extra scene that would set up a subplot for DOTF (Rey and Poe meeting each other). So, at that point during TLJ filming, there was already some form of approved outline or concept for how DOTF would go and how the trilogy would end.

    The Duel of the Fates draft leaked online is dated December 2016 (about 1.5 weeks before Carrie's death). I don't know what draft number that is (there were reported to be at least two). But that timing would indicate that at least one final outline, if not an actual finished draft, of DOTF was finished by time TLJ had finished initial filming and was in post-production (and/or filming pick-ups & reshoots).

    However, since there is a potential gap there, it's possible I may have been mistaken in saying DOTF was written while TLJ was still filming. But an outline is still almost certain. So, it would make the ST at least as planned out as the OT in that regard.

    Resistance has some overlap, but this is where it rectifies with the "2 season plan" comments: Earliest development of RES was likely in the fall of 2016, and active development had begun by mid/late 2017. So, when they began working on the series, TLJ wasn't yet locked and DOTF was still planned out but unfinished. Which is why the first season focuses so heavily on building up to TFA events only. And why they began with only a 2-season plan.

    And that is why it wasn't until Season 2 that they were able to work in TLJ and DOTF references. And, as Trevorrow didn't leave DOTF/wasn't replaced with JJ until Sept 2017, that is where the hiccup in story direction and animation lead time basically meant they couldn't move forward with any more seasons.

    Meanwhile, Rise of the Resistance's storyline was officially locked in sometime before Nov 2018- but, given how long it takes to plan, design and build such a complex attraction (and it's role as the centerpiece of the entire GE land), it definitely had to have been written long before that (give or take minor adjustments).
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2023
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  8. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 10, 2002
    I was aware of overlaping filming and that type of thing. I wonder if we're talking about different things? Just because three different director-writers picked up the baton and carried on their story after the last story last doesn't really seem to constitute a plan (at least how I'm thinking about it) and I think speaks for the disconnect that we as consumers experienced.
     
  9. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    We might be talking about different things. Perhaps different levels of planning? I was trying to focus on where things were when RES (and ROTR) was being made- and at that time they were just on the final edge of the timeframe when there was an overall storyline plan for the trilogy. And the abandonment of that plan for the trilogy contributed to RES's discontinuation (via production lead times).

    So, yeah, if you're talking about having a trilogy outline with a story endpoint in mind by time TFA rolled cameras, then, no, there was no plan at that point (outside of maybe the vague "7 Han, 8 Luke, 9 Leia" notion). But if you're talking about having a trilogy outline and overall direction for the story before the trilogy is half-produced, then, yes, they did have one.

    So, that would equate the ST to the OT (no specific endpoint or direction after 1st movie, then an outline for the story direction made during the 2nd film that was abandoned when they made the final version of the 3rd movie). Or, potentially, a slight advantage to the ST over the OT, depending on final overlapping timing, etc.

    Meanwhile the PT is sort of inverted- only having an endpoint for the final film, but no specific story notions of how the first two stories would go.
     
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  10. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 10, 2002
    Yes, I'm speaking to no plan going in. I realize there was a plan...eventually. But the approach was...I'll hand it off to the next person to continue the story with some of my ideas to where I was thinking it could go. And Rian was basically like...yeah, that's great, but I'm doing this instead.

    TLJ is actually a good film. But a crappy follow up the TLJ.

    The problem is different visions. There needed to be someone managing a vision and the general sequel trilogy story.

    Lucas had a vision, even if how he got there evolved as the story evolved. He had specific beats he wanted to address. He killed Kenobi because he has no idea if there'd be a sequel...so in Empire, he created Yoda for that role.

    The ST was very fractured. And the end to that trilogy (and also the end of a 9 movie saga) sucked.

    I won't even get to that there was no plan to how the universe got to TFA. Just like every story in the ST, they left it to others to figure out.

    I honestly can't think of a more fractured story movie series. LOTF and FOTJ, which people where also not thrilled at the fractured mature because several different authors, were both more coherent. They drafted the general direction together.

    Abrams spoke to this very notion I am getting at jus a couple years ago*: "Having a plan...is the most critical thing, because otherwise you don’t know what you’re setting up. You don’t know what to emphasize. Because if you don’t know the inevitable of the story, you’re just as good as your last sequence or effect or joke or whatever, but you want to be leading to something inevitable.” I think that sums up the ST pretty well.

    *source: https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a36545784/jj-abrams-star-wars-plan/

    The whole thing was botched, IMO. And even TFA, which I loved, is lessened for me...knowing what came after.
     
  11. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Well, not to go on too much of a tangent, but that seems to me like it's mainly JJ's approach at fault there. Or, at least, a combination of his tendency of not wanting to answer his mystery boxes and the general reluctance to bog TFA down with political exposition that the prequels had (for which they clearly overcompensated for).

    Assuming my correction of your typo is correct, I would disagree- they feel like two halves of the same story to me. With each other balancing out the pros of cons of the other. And that dichotomy between them is what led to the vision of what the ST would have become- and they wouldn't have gotten there without that approach.

    Yes and no. He had ideas left over from his early drafts, but nothing unifying. Not knowing that Vader would be Anakin, or that Leia would be Luke's sister, etc are pretty radical alterations to the OT's story and progression. It's easy to forget how many different directions the story could have gone after ANH (the only other time SW had so many story direction possibilities was after TLJ) and how much of what the story of the OT ultimately became (specifically the redemption of Anakin) was the result of third-film-decisions not made in advance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2023
  12. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 10, 2002
    Seems like a lot of heavy lifting you're doing.

    I am not seeing what you are seeing. Or maybe I'm still not understanding your point.
     
  13. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    My first and middle statements above are mainly just opinion/observation, other than the existing approach with the differences between TFA & TLJ resulting in the emergence of the overall theme/story that DOTF would have brought. The last statement's point is that Lucas's vision for the story was extremely fluid and did not have an overall plan ahead of time (even with something as fundamental as the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker). And that fluidity isn't all that different from how the ST approached itself.

    So I think folks may be trying to hold the ST to a standard and expectation that never really existed for Star Wars. Star Wars isn't Babylon 5, Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, Avatar or even the MCU.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2023
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  14. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2015
    The highly planned-out MCU was really what skewed expectations for the ST in this regard, I think. I also think TLJ's penchant for - am I allowed to use the term yet? - "subverting expectations" contributed to the illusion of less planning between TFA and TLJ than there actually was. TLJ did its job almost too well in that sense.
     
  15. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    I think the one where there was no plan was ROS. I think JJ just went and did his own thing. Which you kinda had to at least to an extent with Fisher gone.
     
  16. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 21, 2014
    I think when you take over a property like Star Wars then announce a new trilogy there should have been a significant amount of planning involved. Not necessarily having all 3 scripts completely written and ready to film. But to set up your plot for the whole trilogy and break it down to what is going to go on in each movie. After you have that set then you write the script for the first movie. There may have to be adjustments because you have no idea what it going to happen in real life with the actors.
     
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  17. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 10, 2002
    That's the situation he was put into. I'm not defending him or that movie, but they started from scratch with that movie fairly late.
     
  18. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

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    Jun 29, 2003
    So about that...
     
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  19. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Resistance is the key to all of this
     
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  20. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 10, 2002
    Without a doubt...
     
  21. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 10, 2005
    But seriously, where is my Resistance tie in game where you can play as all of ace squadron?

    Someone should get on that.
     
  22. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Is it just me or have I always thought Kaz’s dad was an imperial sympathizer? In resistance it’s very convenient for him to be off his home planet when it explodes almost like he had advance warning
     
  23. Soontir-Fel

    Soontir-Fel Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 18, 2001
    He's not a sympathizer he's just a "let's move on" coward. Just like during reconstruction
     
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  24. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Ah the best type of politician.
     
  25. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 14, 2006
    It's clear the Senator is neutralist to the maximum. And it means he'll use any method necessary to stay that way. I can only imagine the fights he had with Mon Mothma, the succeeding chancellors, Leia Organa, Amilyn Holdo and others.
     
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