Official Info Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep. VIII) - December 15, 2017

Discussion in 'Star Wars: New Films - No Spoilers Allowed' started by EHT, Mar 12, 2015.

  1. Ghost_Jedi

    Ghost_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Sep 27, 2003
    Very interesting that in one of the press releases, they refer to it as the latest Skywalker Saga. Is that a hint to Rey's lineage?

    For the majority of fans, who are not uber-obsesses, will not be an issue.
  2. woj101

    woj101 Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Feb 19, 2000
    My current prediction that's just sprung to mind, based on that we know the film starts with Luke, who at the start of the film, is 'the' last Jedi:

    Luke will be very reluctant to train Rey and won't accompany her in the 2nd part of the film. In the 3rd part everything will be tinkering on the edge of disaster when in sweeps Luke to save the day.
  3. woj101

    woj101 Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Feb 19, 2000

    To me it seems much more to be a big hint that Disney are planning to make some more Star Wars 'sagas', so they've started labelling this one the Skywalker saga (because it obviously is the Skywalker saga :) ).
    Dak Oolron likes this.
  4. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Sep 20, 2002
    Yes it was. I looked up how long it was between title announcement and teaser; the title for TFA was announced when they finished shooting on November 6, 2014, then the first teaser was released on November 28. 22 days.
    So maybe a teaser for TLJ around February 14? ;)

    I still find it crazy that we live in a world where Star Wars Episode 8 just got a title! I haven't gotten used to there being an Episode 7 yet! :p

    Anyway, Rian Johnson posted a picture on Instagram of the title in the opening crawl. I tried to link to it (and post a screenshot of it), but for some reason the forum won't cooperate with me today. You can find it here:
  5. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Mar 10, 2005
    I really hope the title means what it says. If this trilogy shows us the true end of the Jedi, then that's a hugely significant development that warrants its own title.
    If, however, it's just a case of stating that this will be a movie with a large focus on the last Jedi so far, then it's pretty lame, IMO.

    The end of the Jedi would likely mean that Luke and/or Rey adopt their own take on light side philosophy - or perhaps a sort of middle path philosophy. They'll recognize the need for progression, based on the failures of the Jedi Orders. They'll adapt to the current needs of the galaxy and, in doing so, cease to be Jedi. Or perhaps you could say that they'll be Jedi - and more.
    They'll be... Knights of Bendu ;)

    Yoda didn't know how right he was when he said to Luke: "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be".

    ...or DID he???

    EDIT: It's quite possible, of course, that it'll be about Rey and Kylo finding a middle ground and giving "Ren" a new meaning...
    ...which would make the use of the Confucian term Ren really appropriate :)
  6. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Sep 20, 2002
    Interestingly enough, "ren" means "clean" in Swedish.
    Well, it can also mean "reindeer" :p

    Anyway, I sincerly hope The Last Jedi/Ep9 isn't about the end of the Jedi. I want the Jedi Order to once again prosper, and the Jedi to resume their role as guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy.
    TheOneX_Eleazar likes this.
  7. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Mar 10, 2005
    That would make the title false and pointless, from my point of view

    Interesting thoughts about Ren :)
  8. Big Bad Yoda Daddy

    Big Bad Yoda Daddy Force Ghost star 4

    Mar 8, 2000
    "Luke was training a new generation of Jedi."
    "Luke's a Jedi."
    "The Force, the Jedi, it's true."
    "The new Jedi will rise."
    "He was looking for the first Jedi temple."

    I mean, that's just off the top of my head. They are REALLY hitting the idea of a new Jedi Order HARD. Know why? Because, next to Star Wars, Jedi is the next biggest brand that Disney just paid for. There is no way they start a new light side faction called something else. Maybe they change what it means to be a Jedi - change the code somehow - but the name? That's there to stay. The Sith are easier to knock out - they were never mentioned by name in the OT, the audience saw them die, they can go away and get replaced by the Knights of Ren.

    That doesn't remove any of the gravitas of the title though. Luke IS the Last Jedi, they never say he always will be. The Kanan comic was called "The Last Padawan," but it's not like there were never any new ones after him.
  9. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Sep 20, 2002
    I don't agree there. Luke is the last Jedi by the time of TFA and (at least the first part of) TLJ. The Last Remaining Jedi at the time. Not necessarily The Last Jedi Ever.

    I don't think the Jedi need to go away for the title to be honest - it adds urgency to Rey's story though (actually the story of the galaxy as a whole); she needs to become a Jedi too, or the order will die with Luke.
    The more I think about the title, the more I like it. But I really, really hope Luke doesn't kick the bucket in the film though.

    But to each their own :)
    Sarge likes this.
  10. Jedi_Jade-Skywalker

    Jedi_Jade-Skywalker Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Oct 8, 2000
    So, now that I've had some time to digest this (aka stop having a fangirl freak out)...I have a couple thoughts.

    In TFA, it seems that the "Awakening" is really referring to Rey. And Kylo too, in part (jury's still out on Finn imo). Her awakening to her Force potential leads Rey to Luke, the Last Jedi. Plus both Snoke & Kylo seem really freaked out about what'll happen if Luke is found and chooses to take action. Which leads me to believe that Luke has a very significant role to play in TLJ. I also really don't see this as being the end of the Jedi Order. I think Luke is trying to figure out how to fix whatever mistakes he made. It just isn't Star Wars anymore if the Jedi are all gone. Like Big Bad Yoda Daddy said, Disney has too much invested in Jedi to wipe them all out.

    I really don't think we can assume anything about Luke dying or not. Yes, I know both Obi Wan and Yoda were Jedi Masters in the OT and they died. But there's a couple issues with killing Luke off. First is that, as far as we know, he's the only one who can rebuild the Jedi Order. Aside from defeating the Emperor and Vader, he was tasked with passing on what he learned. And just Rey isn't enough. Then there's also the whole money thing again. There's just so much built up expectation to see Luke Skywalker again. Killing him off in Ep 8 risks alienating fans and will cut into their profits more than if he's also in Ep 9. Especially now that we don't know how/if Leia can be in Ep 9. After all, Disney is all about the $$$$.

    Snoke says "If Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise". So Skywalker (aka the Last Jedi trained by the Old Jedi Order) needs to return so a new Jedi order. Seems to me like "Jedi" is plural in Snoke's statement.

    I also have a few thoughts on the red font. I'm not sure how much to really read into that. Yes, ROTS was in red and so was ROTJ in some versions. But "Star Wars" is in red on the original ESB novelization. Even still, those movies all involve pivotal moments in Luke's life (Anakin's fall/Padme's death/separation from Leia, finding out his father's true identify and finally resisting the Dark Side and redeeming his father). Maybe TLJ will feature events that are important to Luke's life. it December 15 yet?
    TCF-1138 likes this.
  11. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Sep 20, 2002
    The more I think about it, the more I'm doubting that Luke will die in TLJ.

    It seems that with everyone assuming he'll bite it in 8, it would be a bigger shocker to not kill him.
    I would be OK with that!

    I also had this thought: what if "The Last Jedi" doesn't just refer to Luke (or Luke and Rey, or just Rey) - what if Luke is not alone on the island? Maybe he's been training Jedi in secret. I doubt this, but it's an interesting idea.
  12. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Mar 10, 2005
    Nope, nay, nix. The Jedi have to end or the title is hollow.

    The same goes for the trilogy. If it ends with a new return of the Jedi and a new return of democracy, then what was the point of making it, aside from making a huge profit?
    Plotwise, it would bring us back to the end of ROTJ, making this entire trilogy a completely unnecessary extension of that ending. Entertaining, yes, but devoid of a deeper purpose.
  13. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Jul 22, 2004
    It's an interesting title, but it's implications can point in a myriad directions. There's now way to label it false, or misleading, one way or another at this point. We have absolutely no context.

    I too am beginning to wonder if they're going to phase out the Jedi with Luke and allow Rey to become something entirely different? What if she ultimately rejects the Jedi path it's assumed she'll adapt?

    A this point they've removed the Sith and The Empire, at least superficially; lets be honest, they've found a way to have their cake and eat it too. Perhaps they'll follow that with the Jedi? Even Rey's parentage? A way to appear to move forward while still effectively remaining largely the same.
    Lulu Mars likes this.
  14. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Mar 10, 2005
    Another point: We might see the end of the Jedi in this trilogy, but that doesn't mean a fourth trilogy can't bring them back. It would just mean that Luke - or Rey - will be the end of the Jedi line that stretches back to the genesis of the old order. A new Jedi line can start with the next generation.

    If the Jedi end because Rey chooses to be something else, then the end would be more of a voluntary choice than the gruesome murder of the Jedi Order in ROTS. I'd like that. It'd be an interesting, alternative/inverted take on the Jedi Purge.
    jaqen likes this.
  15. Big Bad Yoda Daddy

    Big Bad Yoda Daddy Force Ghost star 4

    Mar 8, 2000

    Well, I mean, they COULD do that, but then

    I think you've decided that you like the idea of the Jedi ending, and so you're defending that idea with your fingers in your ears. If the title was "The Last Jedi FOREVER (or at least this trilogy)" then you'd have a point. But it's not. The other day, I ate the last oreo. It was the only one in my house. I ate it. Miraculously, my wife bought more. That doesn't mean that the oreo I ate wasn't the last one at the time.
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  16. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

    Nov 10, 2014
    322 days! :3
    Jar-Jar Binks and Lulu Mars like this.
  17. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Mar 10, 2005
    Big Bad Yoda Daddy: My points do not contradict each other. I'm saying that the Jedi should be gone by the end of this trilogy and that they can still reemerge in the future.

    It's not about me liking the idea of the Jedi ending. It's about "The Last Jedi" being a really, really crappy title for EpVIII if it turns out that we won't be seeing an end to the Jedi in this trilogy, because then it's a really, really unnecessarily jarring title since it, unnecessarily, breaks an established pattern in not one, not two, but THREE ways (which can be stretched to four if you'd like to).

    If, however, this trilogy will bring an end to the Jedi, then the title is warranted, because that would be a hugely significant event.

    Please don't patronize me again.
  18. Big Bad Yoda Daddy

    Big Bad Yoda Daddy Force Ghost star 4

    Mar 8, 2000

    But as EVERYONE has pointed out, Luke is the last Jedi. If he plays a major role in the movie, then the title is warranted. You're projecting what you want to happen onto the title so that it makes sense to you. There is absolutely nothing in the title that says he's going to stay the last Jedi. Of course, your points absolutely do contradict himself, because you latch onto Luke being unsuccessful in bringing back the Jedi and then say it can now no longer happen in this trilogy because of reasons. But the next trilogy? That's somehow fine? Because... well, it is?

    Also, there are two trilogies. The "pattern" is the highest form of straw grasping. Is there a little parallelism? Sure. I could point out that TFA broke the "pattern," but since it's three words, no one cried about it. There was no reason to expect that new directors would shoe-horn in a fourth word to the title, and even less reason to get upset about it.
  19. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Mar 10, 2005

    TFA didn't break the pattern.
    You're the one grasping at straws and projecting opinions onto me that you seem to desperately want me to have.

    No, the title is not warranted just because Luke plays a major role in the movie. It would be equivalent to calling ROTS "The Sith Lord", or ANH "The Crazy Old Hermit", or TPM "The Maverick Jedi". It says something about who will be in the movie, but nothing about the story.
    Obviously, that's another pattern: The titles describe significant events/developments/occurrences.
    If "The Last Jedi" is not a reference to a significant development in the trilogy, then it's a blatant case of LFL crapping all over GL's legacy.

    And you refusing to concede that there's a pattern doesn't make it less real. There are several patterns, in fact.
    You seem quite in love with the idea that they aren't there, though, so let's just drop this.
  20. Big Bad Yoda Daddy

    Big Bad Yoda Daddy Force Ghost star 4

    Mar 8, 2000
    Or the equivalent of calling Episode I "The Phantom Menace" (Palpatine,) Episode IV "A New Hope" (Luke,) or Episode VI "Return of the Jedi" (Anakin)? The only thing TFA has in common with the TPM and ANH is three words and an article. No adjective present, but I'm sure you have a handy retcon for why it fits anyway. Your significant development could easily be the last Jedi making more and thus changing the status quo. Keep your hyperbole to yourself.
  21. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Sep 20, 2002
    How so? I agree that there is a pattern to the titles, but I fail to see how breaking the pattern is "crapping all over GL's legacy".
  22. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Mar 10, 2005
    Well, it's not crapping all over it as much as putting "Star Wars" on the next Marvel movie would be, but I still think it would be crapping all over it, even if it would be just a thin layer of crap.
    You see, the patterns evident in GL's titles are clearly important to him. That's why they're there.
    It's typical of him to be concerned with details like that, to repeat, invert and mix things up in ways that create an intricate wickerwork, so to speak, of themes and symbolism. I guess he gets a kick out of having it all wrapped up in a neat, consistent package (hence the myriad of alterations that have been made over the years).

    Let's have a look at the title patterns, shall we?

    1) The first, most obvious and least important one is the number of words: 3-4-4, 3-4-4. It makes for a nice wave motion, but could be broken without disrupting the bigger picture too much.
    Personally, I'm not bugged by The Last Jedi in this regard.

    2) Moving on to another interesting detail that's also of little real importance; The first initials:

    The Phantom Menace
    Attack of the Clones
    Revenge of the Sith

    A New Hope
    The Empire Strikes Back
    Return of the Jedi

    T-A-R, A-T-R. Beginning the episode titles of each trilogy with "T", "A" and "R" was probably just a fun little detail for George. Not essential, but satisfying. And yes, I am SURE that he was aware of this when he came up with the titles for Anakin's Trilogy. Again, his sense for details...

    It's also worth noting that no consecutive episodes begin with the same letter.
    TLJ certainly broke that pattern, but that shouldn't be a big deal if the title is otherwise too excellent to ditch. It's more jarring, then, that it actually begins with the same word as TFA, but again, that's fine - as long as EpIX's title begins with a different word and letter.

    3) Now, we get to the real meat: the actual content. What are the titles about?

    Each trilogy begins rather mysteriously: The Phantom Menace - A New Hope. What is this menace? What's the nature of the new hope? Slightly indistinct titles with a foreboding/hopeful feel.

    The middle part of each trilogy is a war title: Attack of the Clones - The Empire Strikes Back. Both of them are about an army attacking. Straightforward action titles to get your blood pumping the way only an old-fashioned matinee adventure can.

    The closing act of each trilogy focuses on Force users: Revenge of the Sith - Return of the Jedi. Finally, we're taken to the core of Star Wars: the balance of the Force, the struggle between light and dark. This is the great showdown between good and evil that will decide the fate of the galaxy.

    You'll also notice that the third title gives more meaning to the first one. The menace was the Sith and the revenge they were planning. The hope was a hope for the return of the Jedi - among other things.
    The Force Awakens follows this pattern. Okay, it's slightly more distinct than TPM and ANH since it mentions the Force, but it's still quite vague. The Force awakens, but what does that mean exactly? So, pattern intact.
    The Last Jedi, on the other hand, skips the war business and goes straight to the core of the Star Wars mythos. This in itself isn't really that disturbing, especially since we don't know what EpIX's title will be and how that will relate to the others. Maybe this trilogy switches things around a bit? Maybe EpIX will have a title that's more focused on war but with such huge implications that it just has to be the title of the closing chapter?
    Your guess is as good as mine. I would find that refreshing and in keeping with GL's patterns, though.

    4) The next pattern is also quite obvious when you think about it: The superficial back-and-forth between good and evil. I say "superficial" because in hindsight, we do of course know that the clones, who represent the good guys, ultimately work for the bad guys (Since they themselves don't know this, however, I think it's safe to consider them good guys anyway).

    The Phantom Menace - BAD GUYS
    Attack of the Clones - GOOD GUYS
    Revenge of the Sith - BAD GUYS
    A New Hope - GOOD GUYS
    The Empire Strikes Back - BAD GUYS
    Return of the Jedi - GOOD GUYS

    A balance between dark side titles and light side titles.
    Interestingly enough, the titles of the third trilogy have taken on more neutral meanings. The Force Awakens - Potentially good/bad news for anyone. The Last Jedi - No description of an event, just a statement: The Jedi in this movie is/are the last. Whether that's bad or good is anyone's guess, really.
    This is something that I feel is appropriate. Especially if we view the Saga as a trilogy of trilogies (which, for now, it is).

    5) Then, there's the most golden of rules: Aside from articles and prepositions, no words are repeated.
    Every single noun, adjective and verb is unique to the title it appears in.
    Herein lies the great, potential, offense. Not only does The Last Jedi repeat a key word from another title, but it actually repeats THE word, JEDI, from just 2 episodes prior!
    This unbalances the titles so severely that I just HAVE to assume that the title truly means what it says; that the Jedi will be gone before this trilogy ends. That's the only way it can possibly be justified in my eyes.

    By itself, it's a really cool title. "The Last Jedi" - It sounds awesome. But if it's used just to tell us that it's about Luke, as early as EpVIII, well, then we're dealing with a pure cash grab.
    THAT's how it would be a case of crapping all over GL's legacy.
  23. PaulWrightyThen

    PaulWrightyThen Jedi Knight star 2

    Jan 11, 2016
    Er... I just think it's a cool sounding name and it gets me kinda hyped for the movie. I think reading into stuff like consecutive movie titles and what the first letters are is just... er... fine. You know, for someone else. Who isn't me. As long as the movie is good. Who cares? Trashy pulp space movie remember? Be fun. Be exciting. Fill me up with cod philosophy. Call it what it ever you want RiJo.

    Space Film The Movie​
    Sarge, Force Smuggler and Lulu Mars like this.
  24. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Mar 10, 2005
    I want you to know that I love your attitude toward different perspectives :)

    I feel I should mention, though, that I've done some more thinking and brooding and breathing now.
    I know I might be coming off as upset over this. Really, that's not the case. I'm patiently awaiting the completion of the trilogy to see where things are really headed. I'm not into jumping to conclusions, as that tends to do more harm than good.

    ...and I'm actually warming up to the prospect of things not turning out the way I've stated they should.
    It's been a hard title for me to adapt to, but I'm getting there!

    I am hoping for a surprising turn of events, however! I'm hoping that at the end of this trilogy, things will have changed drastically from the end of the last one. In some way(s), they really should. Every new trilogy should bring about change.
    PaulWrightyThen likes this.
  25. TheOneX_Eleazar

    TheOneX_Eleazar Jedi Knight star 4

    Oct 24, 2013
    I don't like this title. It is a subjective opinion that has no affect on how much I'll enjoy the movie. Just wish it continued with the pattern. It follows the A New Hope and The Phantom Menace pattern.