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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

A/V Star Wars: Visions (Spoilers in Spoiler TAGS please)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Ancient Whills, Aug 17, 2021.

  1. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2016
    The sentiment I'm picking up on from some people (here and elsewhere) is that by making Visions shorts canon then there is a higher chance of getting continuations and references in other material. It's a situation where making something canon is a shortcut for developing continuity.
     
  2. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    We have the upcoming book named Ronin expanding on “The Duel” world and talks of season 2 of Visions. Looks like there isn’t a need to make Visions canon to expand Visions lore.

    And Jedi Ben, people who agree with BobaMatts position do want it to become canon.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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  3. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    With Lucasfilm having been unusually straightforward about the non-canon status of Visions material, my impression has been that most of this is more about "headcanoning" rather than actual canonization.
     
  4. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    You or BM will have to remind of that position.

    For myself, I find the canon aspect a distraction away from talking about about the actual product.
     
  5. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Unfortunately i think it's a product of the times with both companies and culture pushing it forward.

    Like the whole Marvel thing, they like marvel movies that connect

    With Star Wars it's sorta the same thing, it's less talking about the story and more "How will it connect to everything else"
     
  6. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Yeah, but Visions has been marketed as something entirely standalone.
     
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  7. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Thankfully from a market standpoint yes. So this time I won't blame the company for being out front and saying "This is not canon"

    I will though still say that the Fan culture element of this still is a issue because i think that because of marketing that we have internalized the idea that "If it doesn't connect it doesn't matter" so it's sorta we as fans have to get out of that mentality too.

    Otherwise half of this form wouldn't be talking about "Canon" at the moment if it was a 100% marketing thing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2021
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  8. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    The Elder

    Good episode, had a very menacing vibe, slow burn horror movie and great English voice cast. I'd love to see this one spun off into a series delving more into who exactly the Elder was. I mean he did literally get turned into a pile of charcoal at the end there. So he could be Sith or not a Sith, I did like how it was kept ambiguous.
     
  9. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    The canon obsession is a thing, but I think at the end of the day most people just watched Visions and either liked it or didn’t like based purely on the artistry on display.

    I’ll say this though, some of the shorts here, if expanded into full series, could potentially be better than canon works.
     
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  10. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Honestly i think it's less a issue of Canon/Not Canon and more ....If Star Wars is gonna let more projects be as creatively stylized as visions.

    You can have a canon story and have it be just as artistic as Visions if your not trying to create a certain mold for "Canon" stories.
     
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  11. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    I don’t think they will, personally. Not when the ST/RO/Solo/Mando are the primary examples of what’s on offer for modern Star Wars, which very much tries to create a cinematic language around “classic Star Wars”, with some Prequel stuff for flourish.

    But I also don’t care. My favourite episode of Visions was the Village Bride, and that could easily be canon or non canon. It doesn’t matter, it’s good because of the artistry not because of the Star Wars connection.
     
  12. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    I mean I think the stories are fine whether they're canon or not, but I could just as easily wonder at why it's so important to you that they all not be canon.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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  13. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    It tends to happen a lot for DC and Marvel comics. SW hasn't, for those on-board already and buying stuff as it comes out, been at that level until relatively recently.

    It tends to work in relation to income. You want to buy 10 out of 50 comics released by Marvel but you have the funds for 5. What do you do? If you care about the wider continuiy, you go for the books that have the bigger continuity impact over those that don't.

    Where this all changes is when streaming provision enters the picture. Before trying out TCW or Visions would have cost far more than £8 a month for one month of access to all of it.
     
  14. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Oh i mean yeah streaming changed the name of the game. If anything i say streaming gives them more leeway to make things more interconnected. So long as it's all accessible on your streaming service you can connect 5 different shows to make one cohesive story
     
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  15. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    The challenge then becomes how to ensure the pieces are good on their own while connecting.

    In MCU film/tv film looks to be the senior partner as it were. So it is likely Cap 4 will not require you to have watched the Cap and Winter Soldier mini. Ditto the Strange 2 film in relation to WandaVision. Plus whatever the Loki series connects to at the film level.

    Problem for me is that structure limits and holds back the TV pieces, which appear as more obvious baton passes and less as good stories in their own right. So far What If has been the best series for me.
     
  16. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    That’s the struggle with the MCU in general. It’s successful, but it’s formulaic and often comes down to a film or television series being an ad for what comes next moreso than a proper standalone work.
     
  17. SWpants

    SWpants Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Lop and Ochô

    Oh hey, it’s a Space Rabbit. If only she were green. *sigh*

    Ochô is annoying as a little kid, and is as annoying as an adult. That ropey thing on her back is also strange as all get-out.

    Emo!Imperial Officer is bloody weird. Kriffing crazy.
    Also crazy? Ochô cutting her hair with a knife like that and having it be perfectly straight. That doesn’t happen IRL! :p
    It is extremely odd when she’s angry and says “Papa.”

    I like the story of the Jedi and absolutely love the hilt.

    I like the art, including the coloring—the Star Destroyer in particular is done extremely well. I just feel the story fell a little flat for me. I’d probably enjoy it more if I was younger. Mediocre for my personal tastes at best, but I recognize how it’d be considered good.

    Especially with that end! If nothing else, the end really sells how sobering it all is.
     
  18. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    I'm telling y'all, that story is Alita: Battle Angel with a Lepi!
     
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  19. R4-D4

    R4-D4 Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2003
    The quality storytelling of Visions is way better than a lot of official canon stories of late that are often lazy or uninspired. Also most episodes for the most part can easily fit into canon. Also They never officially labeled it non canon. They just said directors had freedom to do whatever. A lot of these Visions tales are more plausible than everything coming out of IDW comics, and those are 100% canon. Why can’t this? Its not parody level Infinities. The fans seem to want Visions to be canon, it really makes no sense for it to not be canon. If it fits already and the stories are loved, why hold back?
     
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  20. R4-D4

    R4-D4 Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2003
    if From a Certain Point of View novels can be canon despite all the discrepancies they present, then why should Visions be excluded from canon? They never even directly declared it ‘not canon’
     
  21. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    The FACPOV books aren't fully canon. And Visions itself has indeed, in the most direct language Lucasfilm has ever employed on the subject (which isn't very direct, but that's how Lucasfilm rolls), been labeled non-canon. You're welcome to headcanon it as much as you want, obviously, and their status could change down the road at some point... but that's how it is at the moment.
     
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  22. R4-D4

    R4-D4 Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2003
    Saying they’re letting directors have the freedom is same what they said of the FACPOV books. Its definetly not the same as saying its not canon. They just rather not say. Meanwhile Legend were clearly labeled non canon.
     
  23. R4-D4

    R4-D4 Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2003
    Basically after declaring Old EU non canon Legends, they took a neutral stance where they don’t even mention canon any longer. How would a ambiguous stance like that mean dor sure its not canon. Disney SW seems not to even care about the matter any longer
     
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  24. TalonCard

    TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff star 5 VIP

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2001
  25. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    You are correct in that in many cases Lucasfilm, given the opportunity, will go to the ends of the Earth to avoid straightforwardly answering questions about canonicity. This has given rise to what I call the Canon Rule of Thumb, which goes something like this: if something is canon, Story Group (Pablo, Matt, etc) will explicitly tell you it is canon. If it is not canon, Story Group will do everything but explicitly tell you it is not canon. Or to put it more succinctly, if they don't answer the question with a straightforward "yes," treat the answer as a straightforward "no."

    In the case of Visions, "without a need to tie into the larger chronology" is as close as I've ever seen to a "no" on the question of canonicity. Nevertheless, again, headcanon is a thing, and the future is always in motion, and all that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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