Superman: the original movies

Most likely some flight scenes and a couple pick up shots that Reeve never got to do, once the switch over from Donner to Lester happened.

 

I love the first two, and naturally the second two I will never pick up again.

BTW, question: in the past, I heard that Returns is based on I and II, but recently I heard that it just is based on I, as it retcons the others. Which one is it? Either way, II is good enough to be included in my "Ultimate Collection" as well, it might be better than the first.

 

I've kind of started to wonder that as well. Superman II doesn't end the way I remembered it ending so I think there is some retconning going on I think.

 

Whatever Wikipedia has said lately, I think Singer says that he stays true to Donner's films, so the only retconning is III, IV, and the other guy's scenes in II.

BTW...am I weird? I added to the DVD of II (my copy) Donner's name as director, and took out Salkind because he screwed it all up in the first place.

 

TALKING TO SUPERMAN'S SCRIBES: DAN HARRIS & MICHAEL DOUGHERTY

by Daniel Robert Epstein

Dan Harris and Michael Dougherty made their bones in movies and superhero movies in particular when they worked on the screenplay for X2 for director Bryan Singer. Singer was so impressed with their work that he invited them to create the screenplay for the highly anticipated Superman Returns.

Excerpts with the spoilers removed:

Superman Returns takes off from where Superman II ended.


I had a chance to talk with Dan Harris and Michael Dougherty from the set of Superman Returns in Australia. Both Harris and Dougherty were affable and fun and even snorted when I brought up Superman IV's Nuclear Man.

Question: First off, can you please explain how Superman Returns fits into the chronology of the previous Superman films - there are a few theories out there?

Michael Dougherty: We'd describe it as a pseudo-sequel in a way because Dan, myself and Bryan [Singer] were so in love with what Richard Donner did that it felt like a mistake to go back to go back and remake the origin story. Everyone knows the origin story. Donner did it perfectly. Smallville is doing it again and you don't want two different incarnations because that breeds confusion and also it takes things further versus going back and doing it again.


Q: Will the audience have to see the first two films to understand this movie?

DH: No.

MD: It helps.

DH: It helps, yeah. I'd recommend seeing the first film to anybody.

MD: But we've summarized things pretty quickly and easily.

DH: There's a very interesting way that the film unfolds in the first 20 minutes, we'd love to tell you but we can't. It's told in a way people wouldn't really expect.

Q: Did the extended version of Superman II where Superman destroys the Fortress of Solitude come into play?

MD: Bryan likes to say "vague history" and that keeps coming up but it's true. I like to talk about James Bond in that way. People know that James Bond is a spy, his codename's 007, he meets up with M and Q every now and then and gets the details of the next mission. That's all you need to know when you go to a new James Bond film. It doesn't have a lot of direct references to the films that came before it but sometimes they do. This is very similar to that. As long as you have the basic knowledge of who Superman is and who the characters are, you're fine.

--Newsarama.com interview.


It owes to the style of what Richard Donner completed with the first film, but it picks up on both films. The sequels after II are not included.

 

Yes...exactly what I wanted.

 

Superman II ends with him flying away from the earth. right?

 

No, they won't change the ending to Donner's cut. Michael Thau is following the screenplay as a guideline, along with notes and what not. The flying in orbit is just a thing that Donner started for a final visual cue and all the other sequels just kept it, though useing different takes for each film. Superman I was originally just going to end with Superman flying away from the prision, then we cut to outer space where we see the missile that Superman sent away. The missile explodes and we see the Phantom Zone shatter, freeing the villians. Then as we see them heading towards Earth, it would then cut to footage from II, before announcing that Superman II was coming next year. Donner changed the ending to what we know it as now. Only the end credit title card of "Coming Next Year: Superman II" was put in place.

What this film will do is acknowledge all the basics from I & II, before diving headlong into the next chapter. There won't be an acknowledgement of the Fortress being destroyed. Or an explaination on how Clark regained his powers. They're just covering key highlights from I & II, which relates to the story of Returns. Singer knows that not everyone knows of the Donner footage that contains the destruction of the Fortress. So he's sticking to the general material that everyone knows and remembers.

It's like in the Bond films. They mention bits from the past, but don't go into too much detail. Take "For Your Eyes Only" which has the final showdown between Bond and Blofeld, during the prologue. We have a vauge reference, but we don't know everything. In "License To Kill", they refer to Bond being married, but they don't go into too much detail. Basically, keep it simple.

 

I think he meant that II ended with Superman flying in space. But either way, I really didn't take that at face value, but rather just as a last shot of the film. I guess you could assume he left after that, but that's where the "vague history" comes in.

Question: how is "Donner's original cut" different, which one is on DVD now, and will the other one be released? Obviously, I would love to own the Donner cut for this film and because III and IV sucked.

 

A "Donner cut" will be part of the 14 disc "Ultimate Superman Set". Details on the set are still a bit fuzzy as it isn't going to be released until SR hits DVD. The last rumors were saying that the new cut would only be availible as part of the set on DVD but would see an individual release on the next gen formats.

 

When Superman leaves Earth, he does so in a spaceship that he created in the Fortress. Reason being is that without a yellow sun, he is just as normal as you and me. If they're following the dense moleculre (sp) structure, he has no powers as soon as he is away from a yellow sun. If they're sticking to the solar battery version, then he'll lose his powers after a time as he has no more energy to draw off of.

 

Just a bit off topic. A pic of Gerard Christopher, who played Superboy in short lived television series, which will be on DVD. He was Superboy from seasons two through four. The series was produced by the Salkinds.

[image=http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g92/darth-sinister/Avatars/f054f4c2.jpg]

 

I think it would be helpful for all if someone would summarize what differences Donner envisioned for Superman II and whatnot. I only knew about the Fortress getting destroyed...I've no clue what other changes in story arc, etc. were originally planned for the film.

 

This site explains it far better then I ever could

 

Additional links.

http://www.supermancinema.co.uk/superman2/real_s2/index.htm

http://www.supermancinema.co.uk/superman2/general/extended_versions/index.htm

http://www.supermancinema.co.uk/superman2/general/extended_versions/the_tv_versions/index.htm

 

forgive me for asking this but what's this talk about the destruction of the fortress? was it in Donner's Version of Superman II?

 

I recently picked up the Superman Returns novelization (but forced myself to stop reading after a few chapters so as not to spoil the movie too much) and I have to admit that I'm a little confused as to the relation between the new film and the originals.

In the novel Superman is looking over the ruins of Krypton and thinking about his father's accomplishments including the Phantom Zone. Zod's name is printed but Supes doesn't know the names of his henchmen.

It's clear when Luthor goes to the Fortress of Solitude that he's been there before in Superman 2.

If Lois' child Jason is indeed Superman's son, then the only time the two slept together was in (Lester's Version of) Superman 2.

Does this mean that everything that took place in 2 occured in the revitalized universe of Superman Returns? If so, then why does Supes act as if he's never met the criminal Kryptonians?

 

that's a good question. i've read the novel and been wondering that as well.

 

As I understand it, Superman II did happen but it is not referenced all the way. Superman did remember Zod, since as we know in II, he recognizes the name. As to Non and Ursa, well, he just didn't recall it. The impression I got was that he couldn't recall their names. Nothing about not meeting him. That might be more of an error on Wolfman's part, since it's an internal thought and not an external one.

In both the Donner version and Lester version, Kal and Lois sleep together. The difference is that in the Donner version, Superman still had his powers. After having dinner with Lois, they watch old holos of the time after his birth and before being put in the ship. They then go to where the bed is and make love. When Lois wakes up, she finds Kal standing before Jor-El wearing his Clark Kent clothing. She's wearing his Superman tunic. Jor-El tells him that he must give up his powers and he flies into molecue (sp) chamber, before losing his powers. In the Lester version, Lois goes to change clothes and he talks to Lara. He goes into the molecue (sp) chamber and loses his powers, resulting in his looking like Clark Kent. Complete with clothing. They then make love.

In the Donner version, Lex and the Phantom Zoners are lead away by the artic patrol. Superman then uses his heat vision to destroy the Fortress. The original idea was that Zod kills Lois and Superman flies back in time, restoring everything and yet, erasing everyone's memories of what happened. Including Lois's memories of his dual identity. The Fortress is destroyed as a consequence of this. But because Lois's death was moved to the first film, Donner was going to come up with something else to erase her memories. But he never got to do it. The Fortress was to be destroyed by using Superman's heat vision on it, so that it would be gone in any future installments. In the end, Lester didn't include the destruction of the Fortress and this is why it is in IV.

While Superman Returns pays a lot of homage to the first film, but not a lot to the second film. This is due to the two different cuts that will be available at the end of the year. They kept the basics of II, but not all the specific details. Just that Superman and Lois slept together & Lex was in the Fortress are used. That is not to say that II didn't happen, just that they don't specifiy which version. Though since the Fortress is in Returns, it is the Lester cut. Not everyone knows of the Donner cut.

 

i've got one of my younger brothers hooked on I and II just recently. he really likes them and is excited about seeing Superman Returns

 

darth-sinister,
"you are the dude",about the superman movies, you know the s!31.
I recently heard that Singer was watching the 5-hour version of Donner's vision, while shooting X-men1 or2. Now, I don't know if he meant the Salkind Rebroadcasted extended cuts, KCOP. or what. Being in Hollywood, sounds plausible. Since he had mentioned that it was a bootleg that someone gave him. But all that info. that you mentioned is true, and that a 5-hr version does exists.

Kisses.

 

There was no five hour broadcast. There was a 3 hour and eight minute version, shown in 94 on an ABC affiliate. The following is a breakdown of both films on television.

http://www.supermancinema.co.uk/superman1/general/extrafootage/index.shtml

http://www.supermancinema.co.uk/superman2/general/extended_versions/the_tv_versions/index.htm

 

I think that's what Singer meant to say, It was on HyperSpace weekly, prior to June 28. He mentioned that he was watching a bootleg of Superman movies. Not that he was "just exaggerating" or he meant the 3hr version or maybe meant both movies together. But that means Superman 2 was just 2hrs. I have both copies of these bootlegs. And Superman the movie, does run about 3hrs. Damn you, Bryan Singer!

 

But even in bootleg, it never ran five hours. The only way that could happen is if it contained every single frame of film. If you take the ABC broadcasts of both films, then you could get a five hour bootleg cut.

 

Trust me, I felt the SAME way!