Superman: the original movies

(sighs) I guess I'm pretty die hard when it comes to Superman (and John Williams)..and Christopher Reeve...but I'm gonna cringe when I buy 3...and definetely 4.

 

Hollywoodland just opened today.May go to see it.It is done in the style of the film Rashomon-by Kurasawa-multiple story viewpoints.Now certain people connected with the film-like the screenwriter believe George committed suicide.Strange-George had several projects going -like a trip to Australia promoting the show that would earn him 20 grand and he was going to direct and star in a SF film as well as signed up for another year of Superman shows in which he would direct a third of the shows.None of this is apparently taken into account by the film or other works dealing with George.

 

It's real sad how much those covers make me wanna buy the movies, knowing full well how much they suck.

 

yeah. the covers are the only good things about those 2 movies

 

Yeah, especially, the cover for Superman IV. I noticed that the Chris Reeve pic is actually and obviously a shot from the first Superman movie. In addition, Hackman is on the front of the cover. Do you think Hackman sees Sup IV sitting on the shelf of a store and says to himself, "How could I do such a good film like HOOSIERS, and then do this piece of crap right after it?"?

 

He did all three because of money. While he did get along with the cast and crew and had a great time, it all came down to money.

 

On a side note, the new designs for Richard Donner's and Geoff Johns' run on Action Comics by Andy Kubert.

[image=http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g92/darth-sinister/Avatars/AC849_solicit.jpg]

Dial-Up friendly.

Dial-up friendly.

[image=http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g92/darth-sinister/Avatars/cddda3f2.jpg]

 

The Donner Cut is just around the corner.

KNEEL BEFORE DON!!!

 

I am so getting that massive 14-disc box set! IT WILL BE MINE!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

I plan on getting it as well. Now whether I get it that first week or wait a while is another question...

 

Review of the Donner Cut. Credit to Jiveguy over on the Superman Cinema forums.

Just got back. I have to be up again in five hours, so I'll write a couple of notes about the experience, then answer some quick questions. I'll be checking the board all day tomorrow at work if you guys have further questions...

Cool things about the night...
-Richard Donner, Margot Kidder, Brandon Routh, Bryan Singer, Sam Huntington, Sarah Douglas, Jack O'Holloran, Marc McClure, Tom Mankewicz, and Mike Thau were in attendance.

-I took the stairs and accidentally came in through the back which led me right into the VIP party so i got to see them in person, up close. (Didn't speak to them though). They served Kryptontinis at the bar.

-Here's something you won't hear ANYWHERE. Ilya Salkind was in attendance, sitting in the back. After the screening in the post QandA Margot Kidder was speaking highly about Donner and about how much better this version of the film was and Ilya yelled out from the back "NO IT'S NOT" and walked to the back of the screening room, pissed. interesting eh?

-Everyone got a free copy of the new Action Comics issue, written by Richard Donner.

that's all I have the energy to write up for now. Now for the questions...


1. How were the new special effects compared to the original film?

They looked great and really fit in. Meaning, they're not over the top spectacular to the point where it's obvious they added 2006 effects into a 1980 film. I thought they handled that well. It still looks like a 1980 film.

2. How were the East Houston scenes handled? Different music, edited differently, different takes?

The scene where they land in the water, then, confront the two patrolmen are still there. The next Houston scene we get is when the TV reporter is there. So basically the whole bar scene is taken out, and the scene where Ursa kills the boy was never put in.

3. Did they cut out the finger powers?

Yeah, actually. lol

4. How often did they use a stand-in and was it obvious?

Only to the trained eye. The only time where is was slightly obvious, and I mean slightly, is when Lois jumps out the window and falls into the fruit stand. When she looks up at Clark, who is standing at the window, it is clear they used a stand in. But probably only to us.

5. What was the lamest thing about the new cut?

Seeing the RIC cut will definitely spoil this experience for some, mainly because a lot of the great scenes that were added for the TV versions were trimmed, or not added at all.

For instance there's some dialogue cut in the scene between Superman and Lois after he destroys the fortress of solitude, and the scene at the end where he bumps into the big guy at the elevator, which reminds him of the bully at the diner was not even added (Thau said this would be included as a deleted scene on the DVD).


6. What was the lamest new scene?

A lot of people might say it will be the scene where Lois finds out Clark is Superman. This is mainly because it's clearly from the auditions, and also because Reeve's hair noticeably changes with each shot. I however loved seeing it and it was very pleasing seeing the effort that was put into making the scene work. We've been wanting this cut for SO LONG, I'm sure many of us will gladly look past this. On a side note, when Lois unveils the fact that she was using blanks and says "gotcha," the crowd popped BIG TIME, and it got the biggest reaction during the movie. It went over very well.

7. What was the best thing about the new cut?

Definitely the first 3/5 of the movie. It's practically a COMPLETELY new experience, I couldn't beleive it. Almost everything is either new, or approached differently up until the point where Clark loses his powers and they go to the diner.

and also...

THE BRANDO SCENES!!!!!!!!!!!! These came out WAAAY better than I could have possibly expected. The scene where Clark decides to give up his powers and has a talk with his father is hands down the best performance Reeve's gives in

 

that sounds cool. i wonder how much different it is from the Lester one. i always liked that scene. so I take it they reintroduced Jor-El into that part then?

 

Well, I'll link you to the IGN website which has footage of the Donner Cut. http://uk.media.dvd.ign.com/media/844/844345/vids_1.html

You can view the files in Javascript, Windows Media and Quicktime. If you do not wish to, then I will tell you from what I've seen and read.

The film starts with an intro and a dedication to Christopher Reeve. After that, we see the approaching shots of Krypton. Only we don't see the red sun as it is from the other side of the planet. We then have the trial, but different takes are used. For instance, rather than the close-up of Zod's eyes and then his mouth, we see a medium shot of his whole face. Then we get a different take of the dome opening and the Phantom Zone sucking them up. A bit of CGI is used. We see them leave Krypton using the same tracking of Kal-El's rocket. Then when we see the planet explode, we see the shockwave buffet the shard, sending them faster through space. Then we see Kal's rocket go by. Then an alternate take of Kal opening the ship and seeing the sky. Then it cuts to Lex saying "Mind over muscle" to Superman as he places the Kryptonite on his neck. Then Eve removing it, before ending with Superman sending the rocket into space. Then new footage here as we see multiple angles of the rocket exploding, with the blast effect similar to how it would look in 1977-79. We see the Phantom Zone shard get pulled in by a vacuum effect that has resulted in the explosion. As we see the Zone pass through the blue radiation feild, the Zone bounces three times as it splits into three distinct shards, before exploding. Each villian tumbles out into space, which we see each point of view before Non stops first. He realizes that he is free and starts to fly. Then we see a baffled Zod catch on, before flying off. Then Ursa rights herself very graceful like, as the radiation effect disappears. We see a close-up of Zod coming at us, with an hate filled look, bellowing only one word. "Free!" Then we cut to a different shot as we see them flying towards Earth and the moon, all of which has been CGI rendered. Then it goes to the opening credits like in the first film.

Here's what Lester shot that is in the film.

-NASA point of view of the moon attack, minus the unnecessary humor.

-Lois & Clark arrive outside their hotel room and go in, but not beyond that.

-Villians land on Earth, but not the fisherman's reaction. No word on the rest of the scene.

-Villians confront the Sheriff and Deputy Dwayne. But the conversation between the two about ordering lunch is cut. As is when Non picks up the squad car.

-Lois & Clark outside looking at the falls. Clark turns to Superman and saves the kid. The orange juice references are cut.

-The reporter talking about the arrival of the three new strangers.

-The fight against the military, but we don't see the jeep crash through the sign. And the flamethrower fire has been enhanced. We do not see the guy in the bar jump out the window. And the helicopter crash is sped up.

-Superman & Lois arriving at the Fortress and the dinner scene, but it ends with Clark telling Lois that everything is clear for the first time.

-Zod's speech is cut, but demanding to know who the General answers to is in.

-Destruction of Mount Rushmore has been replaced with the Washington Monument.

-Sounds of gunfire has been reduced in the White House attack.

-No word on how much of the Metropolis showdown is the same, other than the opening segment.

-Zod taunting Superman that he is a coward and Superman's response is there. As is the concrete exchange.

-All unnecessary humor has been cut.

 

thanks darth-sinister

 

I can't wait to see this!

 

I just thought of something. Having Superman doing the time travel thing again is actually a fitting punishment for his misuse of it in the first movie. He has to undo what he has done.

He saves Lois by interfering with human history in the first movie. If she had not been alive, then he would have never become human and might have been a little more in tune with the villains' escape from the phantom zone; thereby, ending their reign of terror more quickly with less loss of life. Now, at the end of Superman II, the villains are defeated and she is alive. I looks like he might get to have his cake and eat it, too, but then, life comes along with a cruel irony. She is alive, but will have to suffer remembering their relationship. The only hope for her to move on is to forget that he could even become human. He is torn. He could go back far enough to allow her to die, but he cannot do that. He goes back far enough for her to forget, but now his punishment is to watch the woman he loves everyday not know him as he knows her. She may be alive, but he can never be with her again.

I could imagine that any loneliness he is experiencing would be amplified by scientists thinking they have found Krypton. This coupled with his knowlege about the villains and his desire for relationship could drive even Superman to leave his calling; that is, Earth.

I, personally, like the idea that there are consequences for Jor-El forbidding him from interfering with human history. Otherwise, Jor-El's statement becomes useless dialogue.

I like the use of "the turning-back-time" element instead of "the kiss" because it results in Superman having to use the same method he used before to undo what he did. However, he compromises by allowing her to live which is just going to cause him more distraction from his purpose over time. He is not willing to TOTALLY undo what he has done.

 

What is the date for the Donner release?

 

The same as all of the other Superman DVD's including SR.

11/28/06.

I believe that HD-DVD and Bluray formats are being released on this day as well.

It's gonna be an all out SUPER day.

 

Having recently watched the "new" Donner Cut, here some of are my thoughts:

First of all, I deeply thank Warners for going through with this project. They deserve a lot of credit. And I hope they and other studios continue to dig through their vaults on the quest for lost gems.

Having said that, I'm afraid this new cut is a mixed bag, and mostly a disappointing experience for people (like myself) who've spent years bashing the Lester version, thinking that the Donner version had to be vastly superior. Unfortunately, it ain't -- at least not in this incarnation. And in many ways, I find the original Lester version to be a more satisfying experience, as cheesy and campy as it is.

Even though there are some wonderful restored moments (mostly involving Luthor and Zod) and a few big revelations about how entire sequences were originally intended to be played out, this Donner Cut is a frustrating mess. Not because of missing elements or the use of screen tests or that Donner never had the opportunity to shoot several important scenes (mostly in the middle of the film) -- all of that is understandable and forgivable.

What's unforgivable is the amateurish editing (picture, sound, AND music) as well as some pathetically low-grade visual effects. I mean, it's not like they made a conscious effort to even match the ****ty quality of Superman II's original VFX. The new effects are often worse than those. They're often worse than the effects in Superman IV. They're even worse than some of the effects in Star Trek V, if you can believe it. I'm sure they had a very tight budget, and there are a lot of new effects that had to be done for this all to make sense. But that's no excuse for the sloppy concept and design behind those shots. When you see guys like Darren Dochterman doing his own very convincing and often spectacular "homemade" effects for Star Trek: Enhanced on spec, in the hopes of getting the job but mostly out of love for the material, and then you look at what's on display in Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut, you have to wonder if the right people were even in charge.

And if people are confused by the reports of poor music editing when the restoration team wisely did the sensible thing of using John Williams' original Superman: The Movie score to mostly replace Ken Thorne's pale imitation...well, if you take film scores seriously, you'll really notice the problem when you experience the whole thing. As cheap and thin-sounding as Thorne's score might have sounded, it served the emotional needs of the film. The Donner Cut's music editing seems to merely be plugging holes or patching flaws, with little regard to the emotion of a scene, or its thematic context within the overall film. It's almost as if the editor thought, "I need to fill 12 seconds here, and Luthor's on-screen, so I'll just drop in 12 seconds of Luthor's Theme," instead of selecting a cue that best serves the feeling that Superman is getting his ass kicked and Metropolis is in danger, and links those 12 seconds in with what's happening before and after.

I've heard some people who've seen this Donner Cut refer to it as a glorified fan-edit. I've heard others who haven't seen it respond by saying that's an unfair opinion to have. The second group is wrong on at least two levels.

But in short, I'll say that the original Donner elements are a joy to finally see...and what's there really could have worked like gangbusters. Seeing General Zod grin with childlike glee as he uses a "primitive" M-16 to mow down White House security is reason enough to see this new cut. It's just how those raw elements were restored and poorly reworked for the Donner Cut that gives this whole noble experiment the stink of missed opportunity.

 

Even though I like the use of time travel again (see post above), I am bothered by a continuity problem. In this cut, Clark goes back to fight the bully as in the Lester cut. This would be fine if he were merely going back to fight him in the sense that Clark knows that this guy bullies people and needs a little humility, but by him saying things like, "I've been working out.", it gives the impression that these people have seen Clark before when, in fact, they shouldn't have seen him at all since he changed everything.

 

The diner scene was the last one Donner filmed, before halting work on II. By that point, turning back time was already out for II and to be used in I. Donner said that a new ending would've been used, but he had no opportunity to think of one. Lester's ending was dropped because it didn't fit the context of the Donner's film, nor continuity wise as Lois is in her office when she didn't have one. They considered using it, but it was left out.

As to what I've seen of the effects, none of them really bother me that much. Even as bad as IV was, I still could enjoy the film for the most part. If Thau had the time, money and resources, it would be a different story. He is, afterall, mostly a film editor. He didn't have an expert in the effects industry to help.

 

I've been so excited about the Donner cut ever since I first read about the Superman 2 that could have been years ago. I have to admit now that what I'm hearing is all really... underwhelming.

 

i'm still excited about it.

 

We're about a week away from the DVD releases.

Can't wait.

Since there are hybrid discs, I going to go ahead and get the HD-DVD versions in case HD-DVD wins the race. This will be the first time I have bought one of the HD formats, but I going to wait a while before getting an HD-DVD player.

 

Review that's spoiler free from Superman Homepage, of the Donner Cut.

?Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut? Spoiler-Free Review
By Barry M. Freiman

"Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut" is the Christmas miracle of 2006. Long-time Superman fans have long tilted at this windmill and the Donner cut doesn't disappoint even those who've waited more or less patiently over 25 years since the original theatrical release of "Superman II". This new DVD, available as a stand-alone product or as part of the 14-disc "Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition", is being released in the United States on November 28, 2006. It will be available for standard Region 1 DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-ray Disc. "Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut" is not included in the eight-disc "The Christopher Reeve Superman Collection."

Many of you undoubtedly already know the story of how 1980's "Superman II" ended up containing the work of two different directors and how a significant portion of the first director's work, though completed, never saw the light of day. Some of you think you know the tales of cost-cutting, job-cutting, and footage-cutting that went into making "Superman II". But for those of you who don't, or who only think you know the whole story, a little history lesson is in order.

Richard Donner, the Director of 1978's "Superman: The Movie" (and current co-writer of "Action Comics" with Geoff Johns), shot "Superman" and much of "Superman II" simultaneously in England in the mid- to late 1970s. Donner and his writing pal Tom Mankiewicz, credited as a Creative Consultant on "Superman", had plans to continue with a successful "Superman" franchise ad infinitum. After Donner directed the first two "Superman" films, as he explains during the commentary track on the new DVD, he would have turned the director's chair over to Mankiewicz for "Superman III" and stayed on as Producer. That didn't happen.

During the film shoot, relations between Donner and the Producers (father and son Alexander and Ilya Salkind, and Pierre Spengler) became strained and ultimately deteriorated. As Donner explains on the new DVD, he felt the Producers prioritized cutting costs to the point of being "cheap" over producing a quality epic. Due to the length of time it was taking to make us believe a man could fly, the film costs kept rising and the Producers had to sell some of their participation rights back to Warner Brothers in exchange for additional corporate financing. The film missed a planned Summer 1978 release date.

By the end of the shoot, it's been suggested over the years, Donner had banned the Producers from stepping foot on the "Superman" set. The Producers hired an intermediary, director Richard Lester (who'd directed "The Three Musketeers" films for the Salkinds), to stay on-set and monitor Donner's work. As Donner ran up against the December 1978 release deadline, Lester came up with the idea to halt all work on "Superman II" and concentrate all efforts on finishing "Superman". The reasoning was that, if "Superman" flopped, there'd be no reason to finish "Superman II".

This decision also changed the creative direction of both films. The original "Superman" script called for the missile headed to Hackensack, New Jersey, that Superman flew into space, to explode just as the Phantom Zone mirror passed by. The explosion blows a hole in the Phantom Zone and frees the three Kryptonian villains. To be continued in the sequel.

Much as was done later with "Back to the Future 2" and "3", the original plan was for "Superman II" to open right after "Superman" closed, evoking the cliffhanger feel of the old movie serials. With the decision made to finish "Superman II" after the release of the first movie, the big ending planned for "Superman II" involving Superman changing time by flying around the world in reverse was 'borrowed' to close "Superman" and the Hackensack missile apparently bypassed the Phantom Zone altogether.

"Superman" soared and Warner Brothers green lit the sequel. Donner needed to finish about 25% of the sequel including