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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Books "Sword of the Jedi" trilogy would be over by now...

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Ghost, Jun 6, 2016.

  1. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012

    Some Imperials seem to know it long before Dark Empire - Trioculus and his allies - and that was shortly after the battle of Endor, around a year or so. Trioculus tries to use it to convince Leia she could join him

    "This day has brought me three victories, Princess," Trioculus declared. "First, I was freed from the carbonite. Then Zorba paid for the injustice he did to me - and to you. And lastly, I have taught you to be grateful to me."
    "Grateful to you?" Leia exclaimed. "Guess again. I'll be grateful to the Alliance when they assassinate you, Trioculus."
    "I know you don't mean that, Leia," he replied. "I destroyed Zorba and you smiled. I saw you."
    "Did you now? I sincerely doubt it. I have nothing to smile about as long as I'm prisoner on this Moffship."
    "The Dark Side is strong in you, Leia!" Trioculus continued. "It has control of you now; I'm certain of it. You shall marry me, and together we shall celebrate Zorba's death!"
    "Dream on, Trioculus," Princess Leia said with clenched teeth. "I'm a Jedi, protected from the evil power of the Dark Side and the likes of you."
    "Your father was once a Jedi too - a Jedi Knight named Anakin Skywalker. But he turned to the Dark Side and became Darth Vader. Being a Jedi didn't protect him from the powers of darkness."
    "I'd rather die before I'd marry a lying, ruthless Imperial tyrant."


    and at the wedding, others comment that Luke's a troublemaker despite being Vader's son, so Leia may be the same.

    "I hope Trioculus isn’t making a mistake," Grand Moff Muzzer whispered to Grand Moff Thistleborn. "It’s a bit too soon to know for sure whether Leia has embraced the Dark Side."
    "He knows exactly what he’s doing," Thistleborn replied with a nod. "Consider how loyal Darth Vader was to Emperor Palpatine and the Dark Side. We must never forget that the Princess is Vader’s daughter - his flesh and blood."
    "Yes, but so is Luke Skywalker," Grand Moff Muzzer replied softly. "And a more nettlesome troublemaker than Skywalker we’ll never find."
     
  2. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2020
    @Iron_lord Most people knew in about a year after ROTJ from what it seems, the Marvel comics i quoted took place about a month after Endor if i remember correctly, Jedi Prince is 5 ABY and by that point the New Republic is fully formed, it stands to reason that Luke and Leia, seeing as the Alliance of Free Planets transitioned to the NR and solidified itself, they had no need to hide their heritage because the goverment could now sustain itself, they probably started telling it to all of the NR higher ups (military leaders, council, etc.) from where it leaked to the imperial leaders, hence why the Moffs know.
     
  3. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Thinking about it now. In truth, I ponder how many people believed it anyway? I doubt Luke and Leia would've intended it at all to be leaked beyond, well Han and Chewie and Lando and maybe Wedge (since Wedge is Luke's best friend in most sense -- kinda wish that was more enhanced in both canon and legends). Perhaps they said it as a joke to some random person (an Imperial plant) sometime later and the Moffs, desperate for means to escape the control of Isard, took it as fact. Ultimately that fact would be confirmed post-Dark Empire but most who could do anything about it were dead and/or not likely to pick Vader's children as their successors (since it was likely revealed and confirmed that Vader killed Palpatine).
     
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  4. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2020
    It is a messy and kinda funny situation overall when you think about it, if most of the galaxy didin't really believe it (or didin't care) because it was revealed by them, to the point where once it finally got 100% confirmed everybody already assimilated it, and probably saw that Luke and Leia's good deeds outweight any dark legacy from Vader, it also certainly helps that the galaxy knows Luke is the one who defeated Vader, too.

    So in a way by doing this, they inadvertedly avoided the mess that was the uprisings against Leia from Canon when her lineage was discovered.

    This is also why i think eventually Sia would have been honest about the execution of her father, after she's gained the people's trust as empress..
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2023
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  5. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Definitely an stupid move by Bail Organa. Not very like what we know about him, dropping the ball like that. But Bloodline has a lot of people dropping the ball and then dropping more, mostly the Populists who clearly have no brains.
     
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  6. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I imagine the list of people who knew looked like this:-

    1. Han
    2. Winter
    3. Chewbacca
    4. Lando
    5. Wedge
    6. Thrawn
    7. Pestage
    8. Mas Amedda
    9. Sly Moore
    10. Kadann
    11. Cronal
    13. Isard
    14. The loyal Grand Moffs post-Endor and by extension Trioculus
    15. The Jedi Praxeum students
    16. Rogue Squadron (but not all? Tycho? Hobbie? Wes?)
    17. Ackbar
    18. Mon Mothma
    19. The immediate generation of Senators and Councillors
    20. Karrde (because Karrde)

    Which admittedly is only, what, a few hundred people?

    In a galaxy of trillions.

    And the number likely reduced as time went on.

    I imagine it was downplayed while Leia was Chancellor.

    Similarly, Lady Vader was hopefully tuned out of the Noghri parlance eventually.

    I could in theory see it being an open secret by 28 ABY.
     
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  7. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Tahiri might have ended up being Ben's spouse, given where they seemed to be going with Vestara. Though that isn't much comfort to Anahiri shippers.
     
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  8. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    *waves his Team Seha flag*

    *looks at his Team Kyp flag… and Team Callista flag; the Callista flag is all chewed up and has tentacles*


    Apparently I have no idea how shipping works.
     
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  9. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I dunno, I don’t mind Anakin/Danni Quee and Jacen/Alema but then I am a very weird person.
     
  10. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Much as Troy Denning liked pairing them up as partners, if it went romantic...considering that moment in Invincible I remain sickened with to this day...then that would be...I leave it at that.
     
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  11. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Age gaps aren't a huge thing for me, but between Tahiri and Ben it is. Or rather was, in that scene.

    [Insert long discussion about the age of consent across the world being different and Ben was old enough in some cultures/modern countries, agree to disagree, personally dislike it, and pairing Tahiri and Ben is not what I wanted etc etc etc]

    [Insert someone taking the conversation far too far]

    [Insert a Mod (probably me) closing down the conversation in a day or two]
     
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  12. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Ben would be over twenty by the time he got with Tahiri(assuming he did).

    In SW it seems the age of majority is also younger than RL(at least the modern west) Anakin leads a commando mission at 17, Jed i padawans fight in battles even younger. Han was working various jobs as a teenager and Padme was going into civil service work at 14.

    Teenagers in SW are honestly treated more as they were centuries ago, as adults. With the responsibilities and freedoms being an adult entails.
     
  13. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    IIRC the concept of the "teenager," as in a transitory state between child and adult that is its own distinct thing, is pretty shockingly new in general, like just since the end of WWII. Notice how in, say, a lot of classic novels from the 1800s, girls will go right from playing with dolls to looking for husbands.

    As for Ben's love interest, I was rooting for Vestara myself, just because I like opposite-sides romances, but he kinda treated her like crap. Didn't he actually slap her at one point? Our hero, ladies and gentlemen!

    Denning really liked his "dark versus more dark" stories, didn't he?
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2023
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  14. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 14, 2006
    Yeah, um...that has a lot of implications.
     
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  15. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I like Bestara, I just don’t think the writers would have gone with it. They outright claimed it would have repeated Luke and Mara(I think denning says something like the editors looked at each other in disapproval and outright say “only if nothing comes of it”)

    Tahiri on the other hand was basically just hanging around the Sky Solos and by Crucible, really has nothing to do. Her main story is completed. Having her end up with Ben from a writing perspective would have been very easy, giving her a reason to remain part of the main cast, they could rush it or draw it out over a lot of books, but I don’t think there was going to be any other option.

    Would the fans have been mad? Yeah, but when did that ever stop Lucasbooks and Del Rey from doing anything?
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2023
  16. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Should've just left her on Zonama Sekot with Danni Quee. She was largely around as a reminder that Anakin Solo was dead and they wanted that angst.
     
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  17. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    They were going to give Denning another trilogy, in spite how how much discontent there was with his influence. I don’t think the people in charge of the post NJO EU’s direction cared in the slightest about fan reactions or attitudes.

    So long as sales(which were already low and dropping) didn’t go below a certain threshold nothing would have changed.
     
  18. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003

    Before they confirmed Jag/Jaina did indeed get married, I was hoping for Jag/Tahiri getting married, Jaina marrying either Zekk or someone else, and then it's Jaina's daughter who marries Jag and Tahiri's son, and those two bring us to Roan Fel.
     
  19. AusStig

    AusStig Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    That is so disgusting. It is just so wrong to me that they spent the time building up Benstara and then pulled Ves's turn to the light away from her, because I guess we can't have redemption in star wars any more.

    I hope that fan push back would have lead to Ben and Ves marrying and Denning no longer having books, but since they were talking about giving him more books.... who can say. Though given that he was one of the few late EU authors to write 0 canon novels is interesting.
     
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  20. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    It wasn’t Denning’s decision, and they were never going to do the romance, it was always going to be pulled out from under the fans.
     
  21. I like the concept of the Fel Empire since in one of the first Drafts of ANH the Jedi or the Jedi Bendu worked for an Empire
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2023
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  22. AusStig

    AusStig Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Denning was the one who made her a mass murderer and he pushed Ben x Tahiri, you can't shift the blame for those.

    Then they were bad editors.
     
  23. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    That is rather curious.

    But I do consider Tarkin, Heir to the Jedi and Lords of the Sith to be sufficiently generic that they were probably under the old Del Rey contract.

    Maybe even A New Dawn.

    Like, say, that Luceno, Kemp, JJM etc were already contracted to do books.

    So they just shifted the books they were doing.
     
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  24. AusStig

    AusStig Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Tarkin, was written for Legends same with Heir the Jedi (it was part of honour among thieves and the leia book trilogy). I don't know about lords of the Sith and A New Dawn.

    Yes, that is my thinking same with Golden, that these authors already had to write books and they just changed the books, but Denning did not. I don't think Disney would pay out a contract, so maybe he didn't have one.
     
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  25. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Potentially he was 'between' contracts, while Golden was in the middle of SotJ.