Lit Tales of the Jedi continuity

The concept of ancient mysterious magicians and schemers pulling the strings behind the scenes, even when the Sith are in power, still exists and has taken many new forms. Be it Snoke before he got retooled to be a tool of the Sith merely, be it the Oracle and Tor Valum or the dark gods of the Sith and other entities that now inform that undying lifeline beyond the mere mortal, godhood aspiring Sith and Dark Jedi. From Dark Jedi and Sith, to Sith and True Sith, to Sith Lords and gods, entities, etc. it is a progression of the same principle under different names by different storytellers but still apparent and actual even in new canon.

 

@Sauron_18

I do think to add to your point about the reboot Sith in NuCanon they have been trying to make Vader do more....Sith things expanded material, with obviously stuff like Vader's comic or the Vader VR game....where he is doing a bit more of the Sith thing beyond just being "Enforcer of the Empire"

I mean in many ways that's where Legends was going with the Sith post prequels (And even during) with KOTOR and SWOTOR trying in some ways (And your mileage may very on how will it succeed) synthesizing the TOTJ and the KOTOR Sith together.

Plus post Endor stuff with Jacen Solo becoming a Sith and what not.

 

Interesting in that regard how the Jedi evolved. They too had all that magician ancient mystery stuff going on until the PT Jedi abandoned it around the time of the High Republic as evident in Master & Apprentice and Dooku: Jedi Lost mentioning the lost/forbidden/abandoned arts of the Order, including quite some Legends had ever present even around the movies.

The Sith kept these ancient arts alive, but like the Jedi relegated them more to the Master than the Apprentice.

 

I can't find the TFA thread for some reason. This one will do, however, because I was reading TOTJ the other day.

TOTJ was written in the pre-PT period, when Jedi training seemed more intuitively based rather than regimented. Luke gets a pep talk and manages to look like a trained swordsman through letting the Force guide him blocking training remote blasts, and his training on Dagobah(as shown on screen) is exclusively about letting the Force guide him not exactly what we would later get in the context of the Jedi Temple.

Some people coming at the ST informed by the PT saw Rey as a Mary Sue and having unearned power with the Force. Almost entirely forgetting how intuitive the Force was depicted as in the OT.

What Rey does in TFA is, IMHO, almost identical to what Nomi Sunrider does in The Saga of Nomi Sunrider. She takes out goons that had just killed her husband Andur with zero training. The Force guides her hand. Likewise, later in the story when the Hutt gang attacks her and Master Thon, Nomi instinctively uses battle meditation and then takes up a lightsaber and mows down an army of Hutt goons.... and she never once trained with a lightsaber or likely any weapon at all. She had, in fact, sworn to never touch a lightsaber again after the first time she used one.

IG: @jedisufism

 

It is interesting how the Sequel Trilogy does mirror a lot of the Tom Vietch stuff if you think about it.

Not just Dark Empire ....Which is just sorta the most infamous (Even if I love it) because of Clone Palpatine

But i remember back in the day people were comparing Kylo to Uliq and Kun with Snoke being Freedand Naad.

So the parallels are strangely more there than a lot of people tend to admit.

 

The ST definitely has strong DE and TOTJ remix vibes. Maybe particularly with the JJ stuff, but TLJ has the most overt DE visual references around Crait and Luke.

I love it for that.

IG: @jedisufism

 

Considering Snoke isn't a....Well he is TECHINALLY his own person given that he has free will...but given that he's a experiment ....It may not 100% align. But Snoke at least from what I've read about his relationship with Ben Solo has a bit of a Freedan Nad sorta vibe to Ben's Exar Kun

If DOTF had happened the Ben Solo Exar Kun parallels would have been more full force.

Though I suppose i prefer the more Uliq route for Kylo (Had he lived) but even as a force ghost I wouldn't mind...much like Uliq helped Anakin several years later after death.

 

Snoke arguably also had Kun vibes to Ben's Kyp Durron.

Sorry to derail this thread, though.

IG: @jedisufism

 

Nah this is the kinda stuff we've been talking about for a while now.

Yeah, especially since Ben meets Snoke as a voice first before a actual person.

 

I think Ben has some Ulic vibes.

Though that is mostly the 'romance' which TotJ does a lot better.

 

The Sequels were "Probably untintenitioally" inspired by the Vietch/Kevin J Anderson side of the early Bantam Era EU (And Dark Horse)

 

I think the ST just looked at things in a similar way. Due to looking only (or mostly) at the OT.

Though there are some differences. I think Ulic has a better arc than Kylo and is a better male lead too.

Nomi also has an arc (with training and issues) that gives her a unique place. She is a jedi who hates lightsabers, she is a lover, but she doesn't try to 'save' the bad boy, she kicks his ass.

She is also a single mother, maybe a bit reductive now, but it does set her apart from other heroes who are more 'youth' than 'parent'.

 

Those aren't really differences so much as just differences of opinion on who did it better? And quite frankly I don't even think they are even really the same character to compare them too to be honest.

Cuz yeah it very similar tone and feel but they are still telling very different stories.

 

How do you think they are similar in tone?

TotJ has a lot of magic force powers, with only 1 super weapon (and even that is from Sith Magic). While the ST has very little new force stuff (leaving aside TroS, since it goes full power).

ToTJ is a story about magic knights, they are knightly wizards, with one looking after new planets, they also seek out injustice, they also fight evil wizards and sorceress. To me this is what I thought the jedi would be like.

Which is an interesting contrast to how they act in the PT.

 

Cuz the ST is the most fantasy driven out of all the trilogies

I stick by my statement.

 

Only if you are talking about TroS. TFA takes a turn once SK shows up and TLJ has other stuff.

 

Eh...Agree to disagree on that one.

 

The scripts for ANH make it seem like “the Sith” were supposed to be what Rebels calls “Inquisitors”, meaning Jedi who pledged themselves to the Emperor.

In 1981, Kasdan asked Lucas if Palpatine was ever a Jedi, and Lucas said no.

I suspect that Lucas came up with “the Sith” as we know them today to explain how Palpatine learned to use The Force without having ever been a Jedi.

 

Which I like honestly. I like the Sith as a dark reflection of the Jedi, but not so dependant upon them for identity.

They have opposed religions, that is all they need to fight over. You don't need to make them an off shoot or anything like that (this cuts both ways), I like the Sith as a seperate organisation.

 

A totally independent origin would be a fun direction to go in.

With the similarities (combat arts, lightsabers, etc) being cross-pollination from having battled so many times over the years. Maybe even a few (obviously doomed) attempts at unification.

 

Well, I mean the Chinese and Celts both created swords independently, so I don't see why something similar couldn't happen here.

But yeah battle and attempts to join power could be interesting.

 

Sith and Jedi meet for the first time.

"Lol why are your sabers all those funny colours? Did you not bleed your crystal or what?"

"Bleed the crystal? They're living beings!"

"... oh god, hippies."

 

I am mixed about how canon treats crystals.

I kinda liked the old way of them being partly force rock, but you could also make your own.

 

I'm not a huge fan but it is what it is.

 

Until it isn't.