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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

tell me it isn't so -- the Sanctuary?

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Hudnall, May 25, 2006.

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  1. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    I assure you that thread wasn't shut down because someone called Hayden gimpy, but someone asked for examples of things we'd rather not see in the new world, and that was mine. If I may ask, how does gimpiness have anything to do with one's acting ability in a SW movie?
     
  2. Hudnall

    Hudnall Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Actually, it's perfectly acceptable. You have to look at the guy throughout the movie. Lines or no lines. But if this is your definition of "hate", then it's pretty darn apparent that none of us are welcome here - anywhere - on these boards.

    This thread - and idea of a mod selected focus group - is becoming quite a humorous study in group think and dynamics. This bureaucracy almost as competent as the Jedi Council. You guys are simply amazing me at your inability to see that the problem isn't us at all - but your own intolerance. Hope that goes well for you, and you all pat yourselves on the back and rest easy. Congratulations on closing on of the biggest draws and most popular threads on your owner's website - forgive me if I don't get excited about your spinoff, the Joey thread, *cough*, oh I mean, "Vintage."

    Hey gang. Maybe they are right? I think maybe we should all go cohabitate in the Anakin fan threads, Anakin/Padme rUlEz thread, and every other positive discussion. We need to bring our opinions to the table - they want us to be heard.


    oh crimein.... why bother.

     
  3. Django211

    Django211 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 1999
    You do know that gimp can refer to GNU Image Manipulation Program right? What am I saying of course you do.

    Now bring out the gimp, err I mean mentally challenged. :rolleyes:
     
  4. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2001
    Hmm, I see. I hear the word gimby thrown around all the time and don't think much of it. I got the impression that Binary thought his face appeared that way somehow in the closing shot, and din't read too much into it. Anyway, that's just my opinion. I just wanted to get some examples on the table so everyone was on the same page. Thank you for posting them. I will add I agree that modding against posts like that is taking it too far. It's one thing if someone's telling GL to go blank himself and then goes on and on about how he's an evil blank. But snide marks about Hayden's face in ROTJ, well, I think we mods will need overtime pay if we have to start modding against things like that ;)
     
  5. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    By all means, if it's gimpy used the proper term then I stand corrected. I'm very sorry. :)

    Since we're talking about a focus group, and the conversation seems to have circled back on itself, we need to either move on to other stuff or lock. Stryphe has pretty much explained his reasoning several times and I think we've come full circle. Stryphe, you'll be getting back to those selected, right? I know we've discussed it in MS, so it appears in the next couple of days those of you taking part will hear of it.
     
  6. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    I'm seeing my beloved "defenders" thread being tossed around in here so I have to say something -actually, I was going to chime in earlier but been tied up with other stuff but I digress.

    You know, I really don't see why the "Basher's Sanctuary" had to be closed. Did the 'films not the fans' rule get broken too many times?* Has tF.N become such a nanny place where everything that offends must be cut out and sanitised? what ever happend to common sense?? You don't want to read about your film of choice being bashed? How about simply not clicking on the thread?

    I didn't agree with a lot of the 'Bashers', but once in a while I would peek and get a giggle - hell, one of the funniest sigs on the boards could be found almost exclusively in the Sanctuary - along the lines of "Star Wars the next Special edition 'Alderraan shoots first'" ( [face_laugh][face_laugh][face_laugh] )

    The 'Bashers' kept the 'hate' in the thread. If you found the posters anywhere else in the forums, you realy wouldn't know how deeply held their dislike of the aspects of the other films was.

    Good greif, guys, cut the old timers a little slack, and reopen the Sanctuary.

    Breezy

    *I have real doubts about it. Stryphy, Strillo and even the thread regulars kept a real tight rein on things.
     
  7. Grand_Moff_Jawa

    Grand_Moff_Jawa Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 31, 2001



    Believe me, I've read professional critic's reviews that were FAR less kind.


    Edit: To put it simply, the Basher's Sanctuary was a real-world sampling of the types of Star Wars fans out there in the world. To close it was an injustice. I've read FAR worse on forums that don't filter profanity. Believe me, the BS was one of the tamer threads I've been to.

    What exactly was violated in the TOS anyway?
     
  8. Pyrus

    Pyrus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 1998

    User agrees and acknowledges that any posts, nicknames or other material deemed offensive, harassing, baiting or otherwise inappropriate may be removed at the sole discretion of the administration.



    Those are the only parts that really matter regarding content, the TOS is at least a pretty short dead end compared to most.

     
  9. Grand_Moff_Jawa

    Grand_Moff_Jawa Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 31, 2001


    But removing an entire thread that's been around for years????
     
  10. Pizza-the-Hutt

    Pizza-the-Hutt Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    But why does the perception of the Sanctuary have to be changed? From what I understand, Strilo wanted the Sanctuary closed beacuse he wants the forums to become one humogenous community, rather than a community split up into communities. Hence why all the defence forces, and Sanctuary had to go. I might not agree with that view, but I can understand it. I don't see Strilo changing his mind, no matter what the bashers do because he has a problem with similar threads en masse. I might have misunderstood him but I think that's his view.

    From what you're saying above, it seems that other mods have a problem with the Sanctuary for other reasons, aimed soley at bashers. That's why you want bashers to change their image? But if a basher violates the TOS he/she is punished like anybody else. So what, do some mods believe that bashers have a bad attitude? That's why you always had to defend the Sanctuary behind the scenes?

    Seriously though, all jokes aside, where? Is this part of what the focus group will be talking about?
     
  11. LiteSpeed

    LiteSpeed Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 9, 2004
    Thanks DarthBreezy. =D=

    There are 2 possible reasons for the sanctuarys closure:

    1) The reasons being given.

    Wholly spurious and specious, and involving mearly an endless assertion of postion and ignoring any logical refutation. Theres been a lot of talk of 'reason' and 'debate' in here. Frankly I'm not seeing much from the other side. Endless Straw man arguments against both the BS and its members, false analogy and plain ignorance in some cases.

    There isn't a problem 1/3 of bashers, theres a problem 1/3 of users and the issue really is about bashing OUTSIDE the sanctuary, whereas everyone keeps trying to address it as a matter of bashing INSIDE. Those efforts are doomed to failure because they are simply futile.

    It seems so bloody obvious.
    Open a new sanctuary (same rules), but ban bashing/sarcasm outside of it.
    Everybodies happy. Of course its not perfect because bashers feel they should be able to express themselves everywhere, while mods, admins and users who take Rhonderoos position feel everyone should just chat nicely. This is whats called a COMPROMISE. It keeps the maximum number of users at these boards, because there is a place for everything. The place of principle contact with new users (film forums) becomes much calmer and non-threatening (and statistically its more often than not a hardcore gusher who will see of a new user for daring to be critical) , while the backwaters of the boards still have some bite to keep things interesting. Nobodies asking for the BS to be made excempt the TOS are they?


    2) More serious, but a possibility I can't really sure about which is why I mentioned 'interesting' timing as to the closure. This is actaully the only reason that if true has proper justification.

    The BS has an effective unspoken accusation being made against it of being used as a base for trolling the classic forum during the OOT DVD issue. This is always dealt with severely by the administration and will result in threads being locked. If so, this accusation will remain unspoken because it is demonstratably false. Effectively a gusher mod who didn't like the swing in opinion from usually pro-Lucasfilm fans towards the bashers pulled the plug on the sanctuary. It was closed when the most active thread in community, and clearly within TOS (admitted even by Strilo).

    There were people I'd never seen being critical before complaining over the issue in that classic forum thread. There's a gusher who pops into the sanctuary every now and then to criticise basher opinions. Even he made a very critical post of Lucsfilm over this issue. Even Strilo wasn't too impressed with the email sent out from the PR department.

    Lucasfilm has its biggest fan PR faux pas in years, and the basher sanctuary gets closed.
    Go figure.



     
  12. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    I can assure you that the locking of the Sanctuary had NOTHING to do with either the announcement that the O-OT was coming out on DVD or the subsequent info about the less-than-standard quality of the release. David and I had already set the exact timetable for the decision based on his time away, my time away and the anniversary of Star Wars on May 25th.
     
  13. LiteSpeed

    LiteSpeed Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 9, 2004
    Ok, fair enough. I'm quite happy thats ruled out.
    There's no accusation of trolling either.
    Didn't look good though did it.

    But that just makes the closure even less credible as I said.
    Your still not answering the refutations of your reasoning.

    EDIT : for clarity
     
  14. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    This thread could go on for 100s of pages. I have no more of a chance of having my reasons understood by some than I do of convincing "bashers" that TPM was a masterpiece.
     
  15. Hudnall

    Hudnall Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2004

    I love you.

     
  16. LiteSpeed

    LiteSpeed Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 9, 2004
    Understood?

    No, there's no confusion about what anyone thinks you think Strilo, they are saying your wrong and giving arguments as to why. You just continue to do your 'I am the law! Do not question me little user!' routine.

    Your avoiding debate, because frankly you'll lose.
    You got it wrong, and your making everybody look bad including the other mods because of that basher sanctaury bee in your bonnett that you've always had.

    How many other mods have to come over as complete hypocrites to cover for you Strilo?
    Doesn't that bother you?
    I mean I realise you couldn't care less about the bashers, but I would have thought you'd have some unselfish concerns for how they look, because the adminisration looking like that is bad for the community generally, something you claim to have concern for. Your not bigger than the administation are you? Its always bad for everyone to have this kind of dispute going on. There's already been several foot in mouth incidents from MS members in this thread, not least of which from DarthSapient. Thats not good Strilo. Thats embarrasing.

    You could resolve this whole issue and get everybody off the hook that you put them on.
    But you won't. Don't want to lose face right?
    Thats selfish.
    And not just to the bashers either.

     
  17. Hudnall

    Hudnall Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2004
    We do UNDERSTAND your reasons.

    It's just that your reasons are at best - wrong and a poor decision; and at worst - a cover for your own resentment and animosity towards us.



    EDIT ADDING: Oh my, LiteSpeed - you beat me to it. Ha.
     
  18. FatBurt

    FatBurt Sex Scarecrow Vanquisher star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    While errors may have been made it appears that the mods of the forum are wanting to go forwards with something new.


    Because this is entirely contrary to what you want the bashers are understandably up in arms.



    IMO Strilo has conceded that errors may have been made but as he wants the forum to be a productive and happy place he is setting up a focus group so that those for, against and fence sitters can pass on their views and try to come to a sensible consensus.



    Whether the closing of the BS is a good idea I don't know as I never posted there but the mods are wanting a fresh start with something new.

    Why not give it a try and wait to see what the focus group brings up.


    You may end up with the BS back, you may not, you could also end up with a compromise that covers the wishes of both but with a couple of limitations.



    Decisions are often made that go against what a group of people want and when they are controversial like this it can cause antagonism.

    Strilo and Stryphe have tried to explain why they have done what they have done but they were constantly harangued from the off along with the whole of the mod squad, along with accusations of lying and conspiracies behind the mods picking on a group of users.


    Benefit of the doubt time, why not work on the assumption that what the forum mods did they actually did for the best of the board. It may be the wrong decision but let the focus group work on that.



    Stopping the attacks on the mods as well would be a good start as they will be more likely to respond without having to be defensive, one of them has already refused to give reasons due to the abuse they got.

     
  19. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    I think we've had a good discussion here and I appreciate everyone's involvement. We're going in circles now and the discussion has moved back to where were four pages ago. The result of this thread is the Focus Group that Stryphe has started. Those of you that will be asked to participate have been sent notices. Those of you who aren't in the group, we'll keep you updated. For now, I'm locking this so we can move on.
     
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