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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate Terror attacks in Europe

Discussion in 'Community' started by slightly_unhinged, Jan 7, 2015.

  1. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    According to reports, a french muslim police officer, Ahmend Mirabet, was killed defending the offices of Charlie Hebdo.

    Jabba-wocky Foreign Affairs is better.
     
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  2. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    You are missing the point. You don't need any organization to murder me and my loved ones. You only need a zealot with a 2ND AMENDMENT CERTIFIED gun and the belief on the Man from Space to murder me and/or my loved ones. I live in South Florida. I've seen some ****.
     
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  3. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Geert Wilders has already been at it; "Islam is toch vrede en liefde"? (Is Islam still peace and love?) and the best: "Waneer dringt het eindelijk door bij Rutte en andere westerse regeringsleiders: het is oorlog".

    Debo, SuperWatto - is he saying something about the message finally being clear for Rutte and other Western leaders: "it is war"? I am certain he is, but it's a bit more complicated than my basic Dutch covers.
     
  4. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

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    May 4, 2003
    I'd very much agree. It's the deserving academic flagship, and what I usually turn to when I want to understand a foreign policy issue.
     
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  5. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    They also tend to have some of the best minds, and not PhD students, writing for them (one of our preeminent FP scholars, Hugh White, has written several times for Foreign Affairs).
     
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  6. Chyntuck

    Chyntuck Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Here in Greece the very first official reaction was from Adonis Georgiadis (current parliament spox for the governing party, former minister of health, defector from extreme-right party LAOS to New Democracy and all-around fascist lunatic on Twitter), minutes after the attack was announced on the news: "The attack in Paris may prove to be the end of innocence in Europe when it comes to Islam." Of course he had to blame it on the opposition, so he adds: "And meanwhile SYRIZA are talking of opening the borders."

    EDIT: Screenshot of the prime minister on state TV

    [​IMG]

    Title bar reads: "Samaras: Look at what happened in France, and here some people [i.e. SYRIZA] are 'distributing' naturalizations."
     
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  7. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    The thing is, I think Europe is at a point at which discussing what European identity is needs to happen, again, as the EU's a mixed back of successes and failures. But the issue is that one side wants to pretend no such debate is necessary, and the other wants to use it to further an agenda of neo-fascism.

    Add a tragedy like this to the mix and you can forget about any form of objective assessment of what the EU's role in the 21st century is.
     
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  8. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    One of PP's [Republican Party of Spain, for you Americans] old-timers has said, and I quote: "After today's attack, I doubt Podemos [Spain's Syriza, for you Americans] defends my freedom". Because monkey purple dishwasher.
     
  9. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001

    (Maybe you mean "Spain's Democrats"? not Syriza?)

    Well obviously, the left support socialism, terrorism and all the Islams!
     
  10. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 21, 2002
    No, Podemos are basically the radical left.
     
  11. tom

    tom Chosen One star 8

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    Mar 14, 2004
    well put by salman rushdie:

    “Religion, a mediaeval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today. I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity. ‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion.’ Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.”
     
  12. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

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    Aug 16, 2002
    What does a country in the Middle East have to do with anything? :confused: [face_flag]
     
  13. Chyntuck

    Chyntuck Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 11, 2014
    Well, we could try to explain to Ender that Podemos and Syriza are also democrats (as in democratic parties, not US style Democrats.) Wait, no. Maybe not. :p
     
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  14. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Nah, he knows his foreign politics. I even suspect he was mockingly referring to Pablo Iglesias's comments about their program being basically the program of Spanish social-democracy before they sold out
     
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  15. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 3, 2002
  16. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001

    America hasn't got a left, so you have to make false comparisons so they can pause a moment and go ohhhh and nod, even though they don't understand and will be thinking about how Obama is probably at fault.

    I love this quote so much.
     
  17. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    I'm very curious about the word "disrespect" -- Rushdie's quote was the second time I saw it, while the first time was when Twinnie used it. The idea is that disrespect is essential to democracy -- I think maybe we need to use a different word. I wasn't going to say anything at first since it was a non-native speaker who used the term, but Rushdie is a writer who's been familiar with English since he was born and is not one to be imprecise.

    To me, disrespect means being uncivil -- but I suppose both of them are using disrespect in the sense of "not above criticism." At least, I think so anyway? I would agree that nothing should be considered too sacred to discuss openly, and to criticize as appropriate. And certainly that nobody should have fear of being jailed, hurt, or killed for being "disrespectful" of a religion, government, or a sports team (especially as impiety and/or blasphemy used to be excuses to jail people for political reasons).

    But at the same time, that doesn't mean open license to be rude and dismissive towards things that people hold fairly dearly. Like, it's always weird to me the sort of glee that some people get over it. Being allowed to without repercussion and being uncivil are two different things.
     
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  18. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 3, 2002
  19. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Chosen One star 5

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    Feb 15, 2000
    I think being rude and dismissive is exacly what "disrespect" means, although rude is very subjective. If I tell a religious person that he he/she is delusional because he/she believes in fairy tales then I guess I'm being rude and disrespectful. If so, that is exactly what Rushdie is getting at. This is what Dawkins is about as well, undeserved respect given to religion and religious ideas. Personally, I respect religious beliefs but that is apersonal choice dictated latrgely by the fact that I am around religious people alot.
     
  20. Mortimer Snerd

    Mortimer Snerd Force Ghost star 4

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    Dec 27, 2012

    I think he was using the term "disrespect" in much the same way the term "civil disobedience" is used, but I could be wrong.
     
  21. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    I think you're focusing on too narrow a point, Iello. I think Rushdie's more suggesting that should we wish to draw a comic of the Prophet which has a blithe indifferent to how sacrosanct he's meant to be, we should do it and not have to worry about violent reprisals. That we should be free to mock, question and denigrate religion without somebody deciding that the impudence can only be dealt with lethally.

    To that point, I agree wholly with the use of the term disrespect. When religion earns my respect, it shall have it but until then this is my message to all religions:

    [​IMG]
     
  22. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    I wholly agree with [t]his point, which is why I made my post about the word having unwanted connotations.

    Ditto here. No problems with that specific usage. I just think the word implies too many other things to be helpful.

    This is the part where I diverge, though. I mean, I can be understanding of the idea that religion is given an unusual amount of breathing room where other concepts aren't, and I can understand the frustrations about it, especially to those who see it as nothing more than -- as Rushdie put it -- medieval unreason. We treat religion with kid gloves.

    But I think there's a difference between being fair game for political discussions, satire, etc. (especially because if religion wants to impose its views on others, then others should get to say what they think of that!) and being rude, y'know?

    Obviously a hardcore theocrat might say any criticism of religious dogma is rude, but I'm talking about rude from the perspective of a Western secularized liberal democracy.
     
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  23. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    Only you would worry about ensuring one's elbows are off the table before sticking an irreverent fork in the plate of religion.
     
  24. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    I guess you have me pegged there. I value politesse and civility as its own end as far as a social good :p
     
  25. Chyntuck

    Chyntuck Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 11, 2014
    I don't thing the word "disrespect" had unwanted connotations for Rushdie. I think he means, very literally, that a democracy does not only give you the right to be irreverent, but also the right to be outright rude and foul-mouthed, and that this right should be exercised and protected. It's also a very apt word to describe some of what Charlie Hebdo did, and what is interesting about them is that they managed to be at the same time disrespectful and serious as a newspaper.
     
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