Discussion in 'Community' started by slightly_unhinged, Jan 7, 2015.
This has nothing to do with Taqiyya. People who learn of Taqiyya overstate how Muslims use it.
How Muslims use it is one thing. How jihadists corrupt it is a different matter...
You don't understand. A jihadist lying about their extremism simply has nothing to do with Taqiyya. It's just lying. You and others trying to link it to Taqiyya are wrong. Taqiyya is a specific case of a Muslim denying their faith in the face of persecution. anything else simply isn't Taqiyya. It's just lying.
Of course it's lying - and yet this is exactly how it ends up being presented by some jihadists: denying their faith in the face of persecution or (for examples of enormous corruption) lying about the depth of their conviction or sinning to conceal themselves.
I didn't bring up the origins of Islam (when it was persecuted) or a Christian parallel (with Peter on the eve of passion) for no reason - I do understand what it's meant to be. Alas, humans are humans, and they'll abuse and corrupt anything.
You don't know that this is what's happening. So there's no reason for you to try to tie it to Taqiyya. Has some terrorist somewhere tried to justify lying about being a terrorist by using Taqiya. Maybe. But you don't know that it's happening in this case, so starting some nonsense about how "he could be using Taqiya to fool the deradicalization program!" is just islamophobic fearmongering. Chances are a lot of things could have happened: the program could have simply failed, he could have been re-radicalized after passing the program, he's good at lying, etc. There's no need or justification for you or anyone to link it to established Islamic concepts, especially when those concepts have nothing to do with this.
And again another happy, resociated soul. The general public is incredibly happy.
The "no reason" is that this terrorist was Sunni
@Lord Vivec I didn't declare the link as established, and did bring up the notion but also its context and parallels in other religion. Obviously, that such corruption happens is what brought it up to mind, but if I were really out to fearmonger about Islam, why would I bring up Taqiyya has a perfectly legitimate origin - a practice of the persecuted - or that it's not unique to Islam?
I apologize if I made you feel I was fearmongering, but no, that's not my motive at all.
I just consider it as irrelevant to what's happening with this terrorist as, say, a million other things. And you should too. There's simply no reason to bring up the notion.
The notion came to mind, its invocation by perpetrators does happen sometimes, and I do find the historical origins of the notion itself and the parallels interesting. Feel free to flag me if you think it should not have been brought up.
I only report people who srspost in the ****posting thread, so no. I much prefer to argue my side.
I also much prefer to argue my side. I just can't share your opinion about automatic irrelevancy because there have been precedents here that did, unfortunately, make the corruption of the notion relevant to the aftermath of terror attacks in Europe. And again, I do agree that when jihadists bring it up, it's just wrong - which is why I'd brought up history and a parallel from the beginning.
As an atheist, I certainly found it irrelevant.
I would expect someone to just lie and pretend when forced to undergo a program designed to change their views. Any views. Doesn't even have to involve religion. I would expect the same during workplace diversity programs, and I know it happens.
In fact, I've already done a mild form of it as a child when pressured by Christians to participate in Christian practices. I just lied and pretended.
I didn't find it even the least bit interesting or relevant that Islam has a word for denying your faith when under duress. It did indeed come off as fearmongering. Like it was a policy for terrorist infiltrators and sleeper agents. Well, you know, Muslims have word for that. I have words for that, too. Lying and self-preservation. Anyone would lie to avoid death, torture, or long term imprisonment.
Very well. My apologies, then.