Mini Series The Acolyte 1.07 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

It bordered on creepy, actually. And I think that’s because no writing work was done to sell that obsession as something spiritually meaningful or profound or what have you. Sol just states “she was meant to be my padawan,” Indara is like “you’re weird, stop it” and that’s that. I get that Headland may very well be doing that on purpose to highlight what she feels is a weird, creepy and unhealthy Jedi practice of training kids, but it’s too blunt and simplistic to work. And so Sol just comes across as an obsessive creep. I’m afraid this is where I sense the shades of TLJ, but not in a positive way, as in last episode. This is a stripping down of the Jedi to a few negative traits that feels too one-note or polemical. Definitely a step down from last episode.

Finally, I think the flashbacks should’ve been sprinkled throughout the season, rather than contained in two episodes. Unfold the mystery more organically.

 

I think Sol is meant to parallel Yord and Torbin in this regard, wanting to be a "worthy" Jedi, doing important things, and specifically for Sol, feeling the pressure and failure of never being given a Padawan well past the age a Jedi usually would have, and so "feeling a connection to Osha" is really more about him feeling the answer to his problem is right there.

Maybe? I dunno.

 

I took it as Indara forcefully breaking the mental hold on Kelnacca resulted in the death of the witches controlling him. It seemed a reasonable explanation to me.
On first watch, I didn't really like how the Mother Aniseya slaying happened, either. I'll have to re-watch it.

Set up the mystery and pay if off in the same episode.
Show everything we saw in episode 3 with the added context we saw in episode 7, and do it all in one episode. Don't hide anything from the viewer with the intention of presenting scenes out of context. The Rashomon effect wasn't profound enough to warrant the double episode, in my opinion.

 

So, Mother Koril didn't die right?

 

This is fair, and I also had another issue with that: you know, Sol has just arrived into this community, of which he knows nothing about. Yet he immediately starts pontificating about their own practices and rituals, and the ways they grow up their kids. Of course we can always make the case that he had his own reasons to be concerned, but I found it a bit off putting.

 

To me, this was a weird, badly executed episode.

(1) Torbin is written like a pouty six year old. I wanna go home, I am bored, I wanna LEAAAAVE. Ugh. That's his major temptation? That's Mother Anasheya's doorway to tempt him...with the Dark Side? And if that wasn't meant to be a Dark Side temptation, it was sure shot like one. And because of this incident he meditated for ten years or so and committed suicide in seconds? Sorry, not seeing it.
(2) Sol's behavior was portrayed as extremely bizarre. He was emotionally way way way over the top, obsessed with Osha in a way that came off as super creepy and strange, insubordinate and just all over the place. Hey, maybe that's the intent. They allude to him maybe being told by/through the Force that he was MEANT to train Osha, but that is very much undersold when contrasted to him simply acting weirdly focused on Osha and there isn't a well-done "spiritual" argument being made.
(3) Master Indara was all over the place, in terms of motivation and characterization, which is, unfortunately a trait of this show. Characters change direction on a dime. She's by the book, she's not by the book, she's probably the best example of a Stoic, balanced Jedi until of course she isn't. Again, ugh. Interestingly, she's the one responsible for...the witches all being knocked out (were they killed? The series implies they were, but all we see is them dropping... is their definitive fate resolved yet?) ... and she appears to be the one of the party least racked with guilt.
(4) The twins being "in danger" was, to me, never convincingly sold as a reasonable assumption for Sol to make - and I am not all that sympathetic to the witches, meaning I was willing to give the Jedi the benefit of the doubt. "They aren't training them like children" because of him (Sol) seeing some Force-push training? Ummmmm.....
(5) The fire.... at least here it was made more visually clear that there was some kind of flammable...liquid?....involved. Although again, it did appear that a structure made mostly of stone and steel went up like a wooden building.

I do have to rewatch with a focus on Mother Koril's comments and actions. She seemed to be encouraging Mae to "use her anger" and such, to lean into a Dark Side direction.

Overall, found the episode jarring, out of synch in terms of characterization and motivation, just all over the place.

 

Unless we see a different perspective on what happened in the next episode…I think the Mother Aniseya slaying was botched. Why not immediately say to Sol that you were going to let Osha train with the Jedi? Why wait until the Jedi stabs you in the chest before delivering this crucial information that would’ve likely prevented getting stabbed in the chest by a Jedi? Why make what looks like a hugely threatening witch-attack or whatever towards the Jedi, and then as you die, say “Ummmm, I was actually gonna cooperate.” Castle of Auuuughhhhh-level Monty Python silliness there.

I was also disappointed in the episode, but I believe you missed the part where Mae tells the Jedi that she and Osha will be sacrificed by the coven. At that point, Indara is convinced of Sol’s position on intervening to save the twins. Though I suspect we will soon learn that Mae didn’t mean that literally, but socially. Sacrificing the individual for the whole.

 

dp

 

This is something that ought to have just been shown in ep 3 as it lead to unintended speculation from fans about the nature of the fire which ended up being a nothingburger.

 

Hey, I saw you in this episode! How did you get off the Island?

 

I didn't. Hurley brought wifi.

But seriously I wonder if Hedland is a Lostie. There's a lot of Lost here with the two siblings, the one who wants to leave, one who wants to stay, their crazy smoke monster mother, flawed protectors who bear responsibility for the villains, etc.

 

The "sacrifice" thing would certainly be a red flag, although I agree with you that it almost certainly was not meant literally.

As with much of this show, when the core ideas aren't necessarily bad, the execution is often lacking. I can imagine a situation where the Jedi observe the coven for some time, at first covertly, then interacting with them, and having mounting concerns that get discussed between Indara and Sol, with Indara leaning in the "hands off" direction and Sol in the "we need to intervene" direction, where ultimately some trigger event forces their hand or changes Indara's mind, etc. Given the sympathies of the show I doubt the event would paint the witches in an unambiguously bad light, but regardless. As it was, to me, it was rushed, Sol's intensity was bizarre, and people act as strangely or stupidly as necessary to generate the desired outcome.

 

I need to know how that spread from an electrical panel on the wall to the generator exploding and destroying the entire complex.

 

What actually is this building? I mean it seems unlikely the Sisters built it.

whatever it is it could do with some fire extinguishers.

 

Have to agree on all points. This show has extremely poorly written character motivations. They simply don't have any understandable motivations to act towards. Torbin wants back home, such a naughty dirty desire indeed... The scene where Aniseya "seduces" him is unintentionally hilarious for this reason. It's as if he has something dark in him. Homesickness... lol is he like 5-year old?

Indara acts irritated and stuck-up all the time for no reason. It's like Carrie Ann-Moss doesn't want to be there and it shows.

What Aniseya is doing by turning into cringe horror movie effect? What is Sol doing by stabbing her to death? What the hell is happening there it was weird and no one says anything to ease the tension while both sides have strong arguments actually to reach the compromise. Aniseya should've told Sol that before all escalated and yet she goes on some strange magic mode and freak out Sol who end up killing her... okay that happened and Mae saw it. Making it pointless for Sol to tell this entire story to Mae in the last episode...

Also creating problem with previous scenes where Mae doesn't tell this to Osha (Sol killed our mother!) while she has all reason to do this. It just makes no sense as million other things in this show...

Well we saw wookiee in action now but it was too little too late really. And if he was in full control of the witches he could've easily killed Torbin but instead he didn't. Same problems as in choreography before (in episode 5) while otherwise it looked kinda nice.

But this show is such a mess but told in overly convoluted way...

And that song in the ending credits... doesn't belong to Star Wars...

Yeah this just makes no sense. It's like one little fire and suddenly it starts explosions on another levels.

It's like ancient version of Galen Erso had built internal weakness in the fortress that it can be easily destroyed by lighting up one fire and it all goes boom!

 

They said it was an old mining station.

Honestly, Torbin just wanting to go home kinda works for me. Having something mundane triggering disaster is more realistic than having some grand noble cause all the time. He just wanted to do something small and seemingly insignificant, saw no problem with it and then messed up everything.

"Sure, a Jedi shouldn't put their needs above the mission or the lives of others, but this is such a meaningless thing that I doubt it will cause any harm. I just wanna go home".

And maybe Aniseya possessing him had the consequence of making the desire stronger and more irrational.

 

I think Sol's "obsession" is clearly set up in e3, but that's so long ago I'm not surprised people forgot. He tells osha that he was taken when he was five and this is obviously a memory that weighs on him and was both transformative and traumatic. This is why he has such poor boundaries with both padawans -- he longs to be a father, he longs to have a family like the one he lost. So of course he's going to want to save the girls to fill that hole in his life.

 

But how does the fire cause explosions on another levels?

It's quite flammable for a stone building. It has some wooden structures yes, but not nearly enough to explain how fire spread so quickly. It is so weird how everything starts exploding all of the sudden. Is there like oil pipes everywhere or something? Should've been explained or shown more clearly.

 

Mother Aniseya wanted to exploit Torbin's simplest weakness to send the Jedi out of there. I think she wanted to cause discord between the knights. Her plan backfired.

 

ok cheers, missed that bit.

So there were people there before the Sisters? And yet the Jedi thought it was uninhabited...?

 

It wasn't explained or shown very well. I'm assuming the fire spread through the electrical network that were within the stone walls. Any device connected to the system started short-circuiting and going off and the generator overloaded and exploded.

Considering IRL home electrical fires account for around 51 thousand fires every year, I wouldn't say an old mining station probably having outdated electrical circuits being susceptible to catching fire is much of a stretch.

There were people there a hundred years before. But after the Great Hyperspace Disaster, the planet turned into a desolate wasteland unsustainable for life. The fact that it is suddenly thriving with life is what got the Jedi research team there to investigate. Indara explains that in the beginning of the episode.

 

"And...there's something about this boy"

"I'll take that bet. I wage my new racing pod against say...the boy and his mother."

"The boy then."

"I have encountered a vergence in the force."

"He is the chosen one. You must see it!"

"I take Anakin as my padawan learner."

"Promise me you will train the boy. He is the chosen one. He will bring balance. Train him."

The difference between Sol's obsession with Osha and Qui-Gon's with Anakin is that we had a full length film to see everything going on and Shmi and Watto were not imminent threats to Anakin's safety. Whereas Sol was rightly concerned about the witches. Only Mother Aniseya was willing to do what was right and she failed to make that clear the minute Sol and Torbin entered. Instead, the witches were ready to open fire. Sol reacted to the danger he saw. Worth noting as well that he was younger than Qui-Gon was and so he lacked some of Qui-Gon's experience and wisdom here. But the situation and urgency were different which is why Sol acts more decisively.

Now, the real question is if Torbin had not acted, what would have happened? Likely, Mother Aniseya would have saved Osha. Then again, Osha had already escaped- so it's possible Mae could have still killed her mother if she could not put out the fire and died trying to rescue Osha. What is clear is the other witches were against Mother Aniseya and the Jedi Council had ordered Indara's team to stay. Given that, it may well be that a conflict was inevitable between Korril and the others and the four Jedi. Torbin and Sol just accelerated things.

 

I think my biggest issue with the episode is that the "actual" version of events that transpired on Brendok were not shocking or revelatory enough to warrant their own entire episode, never mind stringing audiences along after them for the entire season. I think Headland was so focused on making sure that neither side came out overtly in the wrong that the whole thing ended up feeling a little underwhelming, just a misunderstanding between a small handful of irrational people while the rational ones got caught up in it. I mean, we could've guessed after Episode 3 that Sol's obsession with rescuing the girls caused events to spiral out of control, that the Jedi had good intentions, and that everyone else got caught up in that. The specifics, like Sol killing Aniseya and the discussion of the coverup on the ship, could have been covered in a couple of flashback scenes, IMO.

 

The unseen explosion still feels unresolved, and I assume it's intentional.