TV Discussion The Ahsoka Tano Mega Thread Power Hour

hairymuggle

^Then say that. Not 'stupid little gossip sessions' .

 

She can be portrayed as wiser than most, but that does not mean she is portrayed as always doing the wisest thing - I have "conceded" she is not portrayed as perfect. She is portrayed as the "standard" to which other Jedi are measured.

 

First, I'm glad that you see that "How can I trust myself" is ridiculous.

So, you're saying that her finale in TCW was TCW portraying Ahsoka as immature, ridiculous, wrong, not wise, and had nothing to do with the flaws of the Jedi Order (despite Filoni saying otherwise, as AFS1983 pointed out)? Is that what you're saying? So her TCW finale is TCW going "Ahsoka is being so ridiculous right now, she's so wrong for leaving the Jedi Order"? Is that why they had the Council acting ludicrously stupid and patently unfair? Is that why the whole situation is patently unfair? They did all that they did so they can show how ridiculous and wrong Ahsoka was? Is that why they have her go off into the sunset, so she can survive, while the rest of the Order falls?

But yes, "how can I trust myself" is ridiculous. It's the equivalent of "it's not you, it's me." And we know that means the complete opposite.

I don't think the mistakes you mentioned are mistakes at all. I, personally, don't think they're mistakes, and I don't think TCW is portraying them as mistakes. Ahsoka is being framed for a vicious crime she obviously did not commit (this was established from the very beginning, she wasn't even on planet). I don't think it's a mistake to try to escape this frame job, especially to prove one's innocence. Are we to believe that Harrison Ford was wrong to escape in The Fugitive? Ahsoka's escape does eventually lead to proof of her innocence. So was it really a mistake? The Republic and the Jedi Order are both portrayed as corrupt, stupid, and patently unfair. Is Ahsoka wrong, is she making a mistake, in trying to escape their corruption?

Not to mention that Ahsoka pretty much sticks to the Jedi way during her time as a fugitive. At no point is she portrayed as going down the wrong path, at no point does she have a brush with the dark side. Is she acting out of fear? If she is, there's no hint of it leading to the dark side. She insists that no innocents are killed. She remains a Jedi, even as she is being persecuted. Blaming herself in the end is actually a bit of martyrdom(!), as ridiculously stupid as that is.

You're saying that...TCW is saying that Ahsoka should have just stayed in her cell? That's the story TCW was telling? Maybe she'd like it back in her cell?

Ahsoka Tano literally escapes the corruption of the Jedi Order and the Republic in her final arc of TCW. She does so literally, she escapes an unjust arrest, an unjust Jedi Council, and an unjust conviction. I don't see how this could be taken as anything other than Ahsoka breaking away from (and therefore triumphing over) the doomed, corrupt, flawed Jedi Order of the PT. This isn't even in metaphorical or symbolic terms, it's quite literal, quite plain. It's not subtext that you have to read underneath the text, it is the text. It actually happens, it actually plays out, literally in front of our faces, with no ambiguity. It's so plain it can be understood in a simple Wookieepedia summary.

Indeed.

 

I dare you to say that to Carrie Fisher. I dare you.

 

There's this weird discrepancy that I observe. On one hand people call her brash, inexperienced, annoying and on the other hand people claim she was portrayed as "perfect" and "Mary Sue" and "put on a pedesdal" by Filoni. Sometimes it is even one single individual that makes these contradictory claims, I have seen it happen.

I must admit that I often get the impression that people are reaching for reasons, justifications on why they don't like her.

For the record I like Ahsoka but I never thought she was flawless or better than her teachers Obi-Wan and Anakin.

As for the Jedi Council, they've been betrayed as idiots multiple times now, not just in TCW, also in Dark Disciple for example. Any Prequel Jedi protagonist ever will be put in juxtaposition with the council.

 

hairymuggle

Someone actually said Ahsoka and Barriss are "twin sisters"?

 

Oh yeah, that's right. She was Han's love interest, not Luke's. She was pretty good with a blaster though.

 

There's not really any discrepancy - her brashness is rewarded because whatever brash action she took was ultimately the correct action; her inexperience led to her doing things or urging actions that others didn't which resulted in correct outcomes that would not have otherwise occurred, etc.

Annoying - well, that is really in the eye of the beholder and there's not a lot of agreement on what about her is annoying or even if she is. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any particular reason I'd currently call her annoying or why I might have in the past.

 

Super Ahsoka 5000 SUX, new water canon being released by Nerf-Hasbro.


Problem with Ahsoka early on, especially in the TCW movie, was that she was annoying and a lot of the of the humorous bickering between her and Skywalker became very repetitious to the point it was like beating a dead horse. But the character evolved pretty fast and became likable. Whether that was due to the writers maturing and listening to criticism or both, who knows. I saw TCW movie while I was in my late 20's , so maybe the experience is different for the kids I don't know if they feel the same way. Some of that humor was made for the kids, like the Jar Jar or Ewok characters were for those respective movie entries. Tano surely belongs up their as a key SW character, I think she deserved it, but so does Mara Jade and quite a number of now Legends characters that were quite as good if not more so.

Perhaps Skywalker and Tano could'e benefited on the show with more episodes on training exercises akin to the Illum or Dagobah -style training or something, you know just them two alone learning about the Force in a more solemn and quieter atmosphere not everything being rushed due to the war or just a rushed job apprenticeship with learning on the field alone. I think we could've seen a more intimate bond rather than one of convenience due to the war plot and pairing and her being a sidekick to his superhero.

But at length, Tano and Skywalker worked, and Obi Wan being there also helped. TCW made Anakin a more likable character and perhaps more tragic, but it also made Obi Wan more likable too, he always came off weird in the prequels and often wooden. Tano really helped those two characters while she formed her own character.

 

People argue whether or not her actions during the so-called "fugitive" arc at the end of Season 5 were in fact warranted; the possibility that things would've been better for her from the very beginning if she allowed Anakin to help prove her innocence. The simple fact that the the Jedi Council threw her out based on circumstantial evidence made it clear to me that her trust of everyone close to her went out the window. It's anyone's guess what Anakin would have done differently had he had the opportunity to help her from the beginning. Bariss did a pretty good job of covering her tracks; up until the key point where Ventriss watched as Ahsoka contacted Bariss.

 

I was a bit annoyed by Ahsoka in TCW movie and thought her look and dialogue were grating, but then Ziro showed up and he took the cake for annoying in that movie (strangely, i would grow to become somewhat endeared to his weirdness later). It was pretty slow but Ahsoka really grew on me over the years, and I was pretty happy with the way she evolved as a character, she was fun and cool and the animation of her fight scenes were awesome. By the end she was like a friend that I looked forward to seeing in new adventures, like Luke, Han and Leia. I'll admit that the show getting cancelled enhanced the feeling of loss for that character and wanting to see more of her. So I would guess TCW and Ahsoka going away amped up a lot of the Ahsoka fans. Now, i'm really looking forward to seeing her adventures in Rebels and hopefully we'll someday get her other S7-8 TCW lost episodes animated.

I find it interesting that most of the vitriolic hate comes from those who were really attached to the EU and are upset that TCW changed the EU continuity. I think it may be a good exercise to consider Ahsoka outside of the EU having ever existed. But I think it's somewhat pointless because it becomes a logical debate on the character rather than a visceral love or hate towards the character. A lot of people like Ahsoka because she was cool and fun and they don't choose to pick apart the intricacies of her character and place in the saga. Not that folks can't do that in here, but it is an interesting dilemma, the logic vs. the visceral feeling on the character. As in some people just have a more emotional liking for her character that comes from the gut, rather than the head. Nothing wrong with that.

 

That's one reason i love that arc, that's exactly what she was doing. It was a great way for a family animated series to bring a somewhat hopeful ending to the show, by showing that even though the Jedi and everything in the Republic were going down the tubes, there was a way out for Ahsoka and the audience.

 

Well that's pretty much my take on the subject. The #1 argument against Ahsoka's character in the realm of SW in general was how it "disrupted the continuity". Anakin should never have had a Padawan apprentice; even though it's clear that he's essentially a full-blown Jedi general by the time the Clone Wars happens. And yet mysteriously enough many of these same people would defend events and actions in the PT movies that only raise more questions than answers when you consider the OT.

 

"That's one reason i love that arc, that's exactly what she was doing. It was a great way for a family animated series to bring a somewhat hopeful ending to the show, by showing that even though the Jedi and everything in the Republic were going down the tubes, there was a way out for Ahsoka and the audience."

So only Ahsoka was right?

I'll say it again:

No thank you Davey.

 

It didn't work out so well for her in Wrong Jedi and I believe she once caused the death of several soldiers under her command. She was "punished" for her brashness about as much as her old master was and sometimes even Obi-Wan. Do you remember the scene in ROTS when Obi-Wan dropped onto a platform in front of Grievous and thousand CIS droids? Talk about brash actions...

The truth of the matter is that most audience members like brash, impulsive, insane actions rather than dull, predictable ones. That's why action heroes in general are left off the hook when they try something crazy. People don't really want to see the hero break his/her neck during a wild stunt. Ahsoka is not an exception to this.

Large flaws are fun.

 

Nope, it was a no-win situation, the Jedi were trapped by the master spider. They didn't know how to get out of the web. Ahsoka saw it was a ****-show and got out of Dodge. The Jedi were noble and had good, but they were beleaguered. It's not a black or white thing. She could save herself, but she couldn't save them.

 

Oh, of course. Only noble Ahsoka could see what was happening. Only she saw through the evil Jedi's lies. And got out. Yep. That's what Davey wanted.

 

Nope, Yoda and Obi-Wan also saw it was a mess. Anakin did as well before the end, but his choice to deal with it was less than awesome. Ahsoka's choice could be debated as far as good for herself versus good for the greater universe. It could definitely be seen as selfish on her part, but i can see why she did it.

 

Meh, I thought what happened with Anakin was kinda awesome.



Ahsoka will have to step up her game if she wants to match that.

 

No, no, no, no. He wanted to show only his Fulcrum could escape without going bad like Ani. He cares for his pet characters, and to me them all look good. That's how it's always going to be. The others he didn't create will continue to suffer because of this.

And I'm done on that.

 

This is the "legacy" I remember most from PT Anakin/Vader