Lit The Archaeology and History Thread

She's not even that. She's more of a mercenary and thief really.

 

Now this makes me wonder if, just like certain aspects of technology (and even politics and aesthetics) remain mired in the 1970s, if not earlier, if there are some professions that just never developed past where they did in the eighteenth/nineteenth century in our world.

 

As someone who actually works in a museum myself, there are indeed artifact repatriation controversies and such still ongoing to this day. To my own museum's credit they generally side with the people requesting the repatriation, but others are not so obliging.

 

... really? Could you elaborate?

I know it's nosy and you're at perfectly liberty to decline, but I just finished Matthew Bogdanos' Thieves of Baghdad recently, (about the antiquities looting enabled by the Iraq War). And, well, I'm an Indy fan, so...

 

I do wonder-how amongst secular GFFA historians Jedi Sith conflicts would be viewed?

 

Random thought, but - how long does it take for some lost ship or outpost to go from "wreckage for salvage" to "archeological item for study"?

 

"Whatever amount of time is necessary for the technology to become obsolete" might be one answer.

 

Problem with that is that alot of ancient technology in Star Wars stories comes in the form of super-advanced, one-of-a-kind tech.

 

Why 200 BBY as a start date?

 

It can be even a few decades -- last year I was working on this stone wall that some people thought was an old 17th century fort foundation and others claimed was part of a support to prevent erosion in the 1960s. While it ended up being a fort, any 1960s stuff was considered part of the archaeological material.

Sometimes archaeologists excavate "recent" stuff to test the science of archaeology itself (ethnoarchaeology). For instance, I read this really cool study recently about some archaeologists who excavated a village in rural French Guiana that was abandoned in the 1990s when the government made the people move out. Most of them were still alive today. The archaeologists excavated the village prior to speaking with the former villagers, on purpose, so they could make unbiased predictions about what was going on at the site. Then they interviewed the old villagers and matched their interpretations with the true story. They were spot-on for some things and completely off for others (for instance, the village leader's hut was not the largest in the center, but a smaller one farther off to the side -- this was because he didn't like having people bugging him at his doorstep all the time, and he had a designated secretary living at the bigger hut to filter visitors). One guy returned to with the archaeologists to check out the site and found his old bike, which he took to repair and use again, even though it had been "excavated".

So yeah -- anything can be considered archaeological if you can make a case for it.

If you're interested in more on that topic, I'd recommend Skull Wars by David Hurst Thomas (excellent archaeologist) and The Rape of the Nile by Brian Fagan (another great archaeologist). The first is about the issue I think @Hamburger_Time was referring to, in that the US has a law now (the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act, or NAGPRA) that mandates federally-recognized tribes have a say in archaeological excavations and museum items that were associated with a burial. It's become a heated topic recently. The second is about all the stuff that was looted from Egypt, mostly by Europe. There were some crazy characters involved in that, like Giovanni Belzoni, who Aphra might have admired.

My job involves a lot of repatriating artifacts to a country that the US took a lot of stuff from in the last century. Usually it's not literally arresting people but just asking for stuff back, but sometimes the government or cops get involved if there's sketchy antiquities business going on behind the scenes. Or like recently I ran into a US expat who openly admitted he had used a metal detector to find stuff in an area he knew had artifacts, and he found a burial and basically looted it. He had no idea it was illegal so we're not going to bust him for it, but he's definitely going to be asked to give it back (if he refuses, then the legal battle comes in).

Antiquities laws in countries are usually not as severe as most laws, but sometimes they can have teeth. Sting operations have become hugely popular in recent years, although unfortunately it doesn't help the fact that the damage has already been done (for one example among many: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...l-native-american-artifacts-looted-180956959/).

 

One of my fantasy Things Hollywood Should Do/Things I Would Do If I Ever Wrote Fiction is a series in the Indiana Jones/Tomb Raider/Uncharted vein, but set in the fifties and sixties (i.e. the height of decolonization) and with a main character who's Egyptian, Indian, or otherwise from a recently decolonized country... who makes a living stealing back artifacts from places like Europe or North America and returning them to their country of origin wherever possible. The main story can still be the usual treasure hunt for some world-altering magical artifact, but the opening gambits showing the main character's day job would be that sort of thing.

I can even picture an introductory sequence, one that mirrors the opening of Raiders of the Lost Ark... Only instead of an abandoned temple in the jungle, the main character is robbing the Louvre. ("Take the idol without setting off a pressure plate," after all, works at least as well with modern security systems as it does ancient booby traps).

 

Thanks for explaining. That sounds like an incredibly interesting job. And I will definitely check out the books you recommend.

 

Interesting stuff. Thanks everyone!

Looks like salvaging in the Star Wars galaxy could be a legally tricky business then - with the galaxy's long history, it seems statistically likely that anything you find is probably under the realm of archeology - and per Dr. Aphra, only people with archeology doctorates can sell those legally.

 

HAHAHAHA. I mean I may have no background in archaeology or law, but come on archaeologists are like auctioneers with pickaxes right?

Seriously though your job sounds awesome Barriss!! Honestly really want to see an actual archaeologist or historian in the Aphra book. Her father may be better than her, but he is still more than a little compromised.

 

Yeah, that is a pretty silly plot point....

 

That's an interesting analysis-though the start of the galactic conflicts that would reshape the Galaxy began in 22 BBY. The minor conflicts, intrigues, and Sith scheming of course all led up to that-but 22 BBY seems like a good start date at least in terms of historical periodization.

 

Considering the political situation in some of the countries the artefacts were "borrowed" from, I would prefer they stay where they are. Not to mention way more people have a chance to see them when they're in places like London or Paris.

 

Isn't this a really inverted way of thinking about this? What destabilizes a nation like having its cultural heritage looted by a foreign power? What makes London or Paris a place where more people have a chance to "see them", if not the fact that they stole them in the first place?

 

Not my contribution, but: Crises of the 26th Millennium

 

One thing you kinda have to wonder with a society THAT old, though... was the 26th Millennium even all that crisis-filled in the grand scheme of things? I mean, the Pius Dea period lasted a thousand years. So did the "Dark Age" that climaxed in Ruusan and the rise of Darth Bane. The Sith straight-up sacked Coruscant multiple times (Sheev's coup looks almost bloodless by comparison). And who knows how many long-forgotten wars never documented in any source the Republic probably had to fight in all that time?

 

In my archaeology class I always have a debate session on the Elgin Marbles, which is exactly this issue. The Elgin Marbles were the figures on the Parthenon in Greece, which were stolen by a British dude (Elgin) in the early 1800s. They're in the British Museum now. Britain won't give them back because, as one politician defended it when Greece tried to get them back in the 1990s, "the volatile Greeks might easily start hurling bombs around again". Because England hasn't had anyone throwing bombs at it in the last 200 years.

The other issue is that the people who are most closely related to the creators of these objects often don't get to see them. Their most famous pieces of cultural heritage -- sometimes the only pieces -- are in other countries they can't afford to travel to.