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The Mandalorian The Armorer

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Current and Future Shows' started by Tan-Wessel, Nov 15, 2020.

  1. Tan-Wessel

    Tan-Wessel Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2001
    This thread is to discuss all things related to the Armorer.

    She seems to be the one in charge of the Children of the Watch on Nevarro. With recent events involving Bo-Katan's introduction into the show, I'm beginning to change my entire view on the Armorer.

    Her helmet rule, what little she does tell Din about the Jedi and everything else. She's sus.

    Death Watch with Maul splits when Satine is killed. So you have the Night Owls and Maul's Super Comandos, who start wearing black/red armor and other affectations to honor Maul. The Armorer has the horns on her head which implies she was part of the side of Death Watch that sided with Maul and at the end of TCW we see a significant number of them arrested with the implication being this off-shoot of Death Watch is considered an enemy of Mandalore.

    If Bo-Katan represents one side of the split of Death Watch and a legitimate claim by lineage to ruling Mandalore, she needs an opposite. If there was a counterpart to her on the Maul side of Death Watch, also having a legitimate claim by lineage, that could fall in line with the Armorer's actions.

    Bo and her team seem fully aware of not just a cult off-shoot, but of their particular rules and adherence to a version of the ancient ways. If the Armorer is the main person in-charge of The Tribe/Children of the Watch, then let's relook at her activities.

    All those empty shells of armor in the sewers. Are we really to believe that Stormtroopers and Deathtroopers took out everyone down there? Maybe the Armorer did it to her own Tribe for reasons we don't know yet. Perhaps CoW and their recruitment of Foundlings is all part of her scheme to rebuild Maul's Death Watch and survive, while also creating the helmet rule just to protect her own identity since she's probably been wanted by old Mandalore, the Republic, then the Empire, and now the New Republic and Remnants. She's completely on-the-run from every side. Maybe, one or some of the Children walked in on her with her helmet off and she just had to kill everyone.

    And this leads to what are her goals for Din? He's clearly her favorite. If she has ulterior motives for herself, why send Din and the Child out to find Yoda's kind and/or Jedi? Surely, she'd know that the more Mando learns, the closer he'll come to finding out contrary information to what the CoW have indoctrinated into Foundlings. This makes me think there's something particularly special about Din and his background, that makes him special to the Armorer. Maybe he's part of an important line as well, a tool that she needs to regain power for herself.

    I'm leaning closer and closer to the Rook Kast identity theory.
     
  2. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval TV Screaming Service / FFS! star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    I can see that.
    All of it.
     
  3. Generational Fan

    Generational Fan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2015
    I hope all of this plays like this @Tan-Wessel, I like this alot.

    It would certainly set things up for future seasons and it pits Din right in the middle between the two or more factions. Somehow, it may even draw Boba back into the mix as some sort of mentor; particularly if Jango does turn out to be a Mandalorian in the end from some other clan and he told Boba about how his clan were percieved and treated.

    There is so much the story-tellers can do with what you said @Tan-Wessel - and hopefully it is whats going on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
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  4. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    This is the way... but which way?
    Love this character.. she rocks
     
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  5. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/All-Around Good Guy star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    I am more surprised someone didn't already make this thread
     
  6. Tan-Wessel

    Tan-Wessel Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2001
    I was surprised too. I checked every page three times before committing.
     
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  7. The Chalk Jedi

    The Chalk Jedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2019
    Is evil...
     
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  8. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    I don't think she will turn out to be a bad guy or have some dark secret. Mandalore is gone. The mandalorians are scattered. There will be some extremists that will take a religion too far in order to hold on too it. And ain't it described as the old ways? So its not exactly new. It just reverting back to not to a prime state in order to survive.

    The armorer seems fairly supportive of Din and his quest so i do not think she is hiding anything. She says he must seek out the jedi who knew of the mandalorians. So i do not think she is hiding anything.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  9. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    She might have also been kept in the dark. OR she’s slowly revealing things to Mando as part of his training in the order. Perhaps she knows that his horizons will broaden when he comes in contact with the Jedi (or other Mandos out there), and she’s testing him to see how he reacts. We’ll see.
     
  10. clone commander bossk

    clone commander bossk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2019
    I believe she has the interests of Mandalore at heart, as she said their secrecy is their survival. She cares about Din and Baby Yoda, why else would they give up their secrecy to save him?
     
  11. Tan-Wessel

    Tan-Wessel Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2001
    It's mainly the line from Bo about "Don't believe everything that you hear" in regards to Mandalore being uninhabitable and cursed. The Armorer would have to be younger to be in the dark like Din. If she's older, then she was part of Maul's DW/Super Commandos and knows the true reality of everything.

    As it stands now, she's either Certain Point of View-ing Din, like @Bor Mullet suggests like a test, or it's sinister and self-serving propaganda, because she's actively and knowingly telling lies to all the CoW.
     
  12. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2004
    ^ Yes, I believe its one of those two things.
     
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  13. Meeko Ghintee

    Meeko Ghintee Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2015
    It is interesting that she has the Maul horns on her helmet. At first it made me wonder whether the Children of the Watch were a Maul loyalist faction of Death Watch but then I remembered they had a Viszla member.
     
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  14. godisawesome

    godisawesome Sequel Trilogy Manager star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Thinking of ways the Armorer could be made horrifying enough to earn retroactive creepiness in previous dialogue (just let me indulge a little bit here)...

    There was only a very brief time when the Separatists and the Blue-themed Death Watch under Viszla clashed; the period between their Season 2 and Season 4 appearances. Before that they were very much allied, and after that, they mostly avoided open conflict with the major factions until Maul reorganized them with the Shadow Collective.

    And the name of the Armorer’s group to Bo-Katarn is “Children of the Watch.”

    And she vocally says she knows Din was a foundling in an ambiguous tone...

    ... Could “Children of the Watch” be another phrase for “Death Watch recruitment via deliberately staging attacks on villages to ‘rescue’ children from”?

    If you wanted to go full “Oh damn, they evil” and really discourage Din about being a Mandalorian, that might do it.
     
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  15. The Chalk Jedi

    The Chalk Jedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2019
    This all sounds pretty darn possible and compelling. I love how the show is making the audience reevaluate our beloved phrase "This is the way," as well as what we think we know about Din's past.
     
  16. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    I don't think it would be a very carefully planned out scenario to stage an attack, killing everyone. pretending to save whoever didn't die and if they happen to be a young kid who isn't shot by a droid because he is saved just before hand... then he can become part of the creed.
     
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  17. The Chalk Jedi

    The Chalk Jedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2019
    Good point, but I think we can imagine the Emperor planning such diabolical, complex designs.
     
  18. Mr Bogan

    Mr Bogan Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 28, 2016
    I still like the Armourer and feel she is, in her own way, a force for good. Mainly because she told Mando that it was his duty to: a) take the Chiild under his care; b) to deliver him to his own kind. If this isn't honourable - and selfless - I don't know what is.

    A few more random thoughts.

    Clearly the Armourer is a former Death Watch and those litle horns in her helmet probably mean she pledged her allegiance to Maul after Pre's decapitation.

    I'm not sure if Death Watch kept existing after that event or if it was dissolved under Maul's rule. However, after Maul was himself defeated, most of the Death Watch remnants stood with/under the rule of the Empire, under Gar Saxon (and, I suppose, Rook Cast).

    Did the Armourer, as a former Death Watch/Shadow Collective member, turn into being a pawn of the Empire?? I doubt it. And my guess is that a splinter group, the "Children of the Watch" came into existence.

    Don't know if they went into hiding or not during the Saxons' rule but in any case, as we all know, very close to the end of the Empire itself, Gar Saxon dies, followed soon after by his litle Saxon brother (forgot his name). Then Bo Katan accepts the DarkSaber, a few clans follow her and I suppose there's an uprising against the Empire that ends "purged in tears". Did the Armourer fight with Bo Katan? With the Empire? None of them? I'll pick the "none of them" option,

    My guess is she belongs to a group that accepted Maul and parted ways with Bo Katan when she didn't recognize the Sith as rightful ruler of the Death Watch. And then, the way I see it, she parted ways also with the Saxons/Kast puppet regime, becoming, with a small group of ex-Death Watch, a completely new outcast group of traditionalists, neither aligned with the Empire nor with the rebellious Bo Katan.

    And I say this because, regardless of the "don't remove your helmet" policy, I don't recall anything she said that was repreensible. She tells Mando to deliver the Child to their own kind (funny that apparently she also has a very limited understanding of what/who the Jedi are, and that rules out her being Rook Cast as some are saying), so it's not as if "Foundlings" become property of the supposed sect.

    Also interesting is that a Vizla was part of the same group (confirming the ex-Death Watch link), and do remember how his hate for the Empire was unmistakable (this reinforces my feeling that the Armourer was never a Gar Saxon acolyte).

    My two cents ... with a disclaimer at the end ;)

    DISCLAIMER: I can be sadly wrong. Even Fenn Rau worked for the Empire so ... I guess we have to wait to know what will be revealed. :p
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  19. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    The horns could just be an older style, but her being Death Watch affiliated really clinches it in favor of her being a Mauldalorian herself or a descendant of one. Her dialogue about their history and the Jedi is problematic, but that could be also explained away that she's lying or telling partial truths. Also why would only Bo-Katan, a long way from Mandalore, be running around the outer rim worlds looking for the darksaber and no one else out've the Mandos is? Makes no sense to me.


    Well its very strange how that many The Tribe Mandalorians died at the hands of the Empire last season, since the Imperials on this show suck and their weapons and tactics largely impotent to comical. On top of that Beskar armor is also this shown to be near invincible to basically any small arms blaster fire shot at it. Djarin even took several direct hits from the MG-34 style heavy repeater and did not needed medical care or bacta. Are we to believe only that E-Web alone could and did wipe out that many Mandalorians. This point is made stranger since there was no wounded left, and its only possible some survived, the Armorer for whatever reason was unsure herself. Maybe Gideon has an arc pulse weapon and used it on the Beskar, but how are Bo-Katan's pirates still on Trask, they should've been wiped like the Mandalorians on Navarro by now and these Mandos were actually assaulting Imperials not living in a sewer taking Bounty Hunter gigs one at a time.

    Another strange thing is that The Tribe settled on Navarro, since this place has always been Imperial occupied and even resisted an alliance shock trooper invasion force. Why are they there - which so happens to also be a major science lab base and Gideon with the darksaber also just happens to oversee. Was the tribe gonna attack the base at some point, and was that supposed to be just a staging area. Since the Tribe came out to help Djarin, did Gideon just decide on the dime "Mandos lets wipe them out." Secret Imperial base and Secret Mandalorian base on the same planet is kinda awkward. On top of that there was a lot of Beskar laying arround and collected from the dead, it did not seem like Gideon cared about the metal, which is problematic since this metal is so special, valuable and many are always trying to kill Djarin and others like him just for their metal.

    I don't think her being on Navarro was a coincidence but you never know.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
  20. Jaxxon-

    Jaxxon- Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2014
    I fully believe that she is evil.
     
  21. DannyD

    DannyD Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Whoa, steady on there Father Karras! :)
     
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  22. godisawesome

    godisawesome Sequel Trilogy Manager star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    The fact her response to Din’s query about the Jedi was to cite some old Saga from the ancient past, instead of citing anything from the Clone Wars era, might imply either she’s much younger than we think she is, and much closer to being peer of Din... or she’s on some level willfully under delivering on a massive amount of useful knowledge and critical thinking.
     
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  23. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Well, its odd how Djarin is surprised to learn he's a "Child of the Watch", he cannot even connect that to those that saved him. Was like he never heard of Death Watch, or knew about the reigning Mandalorians that raised him on Mandalore and in their ways.

    And was not like Bo-Katan told him she used to be a member of Death Watch either, and attempted to kill Jedi before. Moreover Death Watch in their Pre Vizsla colors fighting Separatists likely would've occurred while Bo-Katan was a member. So she'd would've also been supporting the "Children of the Watch" at the time, same kinda issue for her Mando partners, they didnt seem to view Children of the Watch or Death Watch in a good view despite all three of them were likely ex-members, namely of course Bo-Katan,

    Its possible Death Watch fighting the CIS could've been that short period when Pre wanted revenge on Dooku or was a ruse created by Pre, or at the interim period before they switched to Maul's colors but could've already been under his rule..
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
  24. DurararaFTW

    DurararaFTW Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2014
    I now think that Din's rescue happened after Maul's duel with Pre, just like Bo these guys didn't accept his rule but instead of joining Bo they broke off even more completely and started gathering kids to start their own little offshoot.
     
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  25. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Well its also possible those Maul colored Super Commandos they focused on TCW were basically Maul's equivalent of EU's Death Watch Bloodguards , his elite personal guard of soldiers. While other generic members of Death Watch kept their Vizsla blue and grey style uniforms and emblem . We even see Almec sporting a more fancy version of Season II Death Watch armor but he did not wear Maul's pattern like others. Almec was also the figurehead of Mandalore, while most people outside of Death Watch and Shadow Collective did not know Maul ruled.

    As I see it right now, this is just conscription and sounds a lot like the First Order, they recruit younglings/foundllings to be raised by the military and pressed into service. This case its Death Watch .

    Is "Children of the Watch" an official name, or just a term Ko-Katan and her group uses whenever they encounter types like Djarin. These types are outsiders and wearing Mandalorian armor and following some creed not even Death Watch followed. But the fact remains that Djarin was recruited into Fighting Corps and would've been around Death Watch since both he and them were registered on Mandalore:


    Din Djarin: I haven't heard that name spoken since I was a child.

    Greef Karga: On Mandalore?

    Din Djarin: I was not born on Mandalore.

    Greef Karga: But you're a Mandalorian.

    Cara Dune: Mandalorian isn't a race.

    Din Djarin: It's a Creed.

    [ Flashback to Din Djarin's childhood, where he is seen carried by his father, accompanied by his mother, as they flee from droids shooting everyone in sight. His parents put him in an underground storage and close the hatch. Then an explosion. A droid opens the hatch, but before it can kill him, it gets shot and destroyed. A Mandalorian pulls him out, and he watches a squad of Mandalorians fight the droids. Then the man who saved him, takes him away, leaving the fighting behind. ]

    Din Djarin: I was a foundling. They raised me in the Fighting Corps. I was treated as one of their own. When I came of age, I was sworn to the Creed. The only record of my family name was in the registers of Mandalore. Moff Gideon was an ISB Officer during the purge. That's how I know it's him.

    Cara Dune: That's how he knows who we all are.

    Another issue that Death Watch was on Carlac, they had enslaved all the Ming-Po women, to be used and servants and presumably to breed with them and replenish their numbers and all of that kinda thing. Lux Bontari also planned to join Death Watch but in what capacity is unknown but he could've taken the creed.


    Also another interesting cavet also exists, being that Bo-Katan is a Mandalorian by race, while Djarin is one by only by some kinda creed given to what so far amounts to orphans to help make up their numbers. This is also contrary to Bo-Katan's outburst:




    So I don't think Bo-Katan would view Death Watch and a Death Watch created Lebensborn-like program in a good light, being that she's their enemy. Its also not even clear what or why exactly The Convert was on Navaro for, or why they were hiding in the sewers for despite the Empire already defeated. Was Death Watch fighting and insurgency against the Empire there prior or something we just do not know much right now.

    In Star Wars Galaxies, Death Watch actually did something similar and this game might offer hints and clues as what they were up to during the Galactic Civil War and on Navarro:

    Death Watch Bunker Endor:

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Death_Watch_bunker

    And the Armorer might be the equivalent of this character:


    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Unidentified_Death_Watch_Overlord

    Probably these Children of the Watch are basically like the Night's Watch from GOT, so basically bastards and orphans children that take an oath by swearing an oath of duty despite whatever their origins, all under the Death Watch banner and pressed into a harsh service where they would live and die. This helmet thing is always a big talking point, but it may be recent addition added by Maul or whoever took over Death Watch following the Siege or somehow both.

    The Armorer I do think is key. She might be Maul's foundling or she might actually be a true Death Watch member( and maybe Force sensitive herself).
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020