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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

The Art of Fight Choreography

Discussion in 'Fan Films, Fan Audio & SciFi 3D' started by Brodie-Wan_Kenobi, Jun 26, 2005.

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  1. GreytaleNovastar1138

    GreytaleNovastar1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Every bit of BOP I and BOP II has been a workout. It is definitely extreme, and as far as I can tell... visually captures "wow, these guys look like they're in danger" just fine... minus most of the bruises.

    This isn't to say some mistakes are made... but that is the POINT. To preserve the actors bodies, the choreography is safe 90% of the time (with the exception of "swing through" moves).

    I looked at the Crimson Flame choreography (and I'm now referring to the "fast" takes of it, not the slow rehearsal stuff)... I like the intensity, but it still seems like a lot of hits are "pulled". Which is to be expected if you're maintaining safety!

    So... I don't really think our systems are all that different in looking at the result you have... although naturally there are differences. It does also appear that you are mostly aiming for targets which is a good thing in my opinion--with the exception of a few beat attacks, which are normal...
     
  2. VaporTrail

    VaporTrail Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    No, that's not it. I like Laszlo's lecturing style. It was mildly humorous, and pretty easy to watch and understand his concepts. He kept it interesting, for me at least.

    -Vaportrail
     
  3. Laszlo

    Laszlo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2006
    You should check out my cooking show then. [face_cowboy]
     
  4. GreytaleNovastar1138

    GreytaleNovastar1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2005
    It's been awhile since I saw anything on here, so I figured to bump this, and share the full teaser video to BOP II.

    BOP II (full teaser) -- http://youtube.com/watch?v=h0YZavS8-nI

    I'm still waiting on the complete "pro" footage from BayCon... apparently they had four good cameras running, so I'm not sure how that will all go down. I may have to cut it together myself, or scrap any ideas of cutting it all up and stay with one camera if possible. I won't know until I see it. I don't really know how to cut together footage anyhow, so I suppose we'll see. Besides, I really want to stick with the feel of it being 100% live, and not cutscene it at every turn.

    If you have any suggestions, feel free to PM me on here or youtube or whatever... but no need to de-rail the thread.

    Anyone direct or act in any fun and unique staged combat projects lately?
     
  5. UberTom

    UberTom Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Hello all, I haven't been on the forums in quite a while, and am itching to have some intelligent conversation. I've been choreographing a duel for some time now, I'm not sure when it will be shot but I'd like to share my choreographing method to see what others think. Bear in mind that I'm in high school and have no training in any kind of swordfigting whatsoever.

    Anyway, here's how I come up with ideas. First I come up with a first move. It can be anything, preferrably something dramatic to "kick off" the fight. Then, my partner and I freeze, and brainstorm out loud what would be the most strategically advantageous move for each of us. After some deliberation, we'd carry out this move, and then freeze and repeat the process until we have a sequence of several moves. This is excellent for filling in the gaps between your "big" moves, as it makes the choreography unrepetetive and totally original. Often we'll get an idea for a particular sequence that we feel would look cool to the audience, so we'll use this process until we see an opening to put this sequence in. It takes a long time, but I find it efficient because if you just take the time to think about it you can get good choreography on your first attempt rather than suffering from a sort of writers block. As I said, I've had no formal training, but this often gives me good results. I read quite a bit of this thread, but I haven't seen anyone mention something similar to this.

    Also, I usually assign a lightsaber Form to each duelist. I realize this thread isn't about the Forms, but I will say that they give each fighter a character and a theme, and help in coming up with choreography.
     
  6. VaporTrail

    VaporTrail Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Ha.
    You sure you're in the right place? :p

    Your method sounds pretty much like how it's done on my end. That strategy works best when you're up against someone who doesn't have a whole lot of experience. "Alright, from there what's your opening?" Your partner attacks, or blocks yours, and you fancy it up as necessary.

    It's not always as easy as you make it sound, but it works. I'm not sure how you're developing a fight while assigning forms, though. Does that mean one guy will focus of hitting hard, two-handed while another might be more flashy with lots of spins and they try to think like that?
    I dunno.. I have a general idea of how a character should fight, but when it comes down to it I just worry about what looks cool, and what's within the range of realism.

    -Vaportrail
     
  7. UberTom

    UberTom Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 9, 2007
    What I mean to say is that if a character has a choice between two different moves, their Form will normally determine which they will choose. For example, if a character has a choice between blocking a blow or jumping it, a Form III will block while a Form IV will jump. Even if the chorography is excellent, a Form, or even a real-world style like kendo, gives the duelists a character rather than just having two people doing a series of moves.

    If it has to do with Star Wars, its intelligent conversation. ;)
     
  8. Covert-Sniper

    Covert-Sniper Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2006
    It sounds to me like you have a good philosophy going.[face_idea]
     
  9. searchingforavoice

    searchingforavoice Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 13, 2006
    I seem to run into problems not in the choreography of a fight, but in the execution.
    Example:
    Me- Okay so your first move is *insert random move here*
    Other guy-......huh? oh.... kay
    me-alright lets do this.
    other guy- wait, whats my first move then?
    me- *splodes*

    as i once uttered to Bgii2000, "if only i had some trained martial artists.........."

    so long way around, is there some sort of mystical government top secret method of communicating choreography that has been found to work better than words?
     
  10. UberTom

    UberTom Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 9, 2007
    If I have difficulty explaining a move to my partner, I teach him my move and we switch spots. It helps him better understand because he sees it from my point of view. It also helps to demonstrate it in slow motion.
     
  11. GreytaleNovastar1138

    GreytaleNovastar1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Numbered targeting system (as a basis--not a limitation).
    Acting (intention, obstacle, mood, strong fighter, weak fighter, etc.)
    Big emphasis on footwork.
    No "form" as the best form, since it doesn't "limit" someone's thinking into "hey, your character wouldn't do that" garbage.

    Additionally, as a choreographer, you are usually setting up the work ahead of time and bringing it to actors/performers who THEN have to "make it their own" and bring it to life. It helps if you know what you're doing so that what you ask of the actors--is actually possible.
     
  12. GreytaleNovastar1138

    GreytaleNovastar1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Well, BOP II is finally here. Enjoy!

    Instead of me bothering to post a link--just use my signature below to see the performance.

    Hold on to your hats for a wild (100% live) ride.
     
  13. GreytaleNovastar1138

    GreytaleNovastar1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2005
    This is just plain SICK if you like fight choreography in general, or props of all kinds.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7olVBHya9Xo

    Erv and I have put together some pretty cool stuff, so... have a look! You won't be disappointed... :)
     
  14. VaporTrail

    VaporTrail Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    That is one trippy hilt. Why the weird sounds? I guess I don't get what this thing is for.

    -Vaportrail
     
  15. ElectroFilms

    ElectroFilms Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2007
    stage fighting maybe a use? (anyone else always type the word "use" backwards?)

    anyways, i can't wait to get a lightsaber that sounds like a chain saw!:)
     
  16. VaporTrail

    VaporTrail Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Go download the lightsaber mod for the original Doom. Lightsaber replaces the chainsaw, but not the sounds for it.
    I wouldn't be surprised if that was the inspiration here, actually.

    -Vaportrail
     
  17. GreytaleNovastar1138

    GreytaleNovastar1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2005
    The driver board is made to power Luxeon LED sabers--such as the ones seen in Balance of Power, or used in general by folks who enjoy staged combat with sabers. Here is an older video of Erv's earlier v1.2 board in action:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmCMZoERsns

    The current board version is 2.5, although v2.61 is on its way. There are plenty examples out there regarding Crystal Focus, so if you're interested--you need only search on youtube, and look up Erv's account (I think it's Irvinplecter).

    Vaportrail mentioned not understanding what the driver board is for--they are for staged combat, and Erv's driver board is programmable, so you install any types of sounds you like. The "weird" fonts are simply for fun and variety. Additional fonts I created are a "steel sword" sound set and also a more unique saber sound I called the "Ancient Saber" font. The idea was, again, to get some VARIETY out there, not just the same old Ben Burtt sounds all the time. As cool as they were/are.

    The Plecter board does require some soldering/wiring/circuitry knowledge--but not much. Unless you have him make an entire saber from the ground up for you.
     
  18. GreytaleNovastar1138

    GreytaleNovastar1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Wow, this thread is dead as.... dead. Let's liven it up a bit!

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=fpivevfZgmQ

    Anyone seen this? It's a shame they didn't "make it" to the finals. And, sweet--it looks like Ultra (Alex) was able to support them with some stellar Luxeon sabers. Niiiiice. Now... I only wish I had THIS kind of budget / lighting / 5+ days a week to give / giant team each with their own role... kind of thing going for BOP I & II!!! Uh... and III for that matter. Well, probably the same for IV come to think of it. Hmm... uh-oh. :)
     
  19. GreytaleNovastar1138

    GreytaleNovastar1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Dec 8, 2005
    Nobody with any comments on that last video? Wow... Well... *I* for one thought it was pretty great.
     
  20. GreytaleNovastar1138

    GreytaleNovastar1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Another bump to this thread.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=7OQRAbt5z2Q

    For those hoping to add some flair and panache to their stage fighting--the above should be a good example for noteworthy prop-makers who want to push the line a bit and go for "interactive" props vs. simple sticks & steel.

    Finally, BOP III is underway and the battling is coming along quite magnificently! I can barely wait until we get this one out for people to see, yet... I'm still hoping we'll have enough time to get it done without being rushed.
     
  21. Covert-Sniper

    Covert-Sniper Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Hey thats pretty cool. I like all the different sounds you were able to get in there. Oh, and I watched the video a few posts above, that was pretty good, probably the best 3 on 1 fight in that one part.
     
  22. Laszlo

    Laszlo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2006
    I suppose I can point to Joyous Guard as my example of sparring + choreo as a departure from my typical fight scenes, though if you guys try and get stabbed in the eyes yoursevles it's not my problem.

    [face_whistling]
     
  23. Azmi-wan_Kenobi

    Azmi-wan_Kenobi Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2004
    yo peeps!

    my choreography group did these....

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4318325320378608933
     
  24. GreytaleNovastar1138

    GreytaleNovastar1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Well... same old "reviving the thread" thing here, but... no worries. That's how it goes sometimes.

    Saber Makers Choreo Competition... The S.M.A.C.C. D.O.W.N.S.!!

    Saber Makers Annual Choreography Competition...
    Dueling Only With NON-rotoscoped Sabers

    ...hopefully the idea will be solidified more as the months progress. Keep your eyes open for more, and feel free to post suggestions about having this kind of competition!

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=LyxlEEyqw-M

    After hearing much ado about the Force FX challenge that Master Replicas put together for C4 (which ended up getting "extinguished" by LFL & the C4 organizers for whatever reason), I had been brewing this idea for awhile... hoping to INCLUDE as many lightable saber wielders as possible. After all... the MR Force FX challenge was available ONLY to those with.... (drumroll)... Force FX sabers. How surprising. I thought it fitting to simply say... look... if it lights up decently and it is not roto-scoped... it's a differing challenge / concept from roto + post work for fan films. We'll see if anyone out there is privy to something like this.

    Hope everyone had a great Valentine's Day + President's weekend.
     
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