Arena "The Beautiful Game" - The Official JCC Football (Soccer) Thread.

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And they can bottle finals & league titles under him like they did under Spurs with his loser mentality.

I'd rather have Allegri

 

You also like Ole, so...

 

You do realise that Spurs didn't try for the league or FA cup during his tenure because the board effectively told him not to bother and to only focus on the League and Europe?

He lost to Liverpool in the CL Final when Liverpool were by far one of the best teams in the world at the time

The team fluffed their lines during the Leicester season but he'll get more of a tune out of United long term that Solskjaer ever will.

I've said it before, I like Solskjaer, I can see what he's trying to do but I'm at the stage now where his tactical "masterstrokes" just look like flukes but his losses to teams like the Turkish one last week is inexcusable. The first goal is just total tactical naivete and that sits with the manager not drilling the team properly followed by an utter mess up on pitch.


You'll not move Solskjaer on and you'll miss out on both Poch and Allegri (future at Barca IMO).

It's just all so lolworthy

 

Poch would come in, ask for players in several positions to help challenge for the league, not get most of them and then be forced to make what he has work as he did at Spurs. He'll struggle to offload overpaid players and he'll suffer with the team because of that. He won't get further than Ole will, so why waste money giving the guy a payout for another manager that won't work?
Apart from getting to a final, what has Poch done that suggests he can make this team play better consistently? Get Top 4? Ole did that already.

I guarantee he won't take this team anywhere that Ole wouldn't if he could get consistency. The players have to help him out though, instead of quitting when games are too hard because paycheques matter more than the badge.

 

Allegri would come in, ask for players in several positions to help challenge for the league, not get most of them and then be forced to make what he has work. He'll struggle to offload overpaid players and he'll suffer with the team because of that. He won't get further than Ole will, so why waste money giving the guy a payout for another manager that won't work?

Same issue for Allegri, the only difference is that Allegri did get the players he wanted at Juve so that in some respects is a tick for Poch because he improved players whereas Allegri bought




Apart from getting to a final, what has Poch done that suggests he can make this team play better consistently? Get Top 4? Ole did that already.
Took Southampton from being regular relegation battlers and general cannon fodder to a team that was threatening and dangerous
Took a very inconsistent Spurs team to be a regular in the top four AND title challengers whilst improving the players, implementing an effective and attractive style of play.

Ole lucked out last season with his top 4 place. Don't get me wrong, he did a great job getting United to play well after the restart but as well as United played lines up with how the teams above imploded.

Also Poch know the league and has managed 2 prior teams very effectively (with minimal budget) and has a solid reputation which player will look up too
Ole managed Cardiff.... Badly

I guarantee he won't take this team anywhere that Ole wouldn't if he could get consistency. The players have to help him out though, instead of quitting when games are too hard because paycheques matter more than the badge.

This I don't disagree with but Poch and Allegri will come in with an effective management aura. Solskjaer has a fine reputation as a striker but his managerial history is spotty at best. Poch's record will help here, if it doesn't then what is Allegri going to do any different?


Both Poch and Allegri are a significant upgrade on Solskjaer. To think Poch isn't is just delusional[/i]

 

^and Burt liked Ole as a manager.

 

So, here I am, a broken record.

Manchester United are not typically a title challenging side, they are at their natural level, historically speaking.

 

Not quite true.

Its just cyclical. Liverpool were the first uber dominant team in the UK but United are on a par, all other clubs sweep up when these two.clubs have an off season.



Looking at.league positions, Liverpool were more consistent in positions pre WW1 and won the league twice. United started in league 2 but also.won the league twice

After WW1 United dropped out of L1 and Liverpool won the league twice then dropped into mid table mediocrity.

After WW2 Liverpool again won the league then dropped into L2 and United had the Busby era.

United then went cack again for around 20 to 30 years whilst Liverpool were dominant then Liverpool went cack for around 20 to 30 years whilst United went dominant.

It looks broadly even its just that when United went cack they really went cack and have 4 relegations to liverpools 1


United are now.going through their Roy Evans period, they've got a nice guy in charge steeped in the traditions of the club, they're hopeful it'll work but anyone without sentiment can see it just won't. He's had his time and unfortunately for Ole he's been found wanting just.like Roy was.
United need to be bold, make a change for an established effective manager or.else they'll truly become liverpool of the 90s and face 20 to 30 years of mediocrity and they're 7 years into it already.

But Poch isn't the answer apparently because he's never won a cup or a title.
Remind me how many final Jurgen lost before he finally won a cup?

 

Remind me how many years it took Klopp to win a trophy at Liverpool?
The club stuck with him because they believed in his vision and they backed it. That paid off.

Ole has a better record after 100 games in charge Vs Klopp at Liverpool. Will he get 4 years and numerous finals to get to where Klopp has? Unlikely.
Certainly not without more improvements to the team.
If he'd had everyone he wanted & still failed I'd certainly say the primary problem is him & bring in someone else.

But when managers say that in order to improve on their 3rd place finish they want an elite CB, CDM & RW & instead get a 33 year old striker, 2 unproven youth wingers, a creative midfielder & a LB (neither of which were first choice options) that's not showing ambition or support.
Ole isn't Ferguson, he can't make average players (like Fred & McTominay) into title winners & it's unfair to expect that.

What does Poch do if Matic can't play? Who in the team can the CDM role? Ole tries McTominay because he has no-one else but it's obvious that isn't going to work (and it creates problems in games that put United on the back foot. Not a tactical problem, it's a personell problem). If the club won't get him the right players in the right positions he'll be forced to do what Ole is currently doing.

At least let Ole try to do it with the right people in place before blaming him for the fact the team can go undefeated for 19 games then down tools when they lose a couple of games. If Ole got in more players he wanted with the attitude of Bruno who weren't forced to play out of position then the quality & desire would improve.

United have tried proven quality managers with great CVs already. They couldn't get it done either.

 

Pressure is also important.

Shaw got no assists in 2019 or this year up until the last 2 games.
Why had he suddenly improved his offensive ability? Pressure. Telles is here now, he will take Shaw's place if Shaw doesn't do better going forward.

De Gea was poor for 18 months at least. He's been good since the start of this season, playing like he used to.
Why? Because Henderson is here. De Gea knows if he kept on as he was he'd be dropped, so he put more effort in.

AWB was not good after restart in July up to the recent international break.
Now he seems like he was. Is that because he knows Williams can take his place if he doesn't improve?

If the forwards had that kind of pressure on them,maybe they would be more consistent.
Rashford doesn't worry about Dan James replacing him, Martial isn't bothered by Cavani or Ighalo replacing him because they won't.
Would Sancho in the squad change that? I think he would.

VDB should put pressure on Pogba & other midfielders to fight for their position, but since Ole doesn't seem to want to play the guy that isn't currently working.
That's why depth matters, otherwise players get complacent.

 

By that logic no team is, Liverpool included. take the 70s and 80s away from your team and you’re looking pretty historically ***** too.

 

Is the BBC being a bit premature here, or is Mourinho getting his groove back?

Tottenham: Is Jose Mourinho gearing up for Premier League title challenge? - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54866406

Spurs certainly look a better unit under him, but still very dependent on Kane & Son. Maybe Spurs can go far if those two stay fit & firing, but that's not likely for the whole season

 

Difference is, you’ve had three title winning managers total. Liverpool had three in one decade.

Rich, Klopp was given time because he was proven. Ole certainly is not and any comparison is ridiculous. But, first hundred games. lol.

and if you think these tactics are sound, there is no hope for you.



Ole has shown himself to be weak (parking spot) and in his post match at the weekend he sounded unhinged.

So I agree with you, keep him for a long, long time.

 

who cares

 

/Luke pic

 

United's stick around longer, which is a good thing.
Proven doesn't always mean much. LVG & Mourinho were both proven. Klopp won 2 titles in Germany & got to a CL Final. Why does that grant him a 5 year exemption when managers with way more trophies don't get that?
Because the Liverpool board saw the signs something was happening & supported Klopp to see how far he could take it.
Poch got a similar amount of time & couldn't succeed, although he didn't get the same support from his club that Klopp did.

If Ole has done better 100 games in, are there not signs that he's also on track to get the team success if he's given the same support & timeframe?
He isn't going to get that

And if Ole is so "unhinged" when talking about unfair scheduling why do Klopp & Pep agree with him?

 

Yes, there were signs of progress under Klopp. There are not under Ole.

I didn’t say the subject matter was wrong, the way he went about it sounded unhinged. Complain about it pre match, post match enjoy the win.

 

Klopp & Pep both complained about it post match.

There are signs of progress under Ole, the problem is they aren't consistent.

He improved the defence last season vs the season before. Martial & Rashford both had their best scoring season. Players who looked like a waste of space under Jose, like Fred & Matic, were significantly better last season.
You can't go 19 games unbeaten, end the season with 2 losses in 25 games and have one of the best defensive records in Europe's Top 5 leagues if you don't know what you're doing or how to organize a team.

 

Title winning managers.

One person winning titles for 20 years is better than 3 managers winning in one decade.
Stability.

Not that changing managers can't work for some teams, Chelsea have continued to be consistently successful despite having a lot of managers since Roman took over

 

Why the hell are we even playing international football in the middle of a pandemic? It's ridiculous.

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