ST The cinematography of The Force Awakens - Based on the teaser trailer

Which is why I am talking about the usage of visual language as opposed to cinematography alone in my post. Whether via art direction, production design and cinematography, it can all affect how the final product look on screen. People have been complaining about the prequels because in regards to production design, it looks too shiny and new to them. So there has been a dislike of the films based on the fact that it looks "different".

However, in my opinion, what is more important for Star Wars is not to retain the similar production design, but retaining the same general style of cinematography used in previous film. I've argued a number of times that it is because Star Wars was designed to be a space opera, it must retain the cinematographic style that makes it feel operatic.

Shakey-cam and overuse of colour grading drastically affect how operatic the final product looks.

If it is really about that, it won't be shot as a film in the first place. It's annoying that people often tend to forget that Star Wars is primarily driven by visuals as opposed to mere traditional storytelling.



Just look at the lightsabre duels in the prequels. Camera is stationary and is often zoomed out to present the duelist fighting against a massive backdrop. Together with the use of the choir, it makes those scenes operatic while retaining the sense of action and energy.

 

I'm "cherry picking" because you're arguing a bunch of things that I never claimed.

I'm glad you've got that ESB book, I have it too.

I know that Lucas did not demonstrate the same respect for the craft of writing because he did not work nearly as hard on the scripts to the prequels as he did on the originals. Had he worked as hard, I believe, the results would have been to a similar standard. Again, this is by way of saying, "George Lucas is talented, but he spread himself too thin while making the prequels. Had he devoted all of his efforts to any one of the tasks he assigned himself, and allowed other talented and creative people to handle the other roles, the films would be better." This is all I am saying.

And even with all of those duties you've listed, none of those really have anything to do with the actual task of directing.

Yes, screenwriting is hard. Anyone who has attempted to write a script should know this first hand. I could go into all of the reasons why I think the prequels are awful scripts, but this isn't a thread about why the prequels are bad, whether or not George Lucas is talented or not, or any other thing you want to argue with me about. I mean, I'm trying to stay positive here, but really, what's your point?

I'm happy to give Lucas all the credit he deserves. I know that he's a great, generous man, and I wish him all the best. I think that the treatment he received from die hard Star Wars fans who transformed their disappointment with the prequels into unwarranted anger towards him is shameful, and I am and always have been critical of that segment of our fan community.

If you want to continue a discussion with me, I'll be happy to respond to a PM, but our little back and forth has gotten sidetracked from the discussion about cinematography in the teaser trailer.

 

And I'd hate to be next to someone who takes the weakest of my examples that were being used to show a trend and dumping on it as if it were the only example I brought up. But I guess you're in good company because you weren't the only user on here to do it.

 

Consider why so many fans enjoy the look of the Abrams teaser over the look of TPM. You've really given the answer in your last two posts: most people find consistency in art direction more important than consistency in cinematography. Consistency in art direction tells you you're in the same universe, and that's the key point here.

 

And there's more to visuals than just cinematography. Further, there's room for new techniques. If Star Wars were still using stop motion animation for its major action scenes, it'd get laughed at.

 

It does. But not all new techniques should be applied to Star Wars. What we have seen so far are things that I think shouldn't be in place for a Star Wars movie.

Take colour grading for instance. All the SW films, including the prequels had a rich range of colours, without different colours being used to convey different moods at different point of the film.

Here is some of the colour bar for the 6 films:
Ep I



Ep 2:


Ep 3:



Ep 4:



Ep 5:



Ep 6:






And this is Star Trek: Into Darkness by JJ

 

I think one of my hangups during this whole discussion has been trying to narrow down precisely what people mean when they use terms like "visual language," and reconcile that with the terms I have encountered in my studies.

Filmmakers will often compare directing a scene to writing a sentence, with individual shots replacing the words. In this sense, shots are a director's vocabulary. Editing determines the rhythm, the pace, and quite often the meaning of these shots, so in a way, editing is like punctuation. Within each of these shots, directors have an almost infinite set of variables - color, contrast, composition, blocking, etc.

I suppose, in a broad sense, any single visual element of a film could be part of a "visual language" at work in these films, but I think that each film is slightly different in terms of its style and tone.

 

I think the cinematography in TFA teaser is beautiful.........

 

Exactly. Like I said earlier, ESB is very different visually from ANH, especially in the lighting. To pretend that all six films are visually apiece is, IMHO, disingenuous.

 

Those "color bars" for the films had me seriously wondering what the hell happened to my monitor and why are the images loading so weirdly.

Then I read the post.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but read through "The Making of TESB" and then read Brackett's screenplay online, and I think you'll agree with me. Imagine that Brackett screenplay tells the storyline of the movie "The Black Crystal" (just choosing that at random), then imagine GL looking at it, and thinking, "This is nothing at all what I wanted." Having the script for "The Black Crystal" wouldn't have helped GL write his draft. All GL would've realized was "This is nothing like the script I want, just like the other 100,000 script out there are nothing like what I want." Furthermore, the few ideas that appear in Brackett's screenplay and GL's were those that GL gave Brackett in the 1st place.

In fact, I just read over a summary of Brackett's screenplay and GL's notes for her. Actually a big storyline in it is Luke's reunion with the ghost of his father (not Vader) and together they swear to defeat the bad guys, including Vader, after reciting some weird Green Lantern, so the Vader/Luke Father/Son thing wasn't even there. Apart from that difference, it's actually pretend hard to describe how one story is not an inspiration for another story, but Brackett's screenplay wasn't at all an inspiration for GL's draft in my opinion, and that's the opinion held by pretty much all the behind the scenes SW experts that I know of. Read Lucas's notes and her screenplay, and maybe you'll disagree with me, but most people don't.

 

I don't know if this is the right thread for this what of my concerns is also the addition of actors like Pip Andersen. He seems to be a super athletic and acrobatic guy. I hope they don't overdo this and get too fancy with the moves and the camerawork behind it. I'm not against new elements but please please please keep it Star Wars. If well balanced this can be a powerful addition.

 

It's fan-made. Only the teaser officially released on Friday has new footage from the actual film.

 

No, I don't want to continue our discussion. You won't respond to my points when my posts are being made in public where other people can see that you're avoiding the main thrust of what I'm saying. If you're going to do that in a public discussion, why would I possibly think you'd act differently in a private discussion?

However, I do agree we are getting off the main topic of this thread, so it'd probably be best not to continue this discussion in any format.

 

Wow- Ford had a blue-grey jumpsuit with a name tag that said "H.SOLO" and said "you never know when you are ready, only when you are ready enough."

 

Crap, I wish I would've read this post earlier, then I would've ended my disagreement with him earlier than I did as well!

 

In what sense can you really say the production design is better than TPM? Considering that people are saying that the scenes of the sith lord looks more like something out of Game of Thrones than Star Wars, I think there are a number of people having issues with the lack of consistency. I just feel that judging from a number of post by fans, they aren't really paying too much attention to the actual teaser itself, and are simply more excited by the notion that there is a Star Wars film not shot by Lucas and has more "traditional" starfighters.

By the way, someone did some colour correction of the teaser, and I think it really helps to improve the footage to a certain degree. However, he isn't able to fixed the camera in place though.



Some colour correction scenes comparision based on the work someone has done:


http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/to...eleased-See-OP-For-Links/topic/16649/page/61/

 

Was it Ender's Game?

 

The only one that really stands out are the troopers in the ship. They definitely look white there, which I do like. I imagine though, that in whatever shots follow these, they will look white..at least in the day time. That overhead light in the cabin kinda messes with the scene. Maybe it's supposed to be an actual blue light.

The other shots I could take either way.

The shots of the xwing look different, but neither one is improved over the other, to my eyes. The snow in the sith lord shot looks purple or something to me.

 

Good to know that the clear thinking fans agree with you, and the rest are just confused.

I never said the production design was better; I said the art direction is more consistent with the OT when compared to TPM. Can this really be argued against?

Look, everyone gets it. You don't think TFA is necessary from a story POV and you don't like Abrams' directorial style. This thread is, IMHO, another backdoor way for you tp complain about this film being made at all and then finding a post hoc justification for that position. You're going to have to live with the fact that many people disagree, and it's not because they aren't as rational--it's simply because the have different tastes.

 

Because I'm not clear what your position is. You're arguing with me for the sake of arguing. I don't see a conclusion that you're building toward other than to attack me. Again, I'll politely invite you to contact me elsewhere so you can clarify your position and I'll be happy to consider any point you would like to make, and restate any position you feel like I'm ignoring.

 

Just because I disagreed with the notion to continue to the story and dislike JJ's previous work as a director does not mean I cannot judge the cinematography of the new film. I just feel that there is a need to discuss and point out to some fans that the cinematography based on what we have seen in the teaser is not like the OT despite what they claim. For those that understood the fact that they are visually different, some fans liked the change, while others don't. I am simply stating why I think it is a bad idea to use different visual language for a Star Wars movie.

The issue has been fans who attacked me simply because I am not walking on the same line as them in praising the teaser and hailing Abrams as the saviour of Star Wars based on a 88 second clip. I think those fans are the one who is confused and too blinded by their personal experience with the PT as opposed to judging the teaser fairly.

 

I've seen massively more unreasonable criticism than unreasonable enthusiasm on here, which is probably typical for any new Star Wars content.